Ride to Marin Sat., July 12th anyone?

[countzero]

I am down with the program. Perhaps even a stop at Drakes bay. Then I can get the sausages I owe you!

countzero

[Delmar]

So.......you'd go on the group ride if you weren't .....

1) learning how to actually work your bike and
2) busy getting your oh-so-recently binned bike repaired.

Are you really considering following a group of experienced riders on a set of of terribly windy roads that they will absolutely fly down?

It's a recipe for riding above your limit. This is not something you should be attempting....

Hey dude!

Back off!!! Seriously, I'm new to this forum and I'm really disappointed in your posting.  I joined this forum because I had heard that most of the people here were NOT like the people who post on BARF.  Instead of criticizing Soldier, you (as a more experienced rider) should try to help him by giving him good advice (ride within your skill limits, etc). 

I'm surprised to see other people also joining your rant against a new rider.  I might be new to this forum but I've been riding for a few years.  Of all these years riding, I have found that the most helpful people are the experienced riders who would ride at a slower pace with me so that I feel comfortable within my skills.  People who criticize other riders without doing anything should keep their postings to themselves.

Hope you can change your attitude,

Delmar

[CharliesAngel]

Just a few observations from someone who has been riding since October 07 and who is relatively new to the Board but has embraced this wonderful hobby:

1. Note to self: When posting a ride, mention skill level and pace... so I will amend my original thread after I post this note.  It will be a relaxed ride "for me" but I know that the more experienced riders will go ahead of me and do their thing and we'll all end up together again at the next big turn off the road = fun for all levels of experience.

Note to Noobs:  I went on my first MOB ride earlier this year and respectfully applaud the other rider's experience - I look forward to "doing my time" and only hope I can ride that well in a few years time!  I also almost crashed on that ride because I was trying to keep up (silly me!)... and then the Senior MOBsters told me that they would rather wait for me (because it gives them a chance to relax after an intensely focused stretch of riding) than waiting an even longer time for an ambulance to show up.  It is actually less selfish of me to take my time and let them wait the 2 minutes that it takes for me to catch up.  But it did take me that near crash to realize that!  With each group ride that I do, I learn more about the art of motorcycling - the lessons learned are invaluable!

2. Having met 707soldier briefly this Monday, I think he shows the signs of a very responsible new rider.  He recognized (even posted his crash) and what happened to cause the crash and his bike is already in the shop being fixed.  It's important to get back onto that bike after even a minor fall so that that "spooked" feeling doesn't overwhelm us. 

3. Having met Duckwrench13 a few times now, I think he's a warm and IZ_ guy with a big heart (Sorry DW, hope I'm not shattering your image!) 
Not to make a big deal here but none of us want to see a Noobie or anyone for that matter, crash.  Sometimes it takes big words to deliver that message but perhaps in this case it wasn't necessary but at least it was put out there and the message was delivered/received. 

I think moral of the story is that we will all ride safer after this thread is done.  As human beings, we tend to forget history and this was a good reminder!  So I personally thank everyone for piping up here!

There are now a couple other experienced friends/riders showing up on Saturday, I think we'll have a good group of 5-6 people.  Countzero and the others will lead as there are some Marin County veterans coming on this ride, I will obviously sweep on this ride! 

Cheerio!
   

[MendoDave]

So where are we gonna ride to?

[CharliesAngel]

So where are we gonna ride to?

Hi! I've revised my original posting on the thread and am inclined to ride all the way past Inverness to South Beach.  Now I have to go buy armored textile riding pants that can deal with this heat! 

Hope that you can join us - are you riding out from Mendocino? Wow!

[x136]

I rode through Mendocino and Marin last weekend, and the weather was fantastic. Should be great for you guys. Have fun!

[MendoDave]

Well my plans have been dashed. I will be in SF on Friday and Sat. But it will have to be on 4 wheels to take someone to UCSF. So I cant bring the bike. Rats!  Anybody going to  the Geist on Friday?

[ducnymph]

Just a few observations from someone who has been riding since October 07 and who is relatively new to the Board but has embraced this wonderful hobby:

1. Note to self: When posting a ride, mention skill level and pace... so I will amend my original thread after I post this note.  It will be a relaxed ride "for me" but I know that the more experienced riders will go ahead of me and do their thing and we'll all end up together again at the next big turn off the road = fun for all levels of experience.

Note to Noobs:  I went on my first MOB ride earlier this year and respectfully applaud the other rider's experience - I look forward to "doing my time" and only hope I can ride that well in a few years time!  I also almost crashed on that ride because I was trying to keep up (silly me!)... and then the Senior MOBsters told me that they would rather wait for me (because it gives them a chance to relax after an intensely focused stretch of riding) than waiting an even longer time for an ambulance to show up.  It is actually less selfish of me to take my time and let them wait the 2 minutes that it takes for me to catch up.  But it did take me that near crash to realize that!  With each group ride that I do, I learn more about the art of motorcycling - the lessons learned are invaluable!

2. Having met 707soldier briefly this Monday, I think he shows the signs of a very responsible new rider.  He recognized (even posted his crash) and what happened to cause the crash and his bike is already in the shop being fixed.  It's important to get back onto that bike after even a minor fall so that that "spooked" feeling doesn't overwhelm us. 

3. Having met Duckwrench13 a few times now, I think he's a warm and IZ_ guy with a big heart (Sorry DW, hope I'm not shattering your image!) 
Not to make a big deal here but none of us want to see a Noobie or anyone for that matter, crash.  Sometimes it takes big words to deliver that message but perhaps in this case it wasn't necessary but at least it was put out there and the message was delivered/received. 

I think moral of the story is that we will all ride safer after this thread is done.  As human beings, we tend to forget history and this was a good reminder!  So I personally thank everyone for piping up here!

There are now a couple other experienced friends/riders showing up on Saturday, I think we'll have a good group of 5-6 people.  Countzero and the others will lead as there are some Marin County veterans coming on this ride, I will obviously sweep on this ride! 

Cheerio!
   

Hi S, Very well spoken 

We all know people who've gotten hurt (or have been hurt ourselves) riding motorcycles. And I think the important thing is knowing your limits and learning good riding techniques from people you respect. DW13 is someone I've always respected and learned good riding techniques from. And though his message was harsh, he means well and doesn't want to see people get hurt.

Again, like some others have said, the deliver was less than tactful from a couple of members, but it doesn't mean what they've said isn't t true. I'd love to see all new riders stay safe and ride within a pace that's right for them. When I'm on a ride, if there are faster people in the front, then I know they'll be waiting up the bend a ways -simple as that.

Speaking of new riders I'm waiting to see what me and my gal are doinmg this weekend. She's new and we might want to go on this ride because the pace sounds comforatable for both of us   Will let you as soon as I figure it out!

[duckwrench13]

My delivery on my response was heated, yes. Taking an "I'm invincible because I was a soldier" attitude is the wrong way to approach all things. There is a modicum of outward control over circumstances in the military, but we are no longer in a "military environment." We are in an environment where red light running SUVs are more the norm, and we don't have superior numbers on our side.

 I honestly agree with someguy's asesment of getting in over his head. In the military, they don't just shave your head and turn you loose. You are trained, qualified, retrained, and requalified until they are absolutely sure you have the skills and training to operate the equipment/ complete the mission.

 Riding a motorcycle is no different. As 707 admitted, this is his first bike, and he is not 100% familiar with it's capabilities, and used improper cornering techniques that resulted in his loss of control.

 Yes, we were all rookies once. We've all made mistakes. But jumping in, with a high performance machine, and minimal saddle time/rider skills, is no way to become an experienced, and more importantly older, rider.

 Going out on a group ride is indeed one of the best ways to gain experience. But the group rides should come after some degree of skill, and responsible riding, has been developed.

 I have been working in the motorcycle industry for over a decade, and I've seen too many riders and machines wrecked beyond repair, all because they felt that they were "good enough" to be riding with this or that group, on this or that road. And we're all very well aware of the body count that has been racked up in recent months...primarily due to inexperienced riders.

 I will not apologize for anything I have previously said, nor how it was delivered. Call me an ass. Call me too hard. Whatever you want to call me, do so. But maybe being a new rider, having this accident, and the hard facts being thrown at you in a very "tough love" kind of way may have made enough of an impact to prevent this in the future.


And on a side note, 707, if you don't want to be reminded of the things you experienced over there, leave the "Hoo-Ah!" on the shelf.  I, for one, know exactly how difficult it is, both over there and here at home. We are never the same after what we have experienced. People will ask us from time to time, but won't truly understand. They'll never really know what Hell is like... and honestly, I hope they never do.

The best thing you can do to get on with your life, is to leave that mess as far behind as you can. Just be yourself, and enjoy things. You have a very supportive and accepting family here. We wouldn't be so hard on you, if we hadn't seen what happens when a rider at your level doesn't get the advice, the guidance and the support, and is just left to their own means. Which, unfortunately, is more often than not a very short existence.

Welcome to your new family, the MOB. We put the "fun" back in "dysfunctional."

[707soldier]

I have no problem with listening to everyone's advice. I keep it to heart and learned from experienced rider.
After my crash, instead of just going home and lick my wounds.
I went ahead to attend the meet to gain some advice, knowledge and meet future friends.
I'm all about training makes perfect, soon enought I'll be a good rider.

In the bike riding world, I'm right now a Private aspiring to be an NCO.
With the right tools, training, experience and support of my unit.
I know everythings gonna be ok, I embrace my new family and looking forward riding with all MOB.
DW, maybe someday we'll meet, talk Ducs and trade war stories and beers.
I hope I'm in the right path and on target.

regards,
Lito

[x136]

We put the "fun" back in "dysfunctional."

Wait, who the hell took the "fun" out of "dysfunctional" in the first place?! They need hurtifying...

[Meltz]

My delivery on my response was heated, yes. Taking an "I'm invincible because I was a soldier" attitude is the wrong way to approach all things. There is a modicum of outward control over circumstances in the military, but we are no longer in a "military environment." We are in an environment where red light running SUVs are more the norm, and we don't have superior numbers on our side.

and on...and on...and on...

My delivery on my response was heated, yes. Taking an "I'm invincible because I was a soldier" attitude is the wrong way to approach all things.


and on...and on...and on...

I think we all got the point from your first chapter.   

He made a quick, harmless reference to the military...why are you fixating?  You're ex-military...we get it.  Put it in your signature and drop it. 

CharliesAngel, an admittedly newer rider, posts up for a ride through some beautiful roads.  She never suggests a fast, brisk, or unsafe pace...never specifies an experience level.  There's no reason he should have felt excluded.  He politely declined an open invite and gets ripped a new one.  Then, when you're called on your rant, he gets a high & mighty lecture combined with a refusal to apologize for your misdirected hostility. 

Way to welcome the new members to the MOB. 

[Popeye the Sailor]

Hey dude!

Back off!!! Seriously, I'm new to this forum and I'm really disappointed in your posting.  I joined this forum because I had heard that most of the people here were NOT like the people who post on BARF.  Instead of criticizing Soldier, you (as a more experienced rider) should try to help him by giving him good advice (ride within your skill limits, etc). 

You mean like this?

Are you really considering following a group of experienced riders on a set of of terribly windy roads that they will absolutely fly down?

It's a recipe for riding above your limit. This is not something you should be attempting....

I'm surprised to see other people also joining your rant against a new rider.  I might be new to this forum but I've been riding for a few years.  Of all these years riding, I have found that the most helpful people are the experienced riders who would ride at a slower pace with me so that I feel comfortable within my skills.  People who criticize other riders without doing anything should keep their postings to themselves.

Hope you can change your attitude,

Delmar

As someone who's new to the forum (welcome btw), aren't you lacking the basis to tell me that 1) my attitude needs changing and 2) that I don't do anything (you didn't specify what you mean when you said "without doing anything" but I assume you meant "without doing anything to help")?

I've also organized and led a number of newbie friendly rides, not to mention I sweep a good number of the other rides. When someone screws up on a group ride, I quietly pull them aside and tell them what they're doing, and why they shouldn't be doing it.

I've helped a number of locals with their bikes, diagnosing problems. At the wrenching clinics, I show up with a bike that needs nothing, tools, and help. People show up at my apartment when they need new parts installed.

I've made special trips to help other people load their bikes.

In short, I've spent a decent number of time helping the locals and watching out for the newer riders. I'd prefer you not assume I'm some sort of jackass off of one post that rubbed you the wrong way. If nothing else, come to the next zeitgeist night, have a beer with me  , then call me a jackass.

[duckwrench13]

I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. And I stand by my word. Like me or hate me for it, that's just how it is.  There is no need to sugar coat things. 707, of all people, understands exactly where I am coming from with this.

There is a massive difference in the mentality of a soldier vs. that of a civilian. The invincibility that is, more or less, programmed into us through training is also the greatest danger to us. We feel that because we have been so highly trained, etc, that we can do anything. More often than not, it has tragic results. I could try to explain it forever, but you would never fully understand. Nor should you want to. I've watched some of my best friends, my brothers, go off and do something that was beyond their ability simply because they felt they could, and it was their end. They survived multiple deployments, only to come home and get seriously injured or killed because they "thought" they knew what they were doing. I don't feel like seeing another one go out that way.

Was I too harsh? Maybe. Depends on who you are. Like I said, 707 gets where I'm coming from. And that is the only thing that matters. In the world he and I have come from, small mistakes can have deadly results. He's made a mistake and learned from it. Will he probably make more? Sure, we all have, and still do. But now they are more likely to be honest ones and not careless ones.

 Now, as far as someguy is concerned.... He's just a jackass that thinks the world revolves around bacon and beer.

[Popeye the Sailor]

There is a massive difference in the mentality of a soldier vs. that of a civilian. The invincibility that is, more or less, programmed into us through training is also the greatest danger to us. We feel that because we have been so highly trained, etc, that we can do anything. More often than not, it has tragic results. I could try to explain it forever, but you would never fully understand. Nor should you want to. I've watched some of my best friends, my brothers, go off and do something that was beyond their ability simply because they felt they could, and it was their end. They survived multiple deployments, only to come home and get seriously injured or killed because they "thought" they knew what they were doing. I don't feel like seeing another one go out that way.

Case in point:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/06/iraq/main1282737.shtml

Many GI Deaths From Motorcycles
Off-Duty Death Toll In U.S. Tops That Of GIs Killed In Afghanistan

CAMP LEJEUNE, N.C., Feb. 6, 2006

(CBS/AP) More American troops have died on U.S. roads in off-duty motorcycle accidents after they returned from Afghanistan than have been killed fighting there since Sept. 11, 2001, safety records show.
Military commanders in North Carolina say the deaths are largely the result of boredom, bonus pay, and adrenalin to burn off after troops return from wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Nearly 350 troops have died on motorcycles since the 2001 terrorist attacks. That's compared to 259 killed while serving in Afghanistan.

Nearly 1,000 more troops have been injured on motorcycles.

Marine Lance Cpl. Mark Strickland, 24, was one of five Marines from Camp Lejeune who were involved in serious motorcycle crashes in October. Four of them had been home just a few weeks from combat in Iraq's deadly Anbar Province. Three of the Marines were killed and another lost a leg.

"When the doctor told me that he was dead, I told him that wasn't acceptable, it just wasn't acceptable," said Andrea Strickland, 22, the widow of Mark Strickland. "I said, 'He just got back from a war zone, and you're going to tell me that he died doing something he loved?' "

Lt. Gen. James F. Amos, commander of the Camp Lejeune-based II Marine Expeditionary Force described the crashes in October as "a cold shot to the heart" and ordered a crackdown. The following month normal base operations were halted to focus on safety, particularly for motorcyclists.

Camp Lejeune also added safety programs and re-emphasized existing ones. These include a mentor program Amos created that is being considered as a model for the entire Marine Corps.

The Army has not been immune to off-duty motorcycle deaths, with more than 40 in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30. The Army chief of staff issued a memo in December that urges experienced riders to cut the accident rate by mentoring beginners.