Time To Drive 55 Again?

[Le Pirate]

so what do you guys think of the fact that we import tons of oil, etc. etc....


but we're still exporting 18.something percent of the oil that is produced domestically.



I'm looking for somewhere on the web to verify this....I just heard it on NPR




edit*** I just looked it up on the DoE website. we produce along the lines of 5.1 million barrels a day, and export about 1.3 million.

[Speedbag]

so what do you guys think of the fact that we import tons of oil, etc. etc....


but we're still exporting 18.something percent of the oil that is produced domestically.



I'm looking for somewhere on the web to verify this....I just heard it on NPR




edit*** I just looked it up on the DoE website. we produce along the lines of 5.1 million barrels a day, and export about 1.3 million.

Well, now that's just silly. 

On a somewhat related note, I just learned that a mining outfit near me exports tons of sand. To the middle east. To fill depleted oil wells. 

[Le Pirate]

Well, now that's just silly. 

On a somewhat related note, I just learned that a mining outfit near me exports tons of sand. To the middle east. To fill depleted oil wells. 

[bdfinally]

I think the fact (if it is true) that we consume 25% of the worlds energy is irrelevant.

What percentage of the world's wealth do we generate?  What percentage of high-tech development is here?  .. of manufacturing? 

Last I checked, the US was the world leader in intellectual property registrations.  People even come to the US to register patents rather than in their home country. 

People come from around the world to go to business and medical school here in the USA.  Some countries don't even have business or medical schools!

This country consumes energy?  Big deal.  We produce immense amounts of useful output, products and intellectual capital.  We produce more doctors than all of Europe and Asia combined.  Our developments have spurred industries in every sector. 

25%?    That's a piffle.

Not sure how you meandered into this area from a discussion about driving 55, but I'll be your huckleberry...

From what I remember our biggest exports are weapons, culture and cardboard to China so they can ship Tivo's back to us in nice packaging. If you look around lately our shiny new service economy of the future is in the crapper and the bad news just keeps rolling down the hill...my bank lost 8.9 billion this quarter and laid 6400 people off this morning. Maybe they can go to medical school, 'cause business has failed them.

I'm proud to say we live in the greatest country the world has ever seen, but we do stupid ass shit in epic doses. So to answer your question, North America had 34% of the wealth in the world in 2000, do you think we have more or less now?

[DucDucDave]

under Bush?

Uh-oh.  Political discussion outside the Politics sub-board.  Now what do we do?

[bdfinally]

valid point...fixed it

[ducatiz]

Not sure how you meandered into this area from a discussion about driving 55, but I'll be your huckleberry...

From what I remember our biggest exports are weapons, culture and cardboard to China so they can ship Tivo's back to us in nice packaging. If you look around lately our shiny new service economy of the future is in the crapper and the bad news just keeps rolling down the hill...my bank lost 8.9 billion this quarter and laid 6400 people off this morning. Maybe they can go to medical school, 'cause business has failed them.

I'm proud to say we live in the greatest country the world has ever seen, but we do stupid ass shit in epic doses. So to answer your question, North America had 34% of the wealth in the world in 2000, do you think we have more or less now?

You're absolutely right that the US has lost a great deal of value in GDP and dollar-power in the last few years, but that doesn't change the fact that the US economy is massive -- currently far bigger than China's and they will take years to come close.  China is mostly rural and the half-dozen cities which are modern are home to no more than 50 million people. 

And yes, things are "in the crapper" but that is a relative comment.  Americans have had a full belly for so long that things like $4 gasoline and cutting back on non-necessities is seen as "being in the crapper."  Unemployment in the US hasn't spiked significantly (still at 5.5%).  The highest in the last 10 years was in June 03 at 6.3%

Maybe things are more expensive and maybe we won't be flying on our vacations as much and maybe we won't be buying those Xboxes as fast, but something tells me that if almost 95% of the workforce is working, there isn't as big of a problem as people want to think there is.

Maybe you're too young to remember but unemployment in the early 80s was as high as 11% (according to the dept of labor website).  Gas was just as expensive, relative to income and inflation.  The speed limits were 55 but it sure didn't help anything.  In fact, it was widely reported that the increase to 65 actually helped the economy, as well as the fact that cars were more efficient and safer, so the 55 mph was irrelevant.

In the crapper?  I doubt it.  The stock market is as much mental as it is physical.  When people get scared (for any reason) they hide their money under the mattress. 

I just need to look at the fact that people are still buying Xboxes to know they really aren't hurting that much. They might be buying fewer, but if things were really bad, they wouldn't buy ANY.

Raise the speed limit to 155.

[Le Pirate]

Last I checked, the US was the world leader in intellectual property registrations.  People even come to the US to register patents rather than in their home country. 

People come from around the world to go to business and medical school here in the USA.  Some countries don't even have business or medical schools!

I think these points are less and less relevant now....even less so to this discussion, but none the less:

Intellectual property rights mean little in a world where one of the most booming economies (China) doesn't give a thought to them 

and...

I live in a city out in the middle of no where texas. Oil IS the economy around here, and most people are good ole boys...roughnecks....ranch workers....etc. I was looking for a new Primary Care Provider (for my shitty blue cross blue shield insurance plan...but thats a whole other pregnant dog session) and guess where 75 percent of the doctors were educated? about 15% in mexico....and the other 60%? INDIA.


I think the US is loosing it's grip on the global powerhouse front. I mean, we still are probably "the" big power in the world...but I don't expect that to last forever. We're being caught up to.

[fwtcc]

We're being caught up to.

BAM

[ducsix]

In fact, it was widely reported that the increase to 65 actually helped the economy, as well as the fact that cars were more efficient and safer, so the 55 mph was irrelevant.

I think about it this way:

Maybe I can save 5% on mpg because I drive 55 instead of 80, so my 30 mpg car can now get 33 mpg.   At $5/gallon and around 10,000 miles/year, I've saved about $79.  Yay.

At the same time, I've just spent an extra 42 hours driving in my car at the lower speed, so my savings are $1.40 / hr.  The last time I looked at my paycheck I was making a bit more than that.

If I do the same analysis assuming I actually drive the speed limit, so the difference is between 55 mph and 65 mph, the savings do jump to a whopping $2.84 / hr. 

Now consider the average American driver:
* average income per hr = $24.10
* average miles driven per year ~ 12,000 miles
* average mpg = 17 mpg

Plug these numbers in and the savings are $5/hr, 5x lower than the average hourly pay.  So it is NOT AT ALL cost effective to reduce the speed limit, unless our goal is to cripple the productivity of the American worker.

[ducatiz]

I think about it this way:

Maybe I can save 5% on mpg because I drive 55 instead of 80, so my 30 mpg car can now get 33 mpg.   At $5/gallon and around 10,000 miles/year, I've saved about $79.  Yay.

At the same time, I've just spent an extra 42 hours driving in my car at the lower speed, so my savings are $1.40 / hr.  The last time I looked at my paycheck I was making a bit more than that.

If I do the same analysis assuming I actually drive the speed limit, so the difference is between 55 mph and 65 mph, the savings do jump to a whopping $2.84 / hr. 

Now consider the average American driver:
* average income per hr = $24.10
* average miles driven per year ~ 12,000 miles
* average mpg = 17 mpg

Plug these numbers in and the savings are $5/hr, 5x lower than the average hourly pay. So it is NOT AT ALL cost effective to reduce the speed limit, unless our goal is to cripple the productivity of the American worker.

looks like good numbers to me

I think these points are less and less relevant now....even less so to this discussion, but none the less:

Intellectual property rights mean little in a world where one of the most booming economies (China) doesn't give a thought to them 

yes and no.  The WTO and WIPO have given China a deadline for cleaning up their act with regard to IP.  Even the IMF got involved saying China is abusing their privileges as a developing economy and will impose sanctions on them.

The BIG problem is espionage.  Unfortunately, we probably have hundreds if not thousands of sleeper-type individuals who have citizenship now and plan to use their positions in science and government to spy.  There was a great article on China's intelligence and spying recently -- they use the Kremlin model, which is repeated small attacks, starting people at the base and working them up.  So a 20 year old college student is sent over, gets citizenship, marries, etc, but all the while he is a planted spy working to get clearance.

and...

I live in a city out in the middle of no where texas. Oil IS the economy around here, and most people are good ole boys...roughnecks....ranch workers....etc. I was looking for a new Primary Care Provider (for my shitty blue cross blue shield insurance plan...but thats a whole other pregnant dog session) and guess where 75 percent of the doctors were educated? about 15% in mexico....and the other 60%? INDIA.

I think the US is loosing it's grip on the global powerhouse front. I mean, we still are probably "the" big power in the world...but I don't expect that to last forever. We're being caught up to.

The foreign-physician phenomena is not just in rural areas.  The problem is that domestic-trained physicians go for high-dollar posts (which is why an endocrinologist gets about 200k in New York City, but in Jackson Mississippi, he or she would get about 400k/year (with a 5 year commitment of course).  There are so many underserved areas in the USA because people go where the money is and foreign grads are the only ppl they can hire.  You see the same thing in inner-city metropolitan hospitals (i.e. NYC's Metropolitan hospital).   

They are coming here because of the salaries.  There is a limited number of medical school grads every year because the med schools limit the number of admissions and thus, keep salaries inflated.  Problem is, again, the free market means these docs will go where the money is, and not to Bunghole, TX, where they are needed.

Some of the foreign grads are ok, but the ones I have met -- God help you.  The fact is, if you want a top notch surgeon, there is a reason people fly to the US and not to India.

[bdfinally]

You're absolutely right that the US has lost a great deal of value in GDP and dollar-power in the last few years, but that doesn't change the fact that the US economy is massive -- currently far bigger than China's and they will take years to come close.  China is mostly rural and the half-dozen cities which are modern are home to no more than 50 million people. 

And yes, things are "in the crapper" but that is a relative comment.  Americans have had a full belly for so long that things like $4 gasoline and cutting back on non-necessities is seen as "being in the crapper."  Unemployment in the US hasn't spiked significantly (still at 5.5%).  The highest in the last 10 years was in June 03 at 6.3%

Maybe things are more expensive and maybe we won't be flying on our vacations as much and maybe we won't be buying those Xboxes as fast, but something tells me that if almost 95% of the workforce is working, there isn't as big of a problem as people want to think there is.

Maybe you're too young to remember but unemployment in the early 80s was as high as 11% (according to the dept of labor website).  Gas was just as expensive, relative to income and inflation.  The speed limits were 55 but it sure didn't help anything.  In fact, it was widely reported that the increase to 65 actually helped the economy, as well as the fact that cars were more efficient and safer, so the 55 mph was irrelevant.

In the crapper?  I doubt it.  The stock market is as much mental as it is physical.  When people get scared (for any reason) they hide their money under the mattress. 

I just need to look at the fact that people are still buying Xboxes to know they really aren't hurting that much. They might be buying fewer, but if things were really bad, they wouldn't buy ANY.

Raise the speed limit to 155.

I graduated from college in '81, so yeah I remember.



I don't know about the xboxes, but I know the bottom has fallen out for cars & housing, two of the things that do drive our manufacturing base. After listening for a year that we've hit rock bottom my optimism is shot. The time to formulate plans and changes isn't after the shit has hit you in the kisser, but when you catch a whiff of it.

Anyway, the cost of driving for me is probably less than for most. My commute is 2 miles, my grocery store and drugstore are 1 mile, drycleaners around the corner, 15 restaurants within a 5 minute walk, doctor and dentist within 5 blocks. I have a feeling that if gas prices stay this high we might see the slowing or end of suburban sprawl.

[DucDucDave]

I think about it this way:

Maybe I can save 5% on mpg because I drive 55 instead of 80, so my 30 mpg car can now get 33 mpg.   At $5/gallon and around 10,000 miles/year, I've saved about $79.  Yay.

At the same time, I've just spent an extra 42 hours driving in my car at the lower speed, so my savings are $1.40 / hr.  The last time I looked at my paycheck I was making a bit more than that.

If I do the same analysis assuming I actually drive the speed limit, so the difference is between 55 mph and 65 mph, the savings do jump to a whopping $2.84 / hr. 

Now consider the average American driver:
* average income per hr = $24.10
* average miles driven per year ~ 12,000 miles
* average mpg = 17 mpg

Plug these numbers in and the savings are $5/hr, 5x lower than the average hourly pay.  So it is NOT AT ALL cost effective to reduce the speed limit, unless our goal is to cripple the productivity of the American worker.

Exactly!  When I got my "Waste of finite resources" ticket for going 65 (actually it was 74-ish) in a 55, I almost contested it on 2 grounds:

1) My car gets the same mileage at 65 as it does at 55.
2) The truly finite resource is time.

Thus, I was actually saving a finite resource.

But, since the jurisdiction is about 120 miles away and the ticket was only $85+0 points, by going to court and contesting it, I would have actually become guilty of the offense I was pleading not guilty to.  Foiled again!