Re: Should I expect a refund from Kevin at Northern Ohio Ducati?

[abby normal]

i bought an entire bike unseen except for 'cycle trader' images ... yeah, i'm a
moron so don't bother with that comment.  i asked specifically and was told
that it was 'all original'.  when i received it, it had a destroyed upper fairing
(described as a small scratch ... you won't even notice it) and an aftermarket
brake master.  when i called them, the sales a$$ had the balls to ask me
"what did you expect, the original air in the tires?"

they have since closed, saving me a trip and the cost of a molatov cocktail.

i have since adopted a much stricter policy related to internet / mail order
purchases.  its a sad outcome, but i don't really trust people who are
selling stuff.  

[hbliam]

IMO, "good condition" is a term based on opinion and expectation.  I believe my bike is in "good condition" and would state that in an add if I was selling it, but that is for a bike that has lived in New York City since 2001 and has 66K miles on it.  I also agree with you that my expectation of "good condition"  would be higher for masters off something as new as a Diavel.  

That said, if he got the masters to you for $5.05 you could have got them back to him for $5.05, so that is what he owes you.  

The items weren't described as being in good condition. They were described as "excellent other then a 1/4 of a pinky nail mark in the ball end of lever" and "flawless."

About the $5.05. I value your opinion. I just thinking I shouldn't be out a dime since I was lied to.

[hbliam]

How would we know?

Unless I missed something no names have been named.

Oops. I figured it was pretty easy to find via some searching. I bought the items from BlackKat, the Northern Ohio Ducati guy.

[ducpainter]

Oops. I figured it was pretty easy to find via some searching. I bought the items from BlackKat, the Northern Ohio Ducati guy.

I didn't try.

Interesting...

and he wanted to be a sponsor here. 

[hbliam]

If it's the same guy that Speeddog dealt with, then this would be the reason stuff like this needs to be aired.

[ducpainter]

I didn't say otherwise.

[Triple J]

they have since closed, saving me a trip and the cost of a molatov cocktail.

 

[hbliam]

I didn't say otherwise.

Yeah, I was responding to the couple of guys that questioned airing this type of stuff. If this is the same guy, and Nick had let it be know, this thread wouldn't need to exist.

And I gave the guy every opportunity to make things right. Instead this is the note attached to my paypal refund:

Note:   
you're the dumb ass that spend $25.00 to ship. usps would have been faster and $5.05.

[ducpainter]

Yeah, I was responding to the couple of guys that questioned airing this type of stuff. If this is the same guy, and Nick had let it be know, this thread wouldn't need to exist.

And I gave the guy every opportunity to make things right.

I shipped the wrong item a few months back during a garage clean out, ebay purge. I apologized. Then I made it right and didn't expect the guy to spend a dime to get the item back to me. Why should he? I screwed up.

Normally I believe private transactions should remain just that.

I do think you gave him the chance to make things right, and monetarily he's come close.

What I don't like is this guys attitude with respect to the board rules and our members.

He's been spamming the board since he went to work with the dealer he works for, and has been spoken to about it more than once, as well as some of his threads in the classifieds being deleted.

I don't understand why anyone would do business with him considering the quality of service from our sponsors.

There is some truth to the old adage that you get what you pay for.

[hbliam]

Normally I believe private transactions should remain just that.

I do think you gave him the chance to make things right, and monetarily he's come close.

What I don't like is this guys attitude with respect to the board rules and our members.

He's been spamming the board since he went to work with the dealer he works for, and has been spoken to about it more than once, as well as some of his threads in the classifieds being deleted.

I don't understand why anyone would do business with him considering the quality of service from our sponsors.

There is some truth to the old adage that you get what you pay for.

He didn't refund my money until I filed a claim with Paypal. I should send you the emails if you want to see attitude. And I edited my post above to include the message he added to the paypal refund. And he never sent the 1/2 of shipping he offered. I told him to do what he thinks is right and apparently that's to send $0.
I'm the wrong guy to cut off as a customer. 7 or 8 Ducs in 15 years. 3 sets of BST's. 7 or 8 exhausts and everything else under the sun. Yep, as Julia Roberts once said, "Big Mistake."

Diavel M/C's have been selling on ebay and the like for about $150 each so at $250 it was a good deal but not like I was stealing them or anything. I probably would have kept them and replaced the levers and covers if they werent fluid stained. That was the deal killer for me.

[ducpainter]

I have more than enough correspondence with him to be aware of his attitude.

[Heath]

I have been on both sides of situations like this. It is a tough call on the return shipping. Per eBay and most internet websites you, as the buyer, eat the shipping. Sometimes you eat it both ways so you only get refunded for the item. If you were wronged though I think you should be made whole. This also means shipping the part back the same way it came to you and refunded for that. If he only spent $5 and you spent $25 I can understand why he doesn't want to refund it.

This is why you always get pictures! Sometimes even pictures, video, trust, reputation, being a long time member, ect... don't help you though.

[hbliam]

I hear you on the price differeance. I seriously doubt I could send the item from So Cal to Ohio insured for $5. It was about 5 lbs. The if it fits it ships thing is about $10 and doesn't include insurance.

And this wasn't ebay. This was a transaction between DMF members. I believe in a higher standard amongst ourselves.

[BlackKat]

OK...I suppose its about time I clarify all sides of the story here so this will be a long one....

Speeddog...As far as that Crank.. I told you my tech inspected it and it was fine but if you had an issue send it back. Never heard from you again about it and I'm fairly certain that you have bought something from me since...As have MANY members of the forum.

Now...to respond to Scott...I won't even address the issue of condition...A $250.00 set of radial masters with crazy low miles is not worth an argument about condition. There will always be disagreements on condition. I have to say I've been super busy already this riding season so I haven't been on the forum in a while and as a result I didn't see Scotts first PM about the condition, For that I apologize...I checked in a few days later and as soon as I saw it...said "Please return them"...

He then said he wanted to see what parts he would have to buy to put them to his standard...ok fine. A few days later he discovered the parts were too much and he wanted to return them. Again..not on the forum EVERY DAY... When I check in again (MIND YOU, HE HAS MY EMAIL FROM PAYPAL) he mentioned he didn't have the address any longer. I responded with my shipping info...

4 days later-I mention this because if I were in any hurry to get a refund on something I wouldn't wait 4 days- I get an email (YES, an EMAIL) with tracking information and asking for a refund based on the tracking number. I don't know anyone in their right mind that would do this..I said when it gets here, I'll refund the payment. He also mentions that he wants $25.00 for shipping...I'm sorry, thats absurd!

I paid $5.05 to ship them out to him (He didn't pay me for shipping either-it was part of the price) USPS PRIORITY MAIL...FLAT RATE...doesn't matter what it weighs by the way! Take it one step further..I don't care what venue it is, I have NEVER seen anyone refund shipping. Thats the reality of online shopping.

Yesterday, it gets delivered. I worked very late and didn't even open the box when I got home. Its been a matter of hours and he starts in about getting his refund/paypal dispute...etc...etc...again..odd for someone who waited 4 days to ship it. But I really wanted to look at it first. We've never done business before, so I trust him as far as I can bowl him.. What if he destroyed them due to ignorance in ability, what if he sent me back something that wasn't mine? What if the box had a couple rocks in it and not the masters at all... THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO ME IN SELLING DUCATI PARTS HERE AND ON THE OTHER FORUMS..Point is I don't know him but from a few emails.

So, I apologized to Scott for calling him am ASS...but why should I jump through hoops to give him a refund for something I told him weeks ago to return to me with no questions, when he has taken his sweet ass time in doing so? He comes across as an impatient child...quite honestly, I was nasty too him, but good grief..RELAX MAN!

NOWWWWWW..... to address ducpainter...

We have had many PM exchanges. Even before I pissed you off I wanted to be a board sponsor. You never got back to me...thats fine. You have your reasons. I accept that. This place is great, more homey feeling than some of the other Ducati forums. I've met some great friends and many times referred people here.

That being said, there is some really bad advice being given, some misconstrued tech advice and always untrue rumors. I proposed to ducpainter that we have a section called ask a dealer to help remedy some of this. Not necessarily tech stuff.

In talking to other dealers, we all agree that when a customer starts out a statement with "I read on a forum..." that 90% of the following statement is horrific. Thats what I wanted to help with.

I'm by no means a bad guy. I'm realistic. Maybe arrogant due to the information I have access to, but not a bad guy at all. If you guys don't want me here, thats fine. I joined before I worked for Ducati in hopes to learn more about my hobby. I like to think I have made more friends than the few I have pissed off-albeit the founder of the forum.

I apologize to Ducpainter, Scott, Speeddog for all ill communications and to all of you who have read this thread and more so, wasted time reading my ramblings.

[hbliam]

Now...to respond to Scott...I won't even address the issue of condition...A $250.00 set of radial masters with crazy low miles is not worth an argument about condition. There will always be disagreements on condition. I have to say I've been super busy already this riding season so I haven't been on the forum in a while and as a result I didn't see Scotts first PM about the condition, For that I apologize...I checked in a few days later and as soon as I saw it...said "Please return them"...

Why won't we address the issue of condition? Thats the entire issue! When you lie about the condition of course you are going to have problems with the buyer. You also seem to be hung up on "how great" the price is. The price is not great when the item needs $200 worth of covers and a lever to make them marginally acceptable. When you drained brake fluid all over them you devalued them even more. And to have you questioning my mechanical ability and other tech advice on the board when you violated the rookie rule in brake fluid? Seriously? 

Regarding checking in. You ignored my first PM. You do know we can see when your last login was right? Thats why I was forced to send you a second message.

He then said he wanted to see what parts he would have to buy to put them to his standard...ok fine. A few days later he discovered the parts were too much and he wanted to return them. Again..not on the forum EVERY DAY... When I check in again (MIND YOU, HE HAS MY EMAIL FROM PAYPAL) he mentioned he didn't have the address any longer. I responded with my shipping info...

4 days later-I mention this because if I were in any hurry to get a refund on something I wouldn't wait 4 days- I get an email (YES, an EMAIL) with tracking information and asking for a refund based on the tracking number. I don't know anyone in their right mind that would do this..I said when it gets here, I'll refund the payment. He also mentions that he wants $25.00 for shipping...I'm sorry, thats absurd!

No, I said I wanted to see how much the parts would cost to fix what you sent me. I did not say I needed to see if they would/could fit on my bike.

No, I did not have your email from paypal. I sent you money. I checked the transaction before I tried to mail them out and there was no address. I asked for the refund when I sent the tracking number because I was hoping you would be apologetic about sending me bad parts and want to refund my money. To say I may send you rocks or whatever is ridiculous.

I paid $5.05 to ship them out to him (He didn't pay me for shipping either-it was part of the price) USPS PRIORITY MAIL...FLAT RATE...doesn't matter what it weighs by the way! Take it one step further..I don't care what venue it is, I have NEVER seen anyone refund shipping. Thats the reality of online shopping.

I agree, I don't normally ask for return shipping. But when you lie about what you are selling why should the buyer be out anything?

Yesterday, it gets delivered. I worked very late and didn't even open the box when I got home. Its been a matter of hours and he starts in about getting his refund/paypal dispute...etc...etc...again..odd for someone who waited 4 days to ship it. But I really wanted to look at it first. We've never done business before, so I trust him as far as I can bowl him.. What if he destroyed them due to ignorance in ability, what if he sent me back something that wasn't mine? What if the box had a couple rocks in it and not the masters at all... THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO ME IN SELLING DUCATI PARTS HERE AND ON THE OTHER FORUMS..Point is I don't know him but from a few emails.

So, I apologized to Scott for calling him am ASS...but why should I jump through hoops to give him a refund for something I told him weeks ago to return to me with no questions, when he has taken his sweet ass time in doing so? He comes across as an impatient child...quite honestly, I was nasty too him, but good grief..RELAX MAN!

Six or more hours after it was delivered I asked for my refund. You said to wait until you got home. I waited. The next day still no refund. What am I supposed to think? I have a guy flat out lie to me about something I bought and I'm supposed to chill and wait for you to get around to giving me my money back?

I'm by no means a bad guy. I'm realistic. Maybe arrogant due to the information I have access to, but not a bad guy at all. If you guys don't want me here, thats fine. I joined before I worked for Ducati in hopes to learn more about my hobby. I like to think I have made more friends than the few I have pissed off-albeit the founder of the forum.

I apologize to Ducpainter, Scott, Speeddog for all ill communications and to all of you who have read this thread and more so, wasted time reading my ramblings.

Arrogant due to the info you have access to? You have been around Ducati for what 2-3 years? Wow.

Sorry, this isn't failed communications. You sold damaged parts but passed them off as "flawless." That's an integrity failure. For any dealer to let you have access to peoples bikes/funds is a mistake.

Here is where you tell me the condition:

Perfect working order...the clutch lever has a tiny.. I mean 1/4 of your pinky nail size scuff on the end of little ball where it was resting on something... they never went down! The brake is flawless.

Do you need clutch and brake switches? I think I have one of each in my stash if you do.

Here is the awesome quote from your email agreeing to send me $5.05 for shipping:

"I ll send you for 5.05 as that's what it cost me to ship them to you. I m not paying for your ignorance. You can pay for that for the rest of your days. Ass!"