Advice/Opinions (Build a Monster from eBay bits)

[Ahks]

Here's the TL;DR
Want to build a bike from parts.
I'd like opinions and any real information you folks may have on specific motors and chassis'

Fulls story, since I type... A Lot

So I'm back. Been a lurker for awhile, introduced myself ages back (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=37958.msg671123#msg671123) when I thought a Monster was in the cards, hung around, participated, ended up with a much heavier vtwin that I didn't like (Sportster), then an I4 that was so vanilla and souless (CBR F4i) I had to go British (98 Daytona T595)... I know VS is far from loved here :p But here's a linky to a build thread on it. http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61760 I really would like to finish it. But after riding the bike for a season it doesn't... inspire me. It's got some problems that I don't really want to pay to fix. Then there's the fact that those triples, while being awesome for street riding, are PIGS on a scale. I was tempted by the new Yamaha FZ-09 being released but... I can't justify buying a new bike. They just cost too damn much off the lot for their actual value. Then there's the fact that I haven't found a bike I liked for more than a few riding seasons and getting a loan on one would put a cramp in my style :p

I still haven't found the bike that makes me totally swoon for more than a few weeks :p But the Monster is the one that pulled me in and it's drawn me back around to it a few years later...

Like the addict, the topic of my first passion is back on my mind. I think want to build one. Frame up. From ebay parts (mainly because the market for used Ducati is fairly poor locally and I can't "save" money to save my life apparently).

The bike I want to build would be dry clutch, air/oil cooled motor, with an SSSA. All the features that brought me to Ducati and the Monster specifically in the first place. From what I can remember with Monsters one of the only bikes that fits the bill would be an S2r1000. But I know some motors fit into other frames... so I could, theoretically toss some dry clutch 900 or 1000 mill into in a 748 frame or something. Which I'm not opposed to. At all. I'm pretty sure I know of a guy that does some very reliable TIG work and I have access to and suck at MIG :p

I don't put a crap load of miles on my bike, so an older one with a lower valve check interval wouldn't make me cry (I can't commute on it (mobile tech, need my tools and cargo space for parts, etc), my gf wont get on the damn thing so we don't roadtrip on it (again cage only )).

Any suggestions on a good motor and/or chassis opinions, that would give me light weight (I know the SSSA's are a bit heavier, but it's a concession I must make), big low end torque and planted corner capability? I avoid highways, cagers are nutters, (for example, the trip I have planned for August is a Detroit to Indiana and it'll be solely on state "highways" no interstate), so top end HP/speed isn't really important and the only track nearby that I'm familiar with is a very tight technical track with only one straight where the folks riding get some real speed (where I know I'll probably get passed, shrug).

 

[brad black]

i'd buy as complete a bike as you find with the desired donor frame.  it's all the little stuff that you will need which comes with a complete bike.  the pile of misc stuff ebay sellers have left over after parting out a bike.

your choice of swingarm will define your choice of engine cases pretty much, so you need to decide on sbk or s*r.

[Rigez]

I say save yourself the headache and hassle of putting together a bike from parts. Just save your $$ and keep your eye out for a S2R1000 on Craigslist, eBay and the classified listings on all the motorcycle sites. I'm helping my brother rebuild a 2009 1100. Its taking a lot of time finding all the parts needed on eBay and other various used parts suppliers sites. The parts you get aren't always in the condition that they should be and then you are back to searching again for the right part in useable condition. Unless you plan on doing all the work yourself good luck on doing it for cheap.

Unless you have really thought this out and mapped out your plan of attack for the build you will most likely give up after realizing what I told you to be true and end up selling all the parts you have acquired for less than what you originally paid for them. Buy a turnkey at a fair price so you can get your ass on the road instead of wishing you had a running bike on the nice days or even the shitty days.

[Ahks]

the pile of misc stuff ebay sellers have left over after parting out a bike.

Usually gets sold as a box of misc parts. I have one from a speed triple that was integral to my naked daytona build.

your choice of swingarm will define your choice of engine cases pretty much, so you need to decide on sbk or s*r.

I had forgotten about this Duc quirk of mounting the swinger directly to the cases. Thanks for the reminder. However, swingarms are generally over engineered and can handle some light modification without becoming dangerous. I'd just need to get measurements of mount points on cases to find something "close enough".

I say save yourself the headache and hassle of putting together a bike from parts.

It's not a headache m8. It's winter therapy

Unless you have really thought this out and mapped out your plan of attack for the build you will most likely give up after realizing what I told you to be true and end up selling all the parts you have acquired for less than what you originally paid for them.

I'm not gonna go to ebay and start buying loads of parts on a whim m8. What you see here in this thread is the beginning of the planning phase. So that I do have a plan of attack, so that I don't get halfway in, frustrated about having the wrong bits.

Buy a turnkey at a fair price so you can get your ass on the road instead of wishing you had a running bike on the nice days or even the shitty days.

This options is still on the table. I know the market will pick up in the spring. Just not sure how much is in the budget as I'll be parting out the Triumph for the Duc project/purchase. And I'm never set in stone. I may still yet think a naked 998/748 is the way to go :shrug: I just don't like the idea of finding a hiding place for the battery after I remove the plastics from a sbk :p

I was hoping for information so that I can formulate some of my own opinions as well.
I completely rebuilt my Triumph over the winter.
I know what I'm proposing getting into

[memper]

There looks to be a decent 1997 900ss engine on eBay right now. Bids start at $750. V heads and 9k mi.
I'd be on it but I'm a broke ass.

[brad black]

the 916 on sbk swingarms require a narrower crank case, and they have bearings in the swingarm.  plus they are mounted lower, so the drilling thru the cases is lower and is supported by the frame.

the non sbk have the pivot bearings in the cases, and no frame support.  so if you use an sbk chassis it's much easier to use an sbk swingarm and crankcases.  cases will mount in any chassis pretty much, they're all the same thing apart from the swingarm mounting.

you're asking an open ended subjective question, so it's pretty hard to answer.

[Rigez]

It's not a headache m8. It's winter therapy

I'm not gonna go to ebay and start buying loads of parts on a whim m8. What you see here in this thread is the beginning of the planning phase. So that I do have a plan of attack, so that I don't get halfway in, frustrated about having the wrong bits.
This options is still on the table. I know the market will pick up in the spring. Just not sure how much is in the budget as I'll be parting out the Triumph for the Duc project/purchase. And I'm never set in stone. I may still yet think a naked 998/748 is the way to go :shrug: I just don't like the idea of finding a hiding place for the battery after I remove the plastics from a sbk :p

I was hoping for information so that I can formulate some of my own opinions as well.
I completely rebuilt my Triumph over the winter.
I know what I'm proposing getting into
[/quote]
Good to know that you already know what you are in for. I totally agree with Brad Black. You should definitely find the most complete bike that you can find. I would steer clear of anything with motor damage or missing engine parts. Other items like sub-frames, wheels, forks, triples basically anything outside of the frame area not supporting the heart of the bike are easy pickings. Right now I'm having a hard time trying to find a used cylinder head.  If you decide to stick with the build from eBay parts just remember to or try to stick with something that will keep you out of the game so long that you will get discouraed and give.

[Rudemouthsky]

 

[pitbull]

As someone who has bought a crashed 2000 900 monster cheap and took my time rebuilding it with parts bought here, on ebay and other used sources, I can tell you that in all likelyhood, it's going to cost you more, or at the very least as much as simply buying yourself a used, complete monster.

Just my opinion, but save yourself the time and money and buy a complete bike.

[Rudemouthsky]

You guise are missing Rigez' whole point. He *wants* to build something custom from the ground up. I don't think cost or hassle has anything to do with it. Considering how much time and $ I've put in rebuilding a carby 750 into a 900 frankenmonster...I get it.

although I really don't like to think about how much $ I've blown and prob would not do it again. 

[koko64]

Go for it. Sounds like you need a project for your mental health during the winter hibernation. As long as your mods pass the regulations, go for it. The biggest issue is the SSS/frame/motor fit as others have mentioned. I wouldnt do it, but you want to. Good for you.
An older carbed M900 with oem swingarm and frame would be easiest for sure (and affordable), and is becoming a classic. The older belt drive motor has lots of aftermarket parts that are superior to oem, so you can upgrade performance in every area.

[duc_fan]

If it were me... I'd build a bike around the 1000DS motor with the curvy tubular SSS from the S2R/S4R series.

As far as what frame you need to do that, I have no idea.  Engine mounts to frame are common, but I dunno about the rear suspension mounts.  Obviously, an S2R frame would be the safe bet.

Full disclosure: my dream build is basically a S2R1000, upped displacement to 1100 (while retaining dry clutch), taller seat for my 6'4" frame, Ohlins suspenders, tail chop, and clipons.  Finished in the blue/white color scheme of the original S4R.  Not sure what I'd do for exhaust... though I lean toward the Quat-D belly exhaust.  Really cleans up the tail of the bike.

[Ahks]

Hey Brad, I found an old thread that has a bunch of general info I was having trouble finding. Heres a post of yours that was specifically helpful.

the 748 was built as a supersport race base, plus it mean they could sell a cheaper (less profitable?) version of the 916 to increase sales of what is basically the same thing.  the original 4v desmoquattro motor was a 748 too, but by the time they got to production they were racing 2v motors at 851cc in the F1 chassis so they made the 4v 851cc.  then they stroked the 2v to 68mm to create the 904cc 906 motor.

my main point was - you can buy a 748 or a 916, but to make an 853 you need a 748 then you buy 853 pistons and get cylinders bored and it's not cheap.  and you can buy a 916 already in a monster.  they all respond the mods the same way and they're all undervalved.  like the 748 motors the s4 has the close ratio gearbox too, which also changes the way the motor feels.

but if you want to fiddle, go for it.  as always, someone's simple is someone else's make the beast with two backsing nightmare - there was a guy on the old list who gave up and parted out a 750 to 916 monster when he just couldn't sort running issues that may have been nothing to do with the application per se.  so it depends on you more than the task at hand.

the main 2v - 4v issue is the cross member that runs across the top front of the vertical cylinder.  2v bikes are straight and the inlet goes under it, 4v bikes are bent in a v and the inlet goes over it.  the only chassis without stuff in there is the ss, but the section over the vertical head is far too narrow and low to fit a 4v in.

all the 748 and 916 engine cases are the same, and all the non 748/916/996 engine cases are the same - 900, st2, st4 and s4, so you could just use 900, etc cases and fit the 748 bits into them.  the 996, st4s and s4r have wider cylinder stud spacing.  that cures the swingarm issue

the very late 748 motors run the same "testa bassa" heads as the st, s4, and s4r series bikes.  but the pre '02 2v monsters are 888 based anyway, so a normal 4v motor should give the required front wheeel clearance.  altho saying that the triple clamp offset is 5mm less i think.

you'd have to be able to make a new rear suspension rocker linkage i'd think that would work.  all you need to do is plot out the shock, swingarm and pushrod movement for both and it couldn't be too hard to find the link requirements that work.  that way you wouldn't need to modify the rocker mounting in the frame or swingarm, etc.

if you think the hyper is a hoot then you'd want to ride a 748 before you got too far into it.  the extra 350cc make a huge difference, no matter how many valves it has.

I bolded some info I was having difficulty finding.

Full disclosure: my dream build is basically a S2R1000, upped displacement to 1100 (while retaining dry clutch), taller seat for my 6'4" frame, Ohlins suspenders, tail chop, and clipons.  Finished in the blue/white color scheme of the original S4R Gulf livery.  Not sure what I'd do for exhaust... though I lean toward the Quat-D belly exhaust.  Really cleans up the tail of the bike.

Get out of my head. Seriously.

I'll probably plan for several options while saving and hope I have the cash for a whole s2r1k or 1100s when the time comes. One of the plans I'll have tho is for a 996/998 fighter. I think that would be a nice ride. Monoposto, sssa, dry clutch, race winning machines of pure win, excluding the 2x4 seat and fuel tank humping :p

[brad black]

to clarify the bolded bit, the 748, 916 and 996 have the same swingarm mount arrangement.  the 996 is different to the st4s and s4r in the swingarm mounting, but has the same wider stud spacing.  st4s and s4r are the same cases.

so you need to choose your swingarm first probably, then go from there.

[memper]

Does anybody else wish they were ten years younger and could be a Brad Black understudy?