Clutch issue

[Paul W]

Hey all,

Hoping for some words of wisdom to fix my issue.

Fired up the  S2R1000 the other day, wheeled it out of the garage, grabbed a handful of clutch....nothing. Lever comes back to the bar, and absolutely no clutch action.
Checked the reservoir... empty.

A couple of weeks prior I'd noticed some fluid under the bike, that looked like brake/clutch fluid, but it stopped and I couldn't see anything major wrong.  Went for a ride after that, all was good.  Then yesterday, no clutch.

I had a look at the slave cylinder; there was evidence of clutch fluid around it.  Pulled it off, couldn't see anything major wrong (but I am far from a mechanic!).  The seal at the back of the slave cylinder looked a tad cracked in one spot, but I am not sure if that would be the culprit or not.
I  bled the system repeatedly (refilled the reservoir at least 5 times), but could get no pressure back into  the lever.  I also hooked up a syringe onto the slave cylinder bleed valve; I noticed that it was drawing air into the syringe from the bleed valve; it seems like it is drawing air in from the clutch side of the slave cylinder.  I also can't work out how the  seal really works on the back of the slave cylinder...

So from what I can see, the leak is at the slave cylinder side of things, but  I am not sure if it's the seal between the motor and the slave cylinder, or the slave cylinder itself.

Apart from take it to the mechanic, is there any other checks or obvious hotspots/issue areas to check?  I watch a youtube video on bleeding the system and removing the slave cylinder; nothing really hard there?
 

[Two dogs]

Hi Paul
After market or OEM slave ? What year S2R ? If it is an older bike with original slave it may have reached its use by date.
Most likely seal is compromised , especially if you can see a degraded one on the outside .

I had mine fail on my MPL ,  the seal kit for it had to come from Germany would take a month to get here and was expensive
my local mechanic modified a local one to fit , still works two years later.

Sounds to me that it needs to be cracked open and a new seal kit installed.
But then again my friends know of my mechanical knowledge and expertise . So what would I know 
Dez

[Paul W]

Thanks Dez.

It's a 2005 model, and from the looks of it it's the original slave cylinder.

From a bit more reading on the interwebby, it looks like I have some options; new slave cylinder, or seal kit, and/or look at the seal at the end of the slave cylinder.

Can anyone confirm if there is a specific oring/seal/whatever between the back of the slave cylinder and the engine? Mine has more of a concertina type dust cap, and nothing else really (bar the orings on the rod later on)...

[dragonworld.]

Remove the slave cylinder and get the seals(O rings) out and take the lot down to a bearing service and you'll find that they will probably be able to supply everything you need!
Desmotimes supply a kit for these (Cheap) but unfortunately he is a Reservist in the Armed forces and has been called up so his business is closed until further notice!  

BTW check the bearing in your pressure plate! If that starts to nip up it will start spinning the pushrod which then takes out the seals in the slave cylinder! Pop it out and the bearing service will be able to supply a new one (REALLY cheap $4-$5) I replace mine regularly as a "just in case" thing! 

[Betty]

Umm ... I didn't think they made an S2R1000 in 2005 (this may make Dragon's advice a bit more complicated).

Things I have read from aftermarket suppliers (perhaps a few grains of salt are needed) suggest the stock slave cylinders are prone to failure and it is best to just replace it with a proven aftermarket jobbie. If it is a dry clutch model it will, in all likelihood, make the clutch pull easier. But I don't know what I'm talking about ... I'd get my wife to fix it.

[dragonworld.]

Umm ... I didn't think they made an S2R1000 in 2005 (this may make Dragon's advice a bit more complicated).

Things I have read from aftermarket suppliers (perhaps a few grains of salt are needed) suggest the stock slave cylinders are prone to failure and it is best to just replace it with a proven aftermarket jobbie. If it is a dry clutch model it will, in all likelihood, make the clutch pull easier. But I don't know what I'm talking about ... I'd get my wife to fix it.

yep! Didnt read the model correctly and looked more at the date (M1000DS) DOH!! My spiel is for air cooled clutches!!  Shouldnt post when  !?

[Paul W]

Hey guys
Thanks for the replies.
It is one of the earlier S2R1000; the plates state 05, but I know most people think it's the 2006 model was the earliest.
It is a dry clutch model, so I think Dragon's advice would still be correct?

[brad black]

2006 production would have started 08 or 09/05.

original slave is this style: http://www.bikeboy.org/clutch_slave_cyl.html

the seal at the back is an o-ring only.  the pre 2001 ones had the bellows.  if it has a bellows (and room for one) i'd be guessing it's an aftermarket slave.

do check the pressure plate bearing.  all dry clutches are the same there.  6201 i think, get a good brand, it's doing a job it's not designed for.  nominlly it's a 2rs or vv seal, but the ddu seals are better.  possibly not warrnted.

and the seal and needle roller bearing in the input shaft.  if the seal comes out, it will let dust into the bearing and input shaft/pushrod hole and it gets all gummy as engine oil comes up the other end and that will also spin the pushrod.

the late slaves are generally fine, and last for ever.  you can get seals, ducati brisbane had some made years ago that i have been using.  nothing available as a genuine part.

[Rowdy]

Thanks Dez.

It's a 2005 model, and from the looks of it it's the original slave cylinder.

From a bit more reading on the interwebby, it looks like I have some options; new slave cylinder, or seal kit, and/or look at the seal at the end of the slave cylinder.

Can anyone confirm if there is a specific oring/seal/whatever between the back of the slave cylinder and the engine? Mine has more of a concertina type dust cap, and nothing else really (bar the orings on the rod later on)...

I've got a STD clutch slave cylinder that's done bugger all work from my S4R you can have. Just gotta find it. PM me if you're interested.

[Paul W]

Thanks Rowdy and others for the info.
Away on holidays at the moment., so will check the seals and bearings when I get back.

[Paul W]

OK, back from holidays and into this mess again.
I took the slave cylinder off and took some happy pics; hopefully you guys can help me here.

This is the unit itself; the more I look at it the more I think it may be after market;


This is the back of the unit; none of these markings match what Brad posted;


This is a pic of the piston, with the bellows style seal shown to the side of the piston.  I can't see any orings or any other seal, bar what is at the back of the unit as shown above;


Hopefully someone can easily spot the issue here, as I have no clue.
I can't see how I can get the bearings out of the unit without forcing them out; it doesn't appear to be easily serviceable (well not with my ham fists at least).  Failing that I may need to talk to Rowdy about his unit, or an overseas one....

Any words of wisdom happily received.
Paul

[dragonworld.]

The piston is actually inside the cylinder you pulled off(Err, um) removed from the bike!

The orings 'n stuff are behind that seal! 

To remove the piston the easiest way is to GENTLY squeeze the clutch lever and it will slide out! 

[Paul W]

Well that shows my level of expertise with mechanics....
:-)
Thanks Dragonworld.  I now have the piston out of the cylinder/housing.  There's a flat o'ring seal (?) at the back of the piston, and the plastic/rubber cover at the front.  Does this front one come off?  
Or, more precisely, now that I have the piston out, what do I need to do/replace?  Looking logically at the system, the o'ring or flat rubber piece at the back of the piston is the issue here, not sealing and letting fluid past?
Paul

[dragonworld.]

a bearing service should be able to supply all of those parts!

The small outer seal is a pretty standard thing, and even the oring should be easily obtained cheaply!

[Paul W]

So, not so easy to find the o'ring and seal as we all thought...

Bearing place A sent me to hydraulic place B, but as they do hydraulics and not brake fluid they had nothing to suit.  I dropped into my mechanic, who recommended bearing place C (which was wholesale only, so another can of worms there).  They didn't have a seal to suit, but mustered up an o'ring of a similar size, but slightly different.  The guy measured it with a thingy (the  tool who's name I've forgotten) to ensure it was close, and it seems tight, but it's not exactly correct.

Home I come, with a new bottle of brake fluid.  Get some pressure into the system, but didn't keep an eye on the reservoir.  Restart the whole thing, and I am now getting pressure in the system, but there is a heap of air in there still; every time I release the bleed valve with the lever it, it burps and spits out heaps of air and fluid.  The system now has some pressure, but not enough and it's inconsistent.  I've put well over half a bottle of fluid through so far; should be enough to remove the air bubbles?

I've given up for today in frustration, and had to wash the bike as it was covered in brake fluid (yeah I know, bad Paul).

My quandary at this time is; is the new o'ring not sealing, causing the air bubbles, or have I just not flushed it through enough?  When I tried to refit the slave cylinder it wouldn't fit; I realised I had the reservoir cap on, and it wouldn't sit the piston into the housing, so that is a good sign?

Badword clutch....
 
_{picked a bad month to give up drinking}