Lost the rear in a turn.

[pesto]

So on my track day last week, I was coming into turn 3, a left-handed U, on Eagles Canyon Raceway http://www.parkplacemotorsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/eagel_canyon_raceway.jpg. I wasn't on the brake at all, doing probably about 35-40 mph, and pretty much on-line. Suddenly I hear the *errrk* of my rear tire sliding or grabbing the road and my bike jerks violently. I managed to keep the rubber on the road and gently went off of the track to collect myself before pitting out. I'm unsure about what happened, and I was hoping I could get some general information about why this occurs. Next track day I'll ask the RideSmart guys but it's been bugging me.

I'm on a stock M696 with street tires at 28psi rear 30psi front, although my bike was cooling off when I measured. It was the second session of the day so the track was almost hot but certainly medium warm. I'm a very new rider so I think body position was a big factor. It seems like sometimes I don't get it right and I'm leaning heavily on the handlebars trying to keep myself on the bike. My head is lowered to the left and side and I've got one cheek off of the seat, but sometimes I'm gripping the bars very tightly because my legs aren't in a good position to hold me up. I've got the balls of my feet on the pegs and my calves extended. My left knee is out but my right knee is tucked into the tank. Is this a problem? I've looked at pictures but it seems that there are many different styles so I'm not sure if this is a very important factor or not.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I do have a video posted but it's practically useless because I'm still experimenting with the angle of my GoPro.


Accident occurs at 3:48.

Obviously I don't expect a silver bullet answer but any suggestions appreciated.

[ChrisK]

I'm not experienced enough to give you advice, but good damn save! 

[pesto]

I'm not experienced enough to give you advice, but good damn save! 

Thanks man, yours and a similar comment from the control rider who happened to be right behind me does scrub off a bit of the shame of messing it up so badly in the first place .

[Triple J]

Impossible to tell form the video or your description...but I can say you weren't going anywhere near fast enough for pretty much any tire to just let go.

Did you downshift right there, and dump the clutch? That's kinda what it looked like.

[stopintime]

It's normal to be curious about what happened, but I'm pretty sure this is a random accidental rider's mistake.

Not big enough to worry too much about.

If it keeps happening - you'll need to explore, but then you'll know more about what is what.

More track days - even bigger smile

[Howie]

I have no idea what went wrong unless Triple J nailed it, but great save and off road riding!

[pesto]

Yeah it was a shot in the dark. I wasn't on the clutch at all. I was out practicing today and noticed that when I use my core to lean I'm I *really* feel it in my core. I think I'll work on that and hopefully it won't happen again .

Thanks guys!

[swampduc]

I'm unable to view the video, but is it possible you dragged a peg?

[pesto]

I'm unable to view the video, but is it possible you dragged a peg?

It is possible. I'd heard something scraping on a couple of turns before but I'm never sure if it's my sidestand or the peg. I did not hear it on this turn but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Again, I think if this is the case then improving my body position would prevent it?

[Slide Panda]

Photos or video of yourself can be a great teaching tool.  The lens doesn't lie and doesn't think. 

A while back I started a thread of photos,
 
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=58317.0

Might be worth a look.  And if you've got photos, folks might have some advice

[pesto]

Thanks! Next pics I get I'll send up .

[Slide Panda]

You could even recruit a buddy to follow you through some of the local twisties with a video cam - even at sensibly, but sporting street pace one can see some 'bad' habits. Might be illuminating.

One thing I see fairly often, and will admit to doing it some myself (workiong on it!) is getting off the saddle, but not committing the upper body as much.  If one pulls their upper body back to the center of the bike, or even outside it brings all the lean back to the bike that you're trying to take off it by hanging off the inside.

Now pushing the bike down is a technique and has it uses (watch some supermoto videos) but a fast sweeper... not so much

[pesto]

You could even recruit a buddy to follow you through some of the local twisties with a video cam - even at sensibly, but sporting street pace one can see some 'bad' habits. Might be illuminating.

One thing I see fairly often, and will admit to doing it some myself (workiong on it!) is getting off the saddle, but not committing the upper body as much.  If one pulls their upper body back to the center of the bike, or even outside it brings all the lean back to the bike that you're trying to take off it by hanging off the inside.

Now pushing the bike down is a technique and has it uses (watch some supermoto videos) but a fast sweeper... not so much

Yeah this is exactly what I think was going on, coupled with the fact that surely my knee wasn't in the right place or I would have hit the puck well before losing traction.

[SpikeC]

 Is 28psi a misprint? That is way low for a tire at operating temp, even if it is cooling off some. You are not on race tires or at race pace, after all.

[Triple J]

If you touched your kickstand, you will be able to tell by looking at it. That could have caused your problem. A peg wouldn't. I've drug non-foldable pegs racing without an issue...folding stock ones would be even less of an issue.

Bad upper body position isn't the cause IMO. You can be very fast with bad upper body position...just ask Bayliss, Pegram, Schwantz, Russell, etc. Crossed up used to be the norm. Bad lower body position could have caused the kickstand to hit though if you weren't off the seat at all.

If your kickstand isn't scraped, then I still think it has something to do with your inputs...i.e, dropped the clutch, chopped the throttle, etc. Whatever the case, don't overthink it. Just work on being smooth.