New Monster 1198

[iRam]

A fairingless Panigale with a trellis frame feels more like an SF2.0 imho since the current SF was basically a naked version of their superbike at the time. But since rumors are out that the SF will be DC'd you are probably right.

[HotIce]

They did make it happen. M1200 is SF2 IMO.

I tend to agree. With the introduction of the liquid cooled 1200, I think their plan is to get rid of the SF.
If *I* would be Ducati CEO, I would rise the bar, and make the new SF2 with the DesmoSedici engine  

[Scoober1103]

Here in Oz the SF1098 was to darn expensive and after a phone call from Ducati today it sounds like the M1200s will be quite the pocket (piggy bank....kids piggy bank.......tuition fund.....left testicle.....possibly one kidney) emptier as well! They will have to sharpen their pencil somewhat if they are gonna sell well here!

I love the look of the new new monster and as well mentioned before some aspects better then others but overall it is a worthy upgrade in both looks imo and obvious power over my M1100 but if it's going to be more expensive then a 899(AUD$22,500 ride away apparently) I will have to seriously consider..........just keeping my M1100! Last of the big bore dry clutch monsters.....will have to go up in value wont it??? 

[Ducatamount]

..........just keeping my M1100! Last of the big bore dry clutch monsters.....

Sort of like the last of the V-8's?

[polivo]

I was thinking the same thing, but I wasnt going to mention it.. because obviously im biased.  But this whole thing has me appreciating my 2009 m1100 more than ever.  I think it will be considered the last of the air cooled, NON COMPUTER  controlled ducati motorcycles. Ie: no fancy computer software to save me from my own ham fisted stupidity. NO ABS. NO DTC. dry clutch, air cooled .. underseat highmount exhaust! yaaaaaaa boyyyeeeeeee!

[SpikeC]

 It is because of those things that I have some misgivings about giving up mine........

[polivo]

oo, im not giving up mine. The way i see it.. its the only monster where the single sided swing arm is completely clean on one side. Not blocked by muffler or passenger pegs. Its the slickest rear in my humble opinion.

[Moronic]

Has anyone wondered how they get a torque and power difference between the standard model and the "S" but with the maxima at precisely the same revs?

Doesn't make sense, or not to me, unless there is some sort of artificial restriction on the non-S motor.

By artificial I mean a restriction that does nothing but choke the std bike so that they can justify charging more for the "S". (Or so that they can satisfy their marketing department, which tells them that people are confused when Ducati's "S" models have no more engine performance than their cheaper sisters.)

So how do they do it? The website says:

The 1200 cc Testatstretta 11° DS engine is available in two different power variants: the Monster 1200 delivers 100,7 kW (135 CV) of power @ 8.750 rpm and 118 Nm (12,0 kgm) of torque @ 7.250 rpm, while the Monster 1200 S features a dedicated RbW mapping allowing 108,2 kW (145 hp) of power @ 8,750 rpm and 124,5 Nm (91.8 lb-ft) of torque @ 7,250 rpm.

Well, my first thought was that Ducati's PR department had made a mistake with the quoted figures. Wouldn't be the first time.

But that bit about the dedicated RbW mapping got my attention.

Hmmm RbW mapping. What's that? The first thought is that it has something to do with the fuel and ignition mapping, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. It is not as though they'd be wanting to run the standard bike even leaner than they have to for emissions control, or as though they'd be wanting to retard the ignition enough to cut 10hp out of the motor at a given rpm.

Besides, we've heard that term before: other Duc models are said to have different throttle maps for the various modes. But all that means is that the relationship between the throttle grip position and the throttle-body butterflies is tweaked.

So, how can adjusting the throttle map make a difference of 10hp at 8750rpm?

All right ... my guess: on the std bike the butterflies don't open all the way. 

Simple as that. After all, that is exactly how they restrict, say, the Multistrada to 100hp in Urban mode.

Could it be that silly? Does anybody have a better suggestion?

[Ducatamount]

That is a very disturbing hypothesis. 

[HotIce]

Has anyone wondered how they get a torque and power difference between the standard model and the "S" but with the maxima at precisely the same revs?

Doesn't make sense, or not to me, unless there is some sort of artificial restriction on the non-S motor.

By artificial I mean a restriction that does nothing but choke the std bike so that they can justify charging more for the "S". (Or so that they can satisfy their marketing department, which tells them that people are confused when Ducati's "S" models have no more engine performance than their cheaper sisters.)

So how do they do it? The website says:

Well, my first thought was that Ducati's PR department had made a mistake with the quoted figures. Wouldn't be the first time.

But that bit about the dedicated RbW mapping got my attention.

Hmmm RbW mapping. What's that? The first thought is that it has something to do with the fuel and ignition mapping, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. It is not as though they'd be wanting to run the standard bike even leaner than they have to for emissions control, or as though they'd be wanting to retard the ignition enough to cut 10hp out of the motor at a given rpm.

Besides, we've heard that term before: other Duc models are said to have different throttle maps for the various modes. But all that means is that the relationship between the throttle grip position and the throttle-body butterflies is tweaked.

So, how can adjusting the throttle map make a difference of 10hp at 8750rpm?

All right ... my guess: on the std bike the butterflies don't open all the way. 

Simple as that. After all, that is exactly how they restrict, say, the Multistrada to 100hp in Urban mode.

Could it be that silly? Does anybody have a better suggestion?

RbW == Ride by Wire
The mapping between the twist angle of the throttle and the opening is electronically controlled, so the can map a more linear behavior.

[Ducatamount]

Yeah, I had to google Rbw and figured that out but that would mean the only difference would be the map that is installed.

[Speeddog]

~~~SNIP~~~

All right ... my guess: on the std bike the butterflies don't open all the way. 

Simple as that. After all, that is exactly how they restrict, say, the Multistrada to 100hp in Urban mode.

Could it be that silly? Does anybody have a better suggestion?

You're assuming that the butterflies open all the way on the S model.
They may not.
All it means to me is that you can get 'S' power in your 'standard' model with just a ECU reflash or the like.
Likely heaps cheaper than if they got that 10HP with different hardware.

I'm curious as to who thinks they can feel the difference between 135 and 145 on the street.....

[twolanefun]

I'm curious as to who thinks they can feel the difference between 135 and 145 on the street.....

Exactly, while you will have bragging rights to those who don't know any better, what you are paying for and the reason to get an"S" is the suspension. - Gene

[DRKWNG]

Exactly, while you will have bragging rights to those who don't know any better, what you are paying for and the reason to get an"S" is the suspension. - Gene

And even then it's not the "full fat" Ohlins stuff.

[Speeddog]

And even then it's not the "full fat" Ohlins stuff.

But a good bargain for the price difference.