Engine Breaking VS Brakes

[sleepyJ]

yesterday using the front AND rear brakes saved me from crashing into the back of granny who decided it was a good idea to pull out in front of me when I was ~20 feet away. I know the rear brakes helped because I started to fish tail (controllably) I too come from a dirt background

[hbliam]

There is a rear brake?

[Cloner]

BUT unless you are at roadrace pace, the rear is a normal part or normal riding.

This is a slow day for me.  Nuff said?

[sleepyJ]

its that funny little lever that looks like your gear shifter. it took me a few rides to realize it doesn't shift too well :p

[Dirty Duc]

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=117.0

[El Matador]

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=117.0

While I'm a big advocate of riding the pace, you have to be a little wary of it depending on our goals. It took a long time and was damn hard for me to let go of the pace habits I formed when I started riding at the track.

[ducpainter]

While I'm a big advocate of riding the pace, you have to be a little wary of it depending on our goals. It took a long time and was damn hard for me to let go of the pace habits I formed when I started riding at the track.

Which might be why you're still with us.

[nickshelby500kr]

If you use your engine to brake, it will break.

[Dirty Duc]

If you use your engine to brake, it will break.

If this were true, all my vehicles would be broken... even the one automatic.

[nickshelby500kr]

Duc shifter forks are pretty bad about bending. Especially under track/ race situations.

[IdZer0]

I use engine braking all the time, also in the car, but I read an interesting remark some time ago.

After a while you start to rely on it and then imagine you hit a false neutral on track when you approach a corner at the end of a long straight.

I'm really trying not to do it anymore at the track.

[Dirty Duc]

I am a noob to motorcycle riding

And he gets lots of posts telling him how to be faster and how not to break stuff at the track...

High performance (moto and cage) engines and transmissions break. Especially under track/ race situations.

Fixed it for ya!   

In a track situation (or even a street situation), one should probably not rely on the engine to slow you down.  I've found that under hard braking for a turn, if I don't use any engine braking the bike won't shift down properly (same thing with multiple upshifts, like when you whale on it in first to the "speed limit" and then bang up two or three gears to cruise)... and I like to be in the right gear to exit right before tip in.  I know I'm in the right gear if I have used the engine during the slow-down process... although I've never been on a track on a moto.  I do not doubt that it changes the suspension dynamic.  It certainly does in a car... but what racecar driver disengages the clutch when braking for a turn?  For that matter, the reason the pro guys wiggle during decel is because of engine braking as they bang down through the gears.  They aren't only relying on engine braking, but they aren't not doing it either.

I'm even willing to bet that Cloner is doing it if you listen closely.  He's just not relying on it to slow him down and set cornering speed.

[nickshelby500kr]

While I certainly agree the fastest way to slow is using engine braking in combination with braking. The pro racers generally don't care because they have unlimited support and it will get fixed when they bend a shifter fork/ drum burn through a clutch as well as the extra wear on tires from the ass end getting squirmy under engine/ trans braking.

[Anchorism]

The rear brake accounts for 30% of your stopping power.  Although some find the rear brake is ultra sensitive, it all boils down to how well you know your bike.  I admit for a while i had a problem with my rear brake as well.  I found it to be extremely sensitive, and in a quick stop situation it locked up more often than not.  Now that the riding season is here go to a safe location and practice prior to hitting the busy roads!  Practice your quick stops, PROPER swerving skills, and stopping in a turn.  It will make your season much more pleasing. 

Now as for the engine braking, I'm not going to say if its bad for the bike or not as i have NEVER had any issues doing so.  AS A TIP, if you do prefer engine braking, lightly apply one of your brake levers to activate the rear light!  My bike engine brakes very well and i do so ALL the time.  But you can bet your ass i make sure that light comes on whilst doing so.  I find that on great riding roads, ie Johanneskreuz here for us DE riders, engine braking helps you judge the speed necessary for safe cornering.  If you come flying up to a corner that has potentially high traffic and possibly an unknown corner to you, what good does it do to go hard on the brakes last second?  Yes it might be faster, but is it exactly more safe?  I am by no means trying to tell you how to ride or what to do, simply giving you something to think about! 

[Cloner]

I'm even willing to bet that Cloner is doing it if you listen closely.  He's just not relying on it to slow him down and set cornering speed.

What he said.  The video was shot from a Panigale with EBC is turned up to maximum to make it as much like a two-stroke (little or no engine braking on a two-stroke!) as possible.  That said, it still engine brakes, and there's nothing you can do about it unless you want to pull the clutch in....and you don't want to pull the clutch in.

The rear brake accounts for 30% of your stopping power.

I challenge you to get more than 0% of your stopping power from the rear brake with the rear wheel off or nearly off the ground.  You've never seen an MSF coach as wide-eyed as the one to whom I proved this after he told me I had to use the rear brake in stopping drills.....as I nearly hit him in the face with the rear wheel....kinda like my avatar, only a bit higher and twisted to the right a bit.   

If you're riding a bike that doesn't have enough brakes to lift the rear then you might be right about that 30%.

It's easy to tell which type of bike you're riding.  Run up your speed a bit and pull the front brake as hard as you're willing.  If the front slides you can benefit from using the rear brake.  If the rear lifts concentrate on learning how to properly modulate the front brake without the rear.  If the front doesn't slide AND the rear doesn't lift, pull harder on the lever until one of 'em happens.  On ANY modern sport bike you CAN lift the rear and you're better off concentrating on proper modulation of the front during emergency stopping.