New Monster 1198

[twolanefun]

Yep - Gene

[Travman]

This CycleWorld video provides some good views of the new Monster.  I like the side profile view at the 1:00 minute mark.

http://www.cycleworld.com/videos/popular_videos/first_look__2014_ducati_monster_1200_and_1200_s_at_eicma_2013/

[DRKWNG]

    Guy said it looked like a Junior Diavel.   

[twolanefun]

I like the Diavel but I think the two look totally different and for me there is only one little thing wrong with a Diavel that I think the new monster solves. I've ridden the Diavel 500+ miles and you are locked into a seating position that isn't right for extended rides, my knees and hip do not like the position. I could live with the small sacarafice in handling over my Monster but the seating position kills the deal. It's a shame too, because the local dealer has that blue/white "Cobra" version that he is willing to deal on. I'm hoping the extra length and weight on this new Monster doesn't spoil the handling. - Gene

[SpikeC]

 I think that the extra wheelbase is necessary to keep it from looping.

[Moronic]

You're assuming that the butterflies open all the way on the S model.
They may not.
All it means to me is that you can get 'S' power in your 'standard' model with just a ECU reflash or the like.
Likely heaps cheaper than if they got that 10HP with different hardware.

I'm curious as to who thinks they can feel the difference between 135 and 145 on the street.....

Well, I just meant the butterflies will open further on the S model, and that's where the extra power will come from (hypothetically, at this point   ).

The other points you make are astute, tho. As you say, on the street this bike won't see much full-throttle use. Especially full-throttle use somewhere near the torque peak or beyond, where it's helpful. So the main "felt" difference between the std bike and the "S" will be more precise throttling on the std (because the grip movement controls less butterfly movement).

And yes, I was certainly thinking that bumping power on the "S" by fitting a different camshaft or more compression would have been more legitimate than restricting max throttle on the std.

But I suppose that's just luddite thinking.

Somehow offering a restricted throttle map still seems a bit fake tho. Perhaps it's because Ducati uses technical language to obscure what is really going on. Why don't they just come straight out and say: "The throttles will open further on the 'S'"? (Assuming that is the set-up.)

I imagine it is because they think the plain facts would not help them sell bikes. And they might be onto something there.    

Edit: and there is one other thing. Normally if you have, say, a std bike with a shorter-duration cam and an "S" with a racier cam there are trade-offs in either direction. The std should have better grunt down low while the "S" has less there but breathes better up top, etc. That's in principle anyway, I know that often in practice the "tuned for torque" models just feel flatter (not talking Ducati specifically here).

But restricting the max throttle opening gives the std no advantage whatsoever over the S except possibly a bit more throttle precision. (Then again, I can see how that might be quite helpful on this bike, given how much grunt it will have. Maybe I am a luddite.  )

[Travman]

Moronic - You are probably correct. It is probably just a matter of an ECU update that will bring the standard 1200 Monster up to the 145 hp S specs.

Doesn't the Diavel make something like 160 hp. If that is the case then maybe an ECU update could bring the Monster up to 160 hp or more. There is no reason the 1200 Monster shouldn't make the same horsepower as a Diavel. This Monster has what looks to be a very similar exhaust system as the Diavel.

[caperix]

Well, I just meant the butterflies will open further on the S model, and that's where the extra power will come from (hypothetically, at this point   ).

The other points you make are astute, tho. As you say, on the street this bike won't see much full-throttle use. Especially full-throttle use somewhere near the torque peak or beyond, where it's helpful. So the main "felt" difference between the std bike and the "S" will be more precise throttling on the std (because the grip movement controls less butterfly movement).

And yes, I was certainly thinking that bumping power on the "S" by fitting a different camshaft or more compression would have been more legitimate than restricting max throttle on the std.

But I suppose that's just luddite thinking.

Somehow offering a restricted throttle map still seems a bit fake tho. Perhaps it's because Ducati uses technical language to obscure what is really going on. Why don't they just come straight out and say: "The throttles will open further on the 'S'"? (Assuming that is the set-up.)

I imagine it is because they think the plain facts would not help them sell bikes. And they might be onto something there.    

Edit: and there is one other thing. Normally if you have, say, a std bike with a shorter-duration cam and an "S" with a racier cam there are trade-offs in either direction. The std should have better grunt down low while the "S" has less there but breathes better up top, etc. That's in principle anyway, I know that often in practice the "tuned for torque" models just feel flatter (not talking Ducati specifically here).

But restricting the max throttle opening gives the std no advantage whatsoever over the S except possibly a bit more throttle precision. (Then again, I can see how that might be quite helpful on this bike, given how much grunt it will have. Maybe I am a luddite.  )

With ride by wire you have to think of things a bit differently.  How far you twist the throttle is more of a torque request than an actual throttle position request.  Think of it like the GP bikes where they use throttle mapping to even out the high & low spot in the torque peak to make the bike smoother to ride.  The plus is on a base model you will get a big bump when you put the DP ECU or reflash in it.

[twolanefun]

I have confirmed there is no mechnical difference in the motor on the to models. But for $1500 dollars difference you get Ohlins front and back, lighter wheels and 10HP, works for me. - Gene

[Moronic]

Moronic - You are probably correct. It is probably just a matter of an ECU update that will bring the standard 1200 Monster up to the 145 hp S specs.

Doesn't the Diavel make something like 160 hp. If that is the case then maybe an ECU update could bring the Monster up to 160 hp or more. There is no reason the 1200 Monster shouldn't make the same horsepower as a Diavel. This Monster has what looks to be a very similar exhaust system as the Diavel.

They've gone to some trouble to tune the Monster for low-end and mid-range. That is, not just the short-overlap cams but also:

The Testastretta 11° DS engine that equips the new Monster 1200 family is unique to those bikes, as its structure is engineered to be a structural element of the frame; moreover, the air intake and exhaust have been tuned to give increased torque at low-medium rpm (ducts, intake manifolds, throttle bodies and pipes have a smaller diameter to deliver an incredible torquey character).

The power peaks about 500rpm lower than the Diavel, probably accounts for most of the difference.

I'm looking forward to riding one. Should be an amazing street engine. A rev ceiling around 9K will still be plenty on this thing.  Hell, I almost never rev my S4Rs that hard: just no need.

[Leo167]

I like the Diavel but I think the two look totally different and for me there is only one little thing wrong with a Diavel that I think the new monster solves. I've ridden the Diavel 500+ miles and you are locked into a seating position that isn't right for extended rides, my knees and hip do not like the position. I could live with the small sacarafice in handling over my Monster but the seating position kills the deal. It's a shame too, because the local dealer has that blue/white "Cobra" version that he is willing to deal on. I'm hoping the extra length and weight on this new Monster doesn't spoil the handling. - Gene

Same here loved my Dark, but hated the riding position, as well as the foot placement that was awkward and uncomfortable for me... Too bad the 20-30 minute test ride didn't reveal this issue, or else I would of looked at something else.... Touring seat helped a little to move around with,, but was not willing to spend $700+ for adjustable rear sets.. That most likely will not help
I also believe that the arrangements on the M12 will solve the issue that I had with the diavel
I did look at the MS... But just not for me..... Not yet anyways

[Leo167]

I think that the extra wheelbase is necessary to keep it from looping.

Agreed.....My Diavel with,, if I remember correctly 62"+ WB was somewhat loop-able....
with no TC
Always Loved the Harley riders reaction....

[dbran1949]

Like that the tank is metal....Don't like the price tage:

Monster 1200 - $13, 495
Monster 1200 S - $15,995

I dont get that. Morethan the 2012 Streetfigter ($13,300) and in the same ballpark as the Evo @ $14K.

Actually that is pretty close to the price of my 2007 S4RS - I am glad to see this new bike, to me it is the next gen S4RS and the only new Ducati to tempt me to trade mine in on

[dbran1949]

They've gone to some trouble to tune the Monster for low-end and mid-range. That is, not just the short-overlap cams but also:

The power peaks about 500rpm lower than the Diavel, probably accounts for most of the difference.

I'm looking forward to riding one. Should be an amazing street engine. A rev ceiling around 9K will still be plenty on this thing.  Hell, I almost never rev my S4Rs that hard: just no need.

Also agree tuning for a wider power band vs. high RPM horsepower is always smarter in my book. I wonder if it will have the same tendency to lift the front wheel in second and third that my S4Rs has . Anyone who has ridden a 4 cylinder 600cc where the peak horsepower is at 14,000 RPM would agree as well

[Duck-Stew]

In the left side view (alternator side), did anyone else catch that the spark plugs are at an angle and off on the 1 side of the combustion chamber?

Perhaps the fine folks @ AUDI have made a move away from a centralized spark plug...  Curious no matter how you cut it. 

Perhaps that also (if it is the only spark plug in the chamber) accounts for some of the reduced HP from the Diavel's 160.