why get a Harley when you can have a Ducati

[SpikeC]

 I would buy a Harley if they sold this one here:

[lpgoldtop]

The new XR isn't too bad(sorry, wasn't too bad. another one of those bikes that handled too well for Harley to manufacture) for $12k. although I'd go for a triumph street triple for the money. they improved the cooling a bit over the stock XLs. However, that bike is no fun compared to the XR750. Then again, it's not a flat track bike...

Yes the FX/FXR was a great handling bike, but the stock 1200cc FX or 1340 FXR weren't exactly powerhouses, and as you point out they didn't weigh any less. Not to mention the suspension and brakes Harley used two plus decades ago weren't exactly state of the art either.


The late-model 1200 XLs are using heads derived from the Buell Thunderstorms, and hotter cams than your wife's 883 (when stock).

Hell, I'd argue that our current XL is the practical heir to the FX/FXR throne, at almost the same weight, slightly shorter wheelbase, more power, and better brakes.

If yours is so heavily modified it should now be pushing 100 hp. Why you wouldn't upgrade the suspension and brakes at that point I don't know, but it's easily done, and for much less than $2k.

A set of Progressive shocks in the rear (13.5" or so) for $200-300, a set of longer fork dampers ($80) and perhaps Ricors ($200) and a better caliper (perhaps a 4-pot off a BT or a PM, maybe $200-400) and you're there for less than a grand.

The only thing stock on my wife's engine is the cases. And yes, with the right EFI map, air intake, cams, pulley, tranny and 2-1 pipes it made over 100hp at the rear on a dyno(with a professional on it). They changed the pipes and tranny when she went back to riding it because it was her first bike. They also had about $3000 of suspension upgrades on when they were testing it. As for the suspension and brakes, the parts may be under $2k, but installation from a HD dealer(at least 5 hrs at $90 an hr labor) would put a substantial dent in that. it cost me $1500 to fix just the fronts on one of my FXRs.
What you have to remember about the FXR is that the frame was 3X stiffer than any other Harley. The first 2 years also had better suspension than any new stock Harley, but that disappeared when they found they could sell more as low riders. The later FXDs(there's a reason they went back to calling them just superglide, not superglide 2) and the XLs did not, do not now, and probably never will be anywhere near as stiff. Part of the reason I gave up on Harley. I love their single cam engines(pan, shovel, evo), but I got tired of scraping off pipes, foot pegs, and clutch covers pushing even their best handling bikes thru corners that my $2500(used) Suzuki Savage didn't bat an eye at.
I'm not arguing 20 year old bikes versus brand new ones. Try to E-stop a $20k 1000lb FLT with stock brakes, then try it with a $20k 800lb BMW R1200RT with stock brakes and tell me which you feel safer on.
My wife used to tell me I was crazy to prefer the FXR over a new bike, but she wouldn't ride the FXR 'cause she said it was too tall and too big. Since she's test ridden FXD and a BMW F800R she hasn't been back on her XL. Says it hurts her back and it's too top heavy. I just can't stand the way it handles...

My point is, off the showroom floor, Harley looses to another manufacture on everything besides power when comparing same class bikes(in my experience. I'm not a test rider, just an enthusiast with a lot of Harley experience). And maybe style, if Willie G's  suits you.

[Kev M]

I've ridden most of the bikes you've mentioned and a WHOLE lot more.

A late-model FLH has dual 4-pot Brembos and stops much better than you think.

Similarly a late-model Sportster with single 2-pot disc out performed a couple late model R1200Gs models in mcn. And the 2014+ Sportys have a revised brake system with larger calipers and master cylinders.

As for frame stiffness, where the hell did you think that extra weight went when they rubbermounted em? I don't believe your claims for a moment that the FXR was stiffer by any measurable amount.

Lastly, as for paying a dealer to install brakes and suspension upgrades, REALLY  


My point is that MOST people who bag on Harleys have very little experience with the models they're bagging on and/or just plain generalize too much.

[lpgoldtop]

I've ridden most of the bikes you've mentioned and a WHOLE lot more.

A late-model FLH has dual 4-pot Brembos and stops much better than you think.

Similarly a late-model Sportster with single 2-pot disc out performed a couple late model R1200Gs models in mcn. And the 2014+ Sportys have a revised brake system with larger calipers and master cylinders.

As for frame stiffness, where the hell did you think that extra weight went when they rubbermounted em? I don't believe your claims for a moment that the FXR was stiffer by any measurable amount.

Lastly, as for paying a dealer to install brakes and suspension upgrades, REALLY  

I wouldn't put the GS in the same category as the XL. The GS is an enduro-tourer off the showroom floor if you get luggage, the XL Harley claims is a "sport bike", not a "cruiser". You'd have to compare something like an FXD convertible to the GS. The sportster has to be compared to GSX, R800, Ninja, Monster... Take an experienced track rider time them on a showroom condition 1985 FXRS and any model stock XL, My money is on the FXR. I could be wrong, I usually am.(then I have to fix whatever the people that told I was wrong make the beast with two backsed up...)

quoting a cycle world article Dec 1981 Harley Davidson FXRS Cycle World Test "And like the T, there are no cast iron junctions on this frame . It's entirely welded steel tubing, with plentiful gusseting around the steering head. Compared with the old frame of the FX series, the new frame is five times stiffer, according to Harley's chief engineer." That MAY be an embellishment, but I'm inclined to take Mark Tuttle at his word. I have great respect for what his team did in the early 80's The previous FX, FLH, and XL frames were designed by trial and error. this was the first harley frame designed by certified engineers with CAD assistance. I don't have much trouble believing they made some progress. There is little structural difference between the 70's frames and modern frames of those series(exclude the XR and FLT series ). Mostly just mounting tabs. still all welded steel box.

My wife doesn't let anybody work on her bike except Zippers, and HD techs.

[Rudemouthsky]

I've ridden most of the bikes you've mentioned and a WHOLE lot more.

A late-model FLH has dual 4-pot Brembos and stops much better than you think.

Similarly a late-model Sportster with single 2-pot disc out performed a couple late model R1200Gs models in mcn. And the 2014+ Sportys have a revised brake system with larger calipers and master cylinders.

As for frame stiffness, where the hell did you think that extra weight went when they rubbermounted em? I don't believe your claims for a moment that the FXR was stiffer by any measurable amount.

Lastly, as for paying a dealer to install brakes and suspension upgrades, REALLY  


My point is that MOST people who bag on Harleys have very little experience with the models they're bagging on and/or just plain generalize too much.

I've never ridden a Harley and I never want to. I've taken 4 tours with guys on various Buells and Harleys, from the Adirondacks to Big Bend, and every single time the Buell or Harley slowed me down with various mechanical issues. Besides that I've never seen one that I didn't think was butt ass ugly. But feel free to ride what ya like and more power to ya, bubs.  

[ungeheuer]

WTF 

12% of respondents to a survey on a DUCATI MONSTER forum....  voted Harley Davidison 

We're being white-anted !!!

Mods: Track these infiltrators down and banish them forever....

before we turn into the HDMF 

 

[Skybarney]

And that one has spots, get him up against the Wall!   

 

[Convert123]

WTF 

12% of respondents to a survey on a DUCATI MONSTER forum....  voted Harley Davidison 

We're being white-anted !!!

Mods: Track these infiltrators down and banish them forever....

before we turn into the HDMF 

 

I like you... You made this all the better with this comment.

[muskrat]

I've ridden most of the bikes you've mentioned and a WHOLE lot more.

A late-model FLH has dual 4-pot Brembos and stops much better than you think.

Similarly a late-model Sportster with single 2-pot disc out performed a couple late model R1200Gs models in mcn. And the 2014+ Sportys have a revised brake system with larger calipers and master cylinders.

As for frame stiffness, where the hell did you think that extra weight went when they rubbermounted em? I don't believe your claims for a moment that the FXR was stiffer by any measurable amount.

Lastly, as for paying a dealer to install brakes and suspension upgrades, REALLY  


My point is that MOST people who bag on Harleys have very little experience with the models they're bagging on and/or just plain generalize too much.

My Electra Glide has brembos and floating rotors.    the rotors were after the purchase but that pig stops on a dime, for a 900lbs bike.  

[kopfjäger]

 

[MadDuck]

My take.

So completely different these two bikes are that the only common elements seem to be that they both have two wheels and most have disc brakes these days.

Apart from that you have to love the Harley for what it is and the same said for the Ducati, although I wouldn't be holding up a 796 as the shining representative example. Not that it is a bad bike, no, but rather not representative of the line really either.

I could, and have done some, work on Harleys and could dmake something that suits a certain need for me but the bottom line is that while some of them have some get up an go most of them do not stop, do not turn and vibrate like hell. There may be some modded to hell and back exceptions but I think that's a good summary. Ducati, for all their own particular shortcomings, is more my cup of tea but I don't think they ride on water either.   

[duc996]

Two totally different bikes to compare, i would like to own a Harely one day,but still keep my beloved monster and hyperstrada.

[koko64]

.Nice shovel Kopf.

[ducpainter]

I suppose I might own a Hardley some day...

but no way would it be the pig that is an 883 Sporty.

It does about as much, for me, as a 796.

[ungeheuer]

I suppose I might own a Hardley some day...

but no way would it be the pig that is an 883 Sporty.

It does about as much, for me, as a 796.

796 is a Ducati Monster. 

Remind me again what forum this is?