Monster 696 or Street Triple?

[monzilla]

Hey guys!

I'll be buying my first 300+ cc bike soon. I'm looking at used bikes only as I'm not exactly a pro. I have found 2 used bikes which were quite good - a 2013 696 monster and a 2013 Street Triple. Rode both today. Both felt amazing. Honestly though, i'm a little inclined towards the triumph, simply because of the cost and the noise. For some reason Ducatis sell at a premium here(almost $13K for brand new) and though I love them, I don't find the extra money I have to pay(the monster is about $1600 more than the Striple).

 Also, I felt that the Triumph was louder, which is important for me as car drivers tend to be a little rash here and don't see motorcycles much often. So louder is better so they know you're coming (I know this from personal experience. I tend to check my mirrors when I hear a motorcycle!). The servicing is a just a little bit higher for the ducati I think(don't mind that though).

My major concern is that the engine is liquid cooled in the Striple. I study in India and come home every 8-10 weeks only. Atmost my dad can do a weekly startup and maybe ride for 2-3 miles, as he doesn't like riding. Since the monster has an air-cooled engine, I thought it would be better suited for long intervals between startup. Will the liquid-cooled engine generate issues? Which bike do you think I should buy?   

[DarkMonster620]

I have also ridden both, yes, I am a Ducatista, yes I am inclined towards the M696 and knowing that the M696 has ABS, has a nice torque band, very useful around town, specially with the OEM gearing . . . light and maneuverable, reach to the ground very good . ..  the Triumph felt somehow, "needy" for RPMs to be happy around town, brakes where good but, not sure of the feel they provided . . . reach to ground was OK although not 'flat footed'

Service wise, Ducati  has service every 12 000kms or once a year . . .

my 0.02

[monzilla]

So you recommend the Ducati?
What about stop start traffic riding? I've read that can be annoying with monsters, with many even referring them to "tractors". Most of my riding will be in stop start traffic.

[Kev M]

My major concern is that the engine is liquid cooled in the Striple. I study in India and come home every 8-10 weeks only. Atmost my dad can do a weekly startup and maybe ride for 2-3 miles, as he doesn't like riding. Since the monster has an air-cooled engine, I thought it would be better suited for long intervals between startup. Will the liquid-cooled engine generate issues? Which bike do you think I should buy?   

There is nothing about the difference in motors that would make one better suited between long startup intervals than the other.

Also, there is absolutely no benefit of starting and running a motor at idle periodically. Doing so causes more wear, pollutes the oil, doesn't keep the d fuel any fresher, and rarely charges the battery more than it drains. BUT IF one was to do that periodically, it's LESS DAMAGING to a water-cooled motor, which by design will at least come up to temperature faster.

[thorn14]

I have no experience with the street triple, but I share a a garage with a speed triple. Great bike, wouldn't want to do the maintenance on it myself, but I'm cheap.

I'd be more worried about the battery above anything else.  A tender would be good enough in my book.

(But I ride at least once a week so Ihave no experience with what happens when bikes sit.)

[monzilla]

Yes, that's the main thing. My dad isn't exactly a rider now, he's past his motorbiking days. The premium on the ducati is too much here. Hence I'll be mostly buying the Striple.

Hopefully get a ducati when I start working in some other country. 

[StephenC]

The Street Triple is a great bike.  I doesn't have the character of a Monster but will do everything you ask of it, without issue.  For right or wrong, I prefer my Ducati (1100S) that occasionally decides to not start, for no reason I can discern.  My main motivations for moving back to a Monster were: character, air cooled engine with no ugly pipes or radiator, death rattle clutch, it's a Ducati (and I'm a snob)!

[ab]

I have a 620 monster and triumph speed triple.  Obviously they are different class of bikes that I have. My experience, the triumph is simply powerful and reliable.  But I still love my puny monster.

[Curmudgeon]

I prefer my Ducati (1100S) that occasionally decides to not start, for no reason I can discern.

Thread detour, if it doesn't catch the first time and your battery is in good shape, walk away from it for 5 minutes and then try again. This is an 1100S trick I read three years ago because my 796 does the same. 5 minutes (not 3  ) later and it catches. Happens on mine 50/50 if it sits more than 24 hours.

My theory, it's in the starting protocal in the standard tune Siemens ECU which shuts off fuel on a no-start and the box takes ~ 5 minutes to reset. Try it and see what happens...

Of course if you HAVE to get moving right away, If you keep cranking and even give it some throttle, it'll fire. No need to subject it to that abuse IMO unless it's your "getaway vehicle". 

[Kev M]

Thread detour, if it doesn't catch the first time and your battery is in good shape, walk away from it for 5 minutes and then try again. This is an 1100S trick I read three years ago because my 796 does the same. 5 minutes (not 3  ) later and it catches. Happens on mine 50/50 if it sits more than 24 hours.

My theory, it's in the starting protocal in the standard tune Siemens ECU which shuts off fuel on a no-start and the box takes ~ 5 minutes to reset. Try it and see what happens...

Of course if you HAVE to get moving right away, If you keep cranking and even give it some throttle, it'll fire. No need to subject it to that abuse IMO unless it's your "getaway vehicle". 

Interesting highjack.

In the what, going on four years we've had the 696 it occasionally (like less than half dozen times) has failed to start.

I mention it because it did it to us last week so it's fresh in my mind. When that happens repeated attempts make it sound like it's going to catch, and there is a smell of raw fuel like it's flooding.

Every time it's happened the only thing that worked was walking away and coming back. Additional throttle while cranking didn't help (neither a little or a lot).

<shrugs>

[StephenC]

I agree, throttle seems to make no difference. Switching the ignition off, counting to ten, cursing in six different languages and trying again works... mostly. Maybe it is just the time all that takes!  Battery is brand new. I think it happens more when the tank is closer to empty (not down to reserve empty) and definitely in the cold. I was disappointed when the Street a Triple just started, without fuss, every time!

[Curmudgeon]

In the what, going on four years we've had the 696 it occasionally (like less than half dozen times) has failed to start.

The 696 has a totally different starting procedure vs a 796 and 1100S. You have a "choke". The programing of the Siemens ECU must be rather different. That tip I use was found on an 1100S forum in 2011 when I first experienced the issue. So far, it always works. Pretty sure it's in the start protocol somewhere. My ECU checks out and has no stored errors.

As for the Street, my T-100 starts with the "choke" IF I have enough voltage. That ECU is too dumb NOT to start!  With the 796, I'd guess the Euro 3 start mixture is just a hair too lean. 796's with a DP ECU fitted don't have the issue. Hint, hint... 

[StephenC]

This 1100S has the DP ECU (I think).  My old 1100S did not.  Both have the issue, on occasion.

[Kev M]

The 696 has a totally different starting procedure vs a 796 and 1100S. You have a "choke". The programing of the Siemens ECU must be rather different.

I've never bothered to dig into the manuals to see what the "choke" does.

I've not even bothered to see if there's an attached cable.

Is it a mechanical fast idle lever?

Is it a potentiometer to tell the ECU to enrichen the mixture?

I don't even know what the idle speed control mechanism is on these. Is there a stepper motor? I wouldn't think there would be a stepper motor if there's a mechanical fast idle lever.

I know the selling dealer salesman didn't know either but THOUGHT it was electronic and that the sequence was important. I.E. you had to actuate the lever AFTER you turned on the key and pressed the stop/run switch to the correct position or it wouldn't do it's job.

I've not ridden it enough to play with or question that.

But maybe it's time I do.

[Curmudgeon]

Read the owner's manual. The starting procedure is exclusive to 696 and I've heard it's important. No personal experience; only heard that owners had a lot of trouble starting if that procedure was not followed.