OFFICIAL: Closed Loop ECU mods

[Monstermash]

Anyone know anything about the FIM UltiMap U59.

http://www.fuelinmoto.com.au/

 This is a link to their product page. According to the website it works with the M1000 which is a DS like the one's that come in our S2R1K's. It goes on to state that it eliminates the immobilizer.

 I wonder what effect it would have on the O2 sensor? Could this be an alternative to the DP ECU? Of course not thaty it matters considering the price. 

[CDawg]

...tweak the O2-sensor on Nissan's by wiring resisters in parallel  (or was it in series?) with the O2-sensor to fool the computer in what it was reading

The new RapidBike O2 emulator essentially does this.  It has 3 settings (by rotating the a ring on the sensor) for the amount of extra fuel it tricks the ECU into dumping.  So far, the primary importer in Brooklyn, NY have had good results.  He alleges that he has lost sales to the full RB3 system because the O2 adjustment works so well.  A poster on TOB installed the new sensor, by itself but was very unhappy with the results.  Unconfirmed that he dinstalled porperly or adjusted it properly...so foe me the jury is still out.  I was going to mess around with the RB3 method, but the economy isn't so hot, so I'm putting it off for another season.

There is a hand few of shops that have been able to make the PC3 work with the S4RS/S4RT models without a DP ECU.  Typically if you remove the O2 sensor the light comes on and the ECU reverts to the "default" fuel map and renders the PC3 worthless.  What TJ and a few others are doing is removing the O2 sensor and replacing it with a resistor.  He then wires up a PC3 designed for a 1000ie or a 06 S4R.  This allows the ECU to think all is well with the O2 sensor and not make adjustments while the PC3 does what it does. 

This route has merits.  It seems to be the consensus that whenthe O2 emulator is removed, the stock ECU goes into opem mode after <100 miles.  The was the route RB3 initially took, but the ECU is pretty smart and will periodically ping the O2 sensor to see if it is working.  This "pinging" caused some RB O2 emulators to burnout.  This burning out of the emulator seems to be concentrated in 2007 models, but I don't know for sure.  Perhaps TJ was able to find the "correct" resistors to use.  I'd be pretty curious to learn how much of the signal is altered since the ECU is pretty sophisticated. 
The one question I hope someone can comment on is if the "Engine Maintenance" light remains on with this approach.  That is the down-side of just disconnecting the O2 sensor.

[CDawg]

Just an FYI, I received an email from Dusty at DynoJet a few weeks ago and they have suspended all R&D on the PCIII's for the S2R1K's.   Which kind of pisses me off because if another company (Dimsport/Rapid Bike) can figure it out why can't they? DynoJet has also claimed that the O2 emulator Dimsport is using is a ripoff of their model for Aprilia's. Hmmmmmm......... Make me wonder.......

'Mash,
[WILD GUESS] MAybe Dynojet higher legal scrutiny as the market leader (they were fined couple millions a few years back by CA).  I wonder if they have figured it out, but are only selling proiducts that remap avoer 25% of throttle or 4,000 RPM stock mapping to to conform to emmission laws and not necessarily open/close ECU problem.
[/WILD GUESS]

[DesmonsterS4RS]

I have a CF Arrow full system, open airbox, K&N, and a DP ECU on my S4RS, and it goes like stink when your on the throttle, I had some tuning issues with the DP ECU when I first had it installed, but after several sessions on the dyno my dealer was able to get it where I liked it. My only complaint is with the DP ECU it seems to run very rich below 4500 rpms. I plan on doing a PCIII with a custom map to help the bottom end. I will post the results as they come.

[Monstermash]

'Mash,
[WILD GUESS] MAybe Dynojet higher legal scrutiny as the market leader (they were fined couple millions a few years back by CA).  I wonder if they have figured it out, but are only selling proiducts that remap avoer 25% of throttle or 4,000 RPM stock mapping to to conform to emmission laws and not necessarily open/close ECU problem.
[/WILD GUESS]

 While this has some merit I would disagree only because they have a "new" PCIII that is designed for "road use" rather than the old unit that was designed as a "closed course/racing use only."

 So if they really had a solution I would venture to guess they would be selling it with "closed course only" disclaimer.

[CDawg]

Anyone know anything about the FIM UltiMap U59.
http://www.fuelinmoto.com.au/
This is a link to their product page. According to the website it works with the M1000 which is a DS like the one's that come in our S2R1K's. It goes on to state that it eliminates the immobilizer.
 I wonder what effect it would have on the O2 sensor? Could this be an alternative to the DP ECU? Of course not thaty it matters considering the price. 

'Mash,
Ultimap would eliminate the immobilizer.  It would also (I believe) eliminate the O2 sensor since it is an open loop ECU.  I don't remember if the S2R1k's have a stepper motor for low idle.  If it does, there isn't a FIM product that works with it yet.  Also, it's harder to find a good tuner for Ultimap, but Brian at BMC is suppose to be fairly experienced.

[CDawg]

UPDATED: RapidBike comes with poorly written instructions with conflicting information.  CUstomer service from the main importer is spotty.

[He Man]

FIM/Ultimap ecu is not suppose to work with the newer engines because of the stepper motor and O2 sensor. So the bike wont be able to idle. The S2R1000 is suppose to have a Stepper.

CDawg, do you know of anyone who has positive results with the O2 emulator? I have an 06 S2R1k and if it can inject a bit more fuel, id be all down for it.

[CDawg]

CDawg, do you know of anyone who has positive results with the O2 emulator? I have an 06 S2R1k and if it can inject a bit more fuel, id be all down for it.

So far I've only hear of 2 reviews.  One person could get it to run properly and was waiting for the full RB3 before making a final call.  The second person could tell any difference.  Although, He Man, if you decide to go for the O2 emulator route, I would suggest calling Robert Foster (the importer at RapidBike USA) and stoping by Brooklyn to either have them do it or make sure you can follow the instructions.  When I spoke to Robert ~4 weeks ago, he was very positive on the emulator, but considering the source...Personally, since my exhaust works fine with stock O2 sensor/ECU, I'm going to wait until more positive results.

http://www.rapidbikeusa.com/contact.html

[He Man]

By Brooklyn, do you mean Brooklyn the borough? the guys up at ECS have great things to say about RB3s. Now.. just need to find this thing called job....

[CDawg]

By Brooklyn, do you mean Brooklyn the borough? the guys up at ECS have great things to say about RB3s. Now.. just need to find this thing called job....

Yes.  RapidBike USA (the main importer) is located at Oakland Gardens, Brooklyn.

What industry are you job hunting in?

[moto4us.com]

FYI -- Will be trying production quality BoomTubes on a S4Rs in a few weeks with Rapidbike and O2-stuff via dyno.  I'll report results then.

Q I posted on the DML but not much feedback.  We (or should I saw our engine tuner) used to tweak the O2-sensor on Nissan's by wiring resisters in parallel  (or was it in series?) with the O2-sensor to fool the computer in what it was reading. Same problem as with the Ducati ECU "closed loop" problem now. Didn't know if anyone has played with this on the Ducati to change the range of what the O2-sensor actually reads? 

then why use RB and O2-stuff...after that Nissan parallel/series experience

[moto4us.com]

soorry but you don't have the whole picture....same problem like on dml: my friend told me, I heard from...and so on. This doesn't help much, but if you are a moderator for this forum then I understand you are trying...

The new RapidBike O2 emulator essentially does this.  It has 3 settings (by rotating the a ring on the sensor) for the amount of extra fuel it tricks the ECU into dumping.  So far, the primary importer in Brooklyn, NY have had good results.  He alleges that he has lost sales to the full RB3 system because the O2 adjustment works so well.  A poster on TOB installed the new sensor, by itself but was very unhappy with the results.  Unconfirmed that he dinstalled porperly or adjusted it properly...so foe me the jury is still out.  I was going to mess around with the RB3 method, but the economy isn't so hot, so I'm putting it off for another season.

This route has merits.  It seems to be the consensus that whenthe O2 emulator is removed, the stock ECU goes into opem mode after <100 miles.  The was the route RB3 initially took, but the ECU is pretty smart and will periodically ping the O2 sensor to see if it is working.  This "pinging" caused some RB O2 emulators to burnout.  This burning out of the emulator seems to be concentrated in 2007 models, but I don't know for sure.  Perhaps TJ was able to find the "correct" resistors to use.  I'd be pretty curious to learn how much of the signal is altered since the ECU is pretty sophisticated. 
The one question I hope someone can comment on is if the "Engine Maintenance" light remains on with this approach.  That is the down-side of just disconnecting the O2 sensor.

[moto4us.com]

UPDATED: RapidBike comes with poorly written instructions with conflicting information.  CUstomer service from the main importer is spotty.

this time you are off...here talking bad about "main importer" and after a while you suggest...that way...main importer... ...did he bribe you...
BTW who said about results?! "main importer" doesn't suppose to sell to end users, but this is an italian kind of business

What's that conflicting information?! why didn't you ask the "main importer"...

About FIM with regrets but I have to keep my previous opinion....no customer service, it's easier to talk with your president then with FIM and if you get an email back it's your lucky month. I sent a defective one about 2 month ago (after 1 year of trying) and still nothing...and I'm ready to pay for everything.
One small detail, they don't have ecu's for new models....so relax.

About rigged PC... you need advance not just AFR and also I don't remember one on a '07 up...correct me if I'm wrong.
About Xskjfn from Dynojet saying RBO2 is something they made for Aprilia...but they'll never produce same thing...

DP kit from your rich dealer....just compare with $2k for full Arrow TI (or Giannelli, or GPR), RB3 kit (with RBO2 for '07 up) & K&N filter...remember RB3 is working on whatever FI bike or atv, so it's a long term investment. GPR also has a tuning module cheaper, but I'm working on that. On the other hand, like I said many times, we have to support Ducati Corse and those results...so buy DP stuff.

What else...aaa, yes...what was the deal with the other forum, who sold it who bought it...and who was screwed and opened another forum...

[CDawg]

Al,
Glad you found us here!  Look, I'm just trying to do the best I can.  We've had this conversation on TOB when I started this thread there.  This entire thread is a collection of other people's experiences so it is going to be he said, she said.  Since I don't have the means to objectively test every combination of ECU mod and every bike, then best I can do is to dutifully report everything I hear without judgement so people can make up their own mind. 

I don't get compensated by Richard.  I don't get compensated by you, nor by FIM or Dynojet.  I don't get any compensation at all except the satisfaction that folks find this thread helpful as a starting point for their due diligence. 

Please cut me some slack; I'm not trying to mess with your business. Scouts honor, I'm just trying to get all the info in one place.