better brakes for a 620

[ollie]

So I've come to the official conclusion that the brakes on the 620 suck!

I've had my little monster for years and have become quite attached to it, I've used it for commuting, touring, scratching through the hills on the weekends as well as the occasional track day and I've invested way too much in modding it already to even think about selling it, so I'm happy to keep spending money on it (even though it would prob make more sense to upgrade)

It's last outing was a track day a little while ago, and whilst a I had a blast I had no confidence braking late into corners, the brake lever has always felt spongy and the bike has never pulled up with much authority at all. I've always just accepted it as is and haven't really xpected too much out of the entry level monster.
Hoevever, I'm mid way through the next set of mods ar the moment (lowering gauges and light) and have run into clearance options with the stock master cylinder; I started trying to reroute lines and reangle the gauges , but then had the bright idea of getting rid of the stock m/c and getting a smaller radial mount job. But why stop p0there, let's sort out the 620s braking problems once and for all.

I want better more progressive lever feel, and a bit more strength in the way the bike pulls up. I'vem thinking at this stage
- radial m/c (brembo or nissin)
- better quality rotors
- better quality pad
- maybe this will be enough of an increas without going to 4 pot calipers??

Has anyone done this already, and if so any suggestions for what components to go with. I've had a bit of a browse on yoyodyne, but unsure of the specifics I should be looking for.

[Howie]

First step is different pads and a proper bleed after changing your brake fluid. 

A brake pad guide from our sponsor Ca Cycleworks:
http://ca-cycleworks.com/products/brakes/brake-pads

[BK_856er]

I did the 4-pot/4-pad SBK calipers, narrow-band Brembo rotors, ferodo CP211 pads, larger diameter coffin m/c and new custom lines on my M695.  Awesome braking with good feedback.  Lots of us have upgraded the brake components.  Can get expensive.  Make sure your suspension is squared away.

When you say "pulled up" do you mean bite?  You might get enough improvement with a pad type change, rotor surface hone and radial m/c.  Street pads usually don't have much bite, especially if they're glazed up and have a ton of miles.

I've never regretted my brake upgrades!

BK

[ollie]

Thanks Howie, I'll email Chris and see what he recommends also

[ollie]

I did the 4-pot/4-pad SBK calipers, narrow-band Brembo rotors, ferodo CP211 pads, larger diameter coffin m/c and new custom lines on my M695.  Awesome braking with good feedback.  Lots of us have upgraded the brake components.  Can get expensive.  Make sure your suspension is squared away.

When you say "pulled up" do you mean bite?  You might get enough improvement with a pad type change, rotor surface hone and radial m/c.  Street pads usually don't have much bite, especially if they're glazed up and have a ton of miles.

I've never regretted my brake upgrades!

BK

Thanks, yep suspension sorted - it was the first thing I did to the bike.

What did your upgrade set you back? I was just checking out calipers and m/c's - I see they don't come cheap!

[BK_856er]

Thanks, yep suspension sorted - it was the first thing I did to the bike.

What did your upgrade set you back? I was just checking out calipers and m/c's - I see they don't come cheap!

Was a long time ago.  New calipers were way cheaper then.  I went with all new components, but you can save some money with used parts.  Honestly I don't remember the total cost, but you could roughly tabulate it from yoyodyne.  A sorted out suspension will help minimize the consequences of "grabbing a handfull" with uprated brakes.  My M695 below.

BK

[Slide Panda]

Calipers like those cold be sourced from a 749 or 999 as well as the master for reduced costs. Of course you'd need to give 'em a clean and be sure you're getting something good if you go used.

Custom lines are going to needed. 

[DarkMonster620]

I started by replacing the pads to EBC HH sintered, since  you mention you would like to avoid the 4pot caliper, I will safely assume you have the 2pot small calipers, if so, get yourself 2 sets of FA181HH EBC pads, 2 M626XC wave rotors and good DOT4 fluid and your braking will improve . . . at first I only did the pads with the OEM 300mm rotors and braking improved then I replaced the OEM fluid . .  for the rear just get FA47 set of pads and if you want to replace the rotor then MD627C . . .

Now I have RCS masters, 4Pot calipers and galfer 320mm front rotors and also rear galfer

[ollie]

What advantages would 4 pot calipers offer over the stock 2 pot, assuming I have upgraded to a radial master cylinder, quality pads and rotors?

[DarkMonster620]

What advantages would 4 pot calipers offer over the stock 2 pot, assuming I have upgraded to a radial master cylinder, quality pads and rotors?

much better braking . . . You can use them with the coffin master to "start getting used to them" and then install the radial . . . If you decide to go radial, just remember the mirrors mounts unless you already have bar end mirrors!!! radials dont come with mirror mounts . . . Here, check these out:
http://www.cyclebrakes.net/AMAG026-4-1.aspx + http://www.cyclebrakes.net/AMAG026-1-4-2-1.aspx

or[if I am not mistaken, this is the ebay store of one of the sponsors]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-748-916-BREMBO-FRONT-BRAKE-MASTER-GENUINE-NEW-/121062162720?hash=item1c2fde0120&item=121062162720&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr + http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-748-916-996-KTM-APRILIA-BREMBO-BRAKE-RESERVOIR-/121061939793?hash=item1c2fda9a51&item=121061939793&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr [he sells it as a kit also, master plus reservoir + mounting]

or

http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10.8210.10

with all these application you can still use your OEM lines, just play a bit with the banjo/fitting at master and you're good to go . . . I did an evolution, went like pads then custom lines; then MS4 masters+4pot calipers then back to coffin masters to RCS master and custom lines . . . best set up, RCS + 4pot calipers with FA244HH pads . . .

Most probably you would like to even things out at the end and get this, http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10.8101.10

just shoot away any questions, I have a M620 . . . just remember, if you go from handle bar to clip ons, the lines could be "too long" or awkwardly angled[being there]

[BK_856er]

What advantages would 4 pot calipers offer over the stock 2 pot, assuming I have upgraded to a radial master cylinder, quality pads and rotors?

In my opinion, more pots can provide more even clamping and therefore potentially better feedback and more even pad wear.  The caliper design itself might also simply offer more pad options from various manufacturers due to the volume of bikes it might have been used on.  Some calipers have very limited pad options.  Similar concept with the 4-pad variant...one pad per pot and more leading edges for additional bite.  Some caliper designs are also more rigid (e.g., designs with a top bridge between the halves).  Pretty quickly you get into territory where it only realistically matters on a track at speeds/conditions that the little monsters like my M695 will never encounter.

Unless you're going for ductile iron rotors, I don't know if there's much difference between the various stainless steel types from a braking performance standpoint.  I see it as mostly a cosmetic thing, or sometimes required to pair with a particular caliper to get the right offset and diameter.  Some are definitely heavier/lighter than others and that can affect rotating and unsprung weight - try not to add weight.

...dm620 beat me to the punch...just some additional thoughts above.

BK

[Howie]

4 pot requires 320mm. rotors, not the 300s the bike came with.  Yep, 4 pot will have better bite and be less flexible than the factory floater.

[DarkMonster620]

howie, there are some 40mm 4 pots that could work on the 300mm with the adapters . .  who knows, you just woke up my mind . . .

somewhere I read someone had done it . . .

[Howie]

howie, there are some 40mm 4 pots that could work on the 300mm with the adapters . .  who knows, you just woke up my mind . . .

somewhere I read someone had done it . . .

Yeah, there are, but it would take some searching and work.  Off hand I have no idea what would work with those forks and offset.

[ollie]

Thanks for your help everyone.

I've sourced a caliper and master cylinder setup off a S4 and have ordered a set of braketech rotors off ca cycleworks.

Should be a big improvement over the stock brakes!