Canister and dyno whingeing

[HotIce]

Will the CA version have the evap crappister?

[thorn14]

If we are lucky that's all it will have.

[ducatiz]

Will the CA version have the evap crappister?

All US-spec versions have to have the charcoal evap canister.... as shipped.... :-)

[Kev M]

All US-spec versions have to have the charcoal evap canister.... as shipped.... :-)

Are you sure? I thought that was only fifty state versions. I.E. only ones that meet CARB standards. In under the impression US EPA standards for MCycles don't yet require it (has that changed?).

[Curmudgeon]

Are you sure? I thought that was only fifty state versions. I.E. only ones that meet CARB standards. In under the impression US EPA standards for MCycles don't yet require it (has that changed?).

50 state, as is most stuff these days. My 2011 796 had it. Ditched at 1st service and left oil cooler shroud replaced with the EC plastic. http://motowheels.com/i-6921561-ducati-air-deflector-left-side-m696-m1100.html

[Triple J]

Are you sure? I thought that was only fifty state versions. I.E. only ones that meet CARB standards. In under the impression US EPA standards for MCycles don't yet require it (has that changed?).

Bikes have all had the charcoal canisters for years. I've never bought one in CA, and they've all had the canister.

[Kev M]

Bikes have all had the charcoal canisters for years. I've never bought one in CA, and they've all had the canister.

I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear.  ALL BRANDS? My Guzzi and Duc are, but I don't think Harleys or JAPanInc is yet?

Is Indian/VIC?

Triumph?

[HotIce]

All US-spec versions have to have the charcoal evap canister.... as shipped.... :-)

The $1M question is, are those shown in the pictures the EU versions, or are the US ones and magically the crappister is hidden somewhere?
In the DNA video, I see no crappister, unless they cheated and used a EU version.

[twolanefun]

Are you sure? I thought that was only fifty state versions. I.E. only ones that meet CARB standards. In under the impression US EPA standards for MCycles don't yet require it (has that changed?).

Read it all here http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420f03045.pdf better article here http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/313/1572/Motorcycle-Article/Motorcycle-Emissions-Regs-Examined.aspx

Ducati's monsters have had that evap cannister since at least 2006.

And yes Victory's have had both an evap cannister and catalytic converters. My 04' Kingpin nor my 01' Sportcruiser have either but all the new motors do I think since 07'. From what I've read the evap has not effect on performance, it's a cosmetic issue. The cat on Victory's usually go away with the addition of aftermarket exhaust, which technically is not legal. The only complaint I have is the excessive heat all the bikes have now and this is directly related to meeting the emissions standards. - Gene

[thorn14]

Read it all here Ducati's monsters have had that evap cannister since at least 2006.

2002 as my 02 had one. Fell off somewhere down the road... 

[Triple J]

I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear.  ALL BRANDS? My Guzzi and Duc are, but I don't think Harleys or JAPanInc is yet?

Is Indian/VIC?

Triumph?

Aprilia, Ducati, Guzzi, and KTM are the ones I know about...all yes.

[Kev M]

Read it all here http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420f03045.pdf better article here http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/313/1572/Motorcycle-Article/Motorcycle-Emissions-Regs-Examined.aspx

Ducati's monsters have had that evap cannister since at least 2006.

And yes Victory's have had both an evap cannister and catalytic converters.

I appreciate the links, but they don't actually answer the question unless I'm missing something.

The closest it gets is that FAQ sheet from the EPA says:

How closely do the new rules follow the California
rules?
The new rules directly parallel the California model with several exceptions.
First, we proposed regulations to control permeation emissions - a
type of evaporative emission in which fuel is lost through permeation of
plastic fuel tanks and fuel hoses. California currently has more stringent
evaporative emission control regulations, which in some cases require
the use of a charcoal canister on the motorcycle to receive fuel vapors.
We expect California to maintain these provisions. Second, we proposed
standards for motorcycles with engines less than 50cc displacement. Like
the current federal regulations, California does not regulate these two wheelers,
though we expect they will ultimately choose to harmonize
with federal regulations for these vehicles. Third, we proposed to alter
the timing, making federal standards effective after manufacturers have
had two years of experience meeting new emission limits in California

That points out what we already knew, that at the time CARB required EVAP canisters while Feds did not.

It doesn't clearly state that the Feds are adding such a requirement.

Even if they don't (and maybe they do know, I'm not saying they don't), it's not surprising that some, especially smaller volume manufacturers like Guzzi or Ducati would have required it on all bikes to simply make them 50 state compliant.

I thought I was still hearing an occasional debate from people whether they could bring a late-model JAPanInc. bike into CA because of possible lack of compliance. If everything marketed in the US was 50 state compliant since say 2007 or so as you seem to be saying, then those conversations should all be over by now.

That said, some of my google searches seem to suggest that in the end the EPA just wound up adopting CA standards at some point, so maybe all new bikes are 50 state compliant at this point because of it.

I dunno, my last two new ones 2011 and 2014 were 50 state compliant but I just figured it was because of the low volume thing.

Hmmm, guess I'll have to pay more attention next time I look at a new Harley or Triumph to see if I can ferret out the canisters.

BTW, I'm very familiar with the tech of the systems and am not questioning their impact on overall performance of the bike.

I was just literally not aware that the whole market may have moved to 50 state compliance (something that I think was overdue, but perhaps I'm not thrilled we've handed over such a large part of our own regulations to ONE state if you know what I mean, but that's a whole separate conversation).

[Curmudgeon]

I'm not thrilled we've handed over such a large part of our own regulations to ONE state if you know what I mean, but that's a whole separate conversation).

It's been that way with cars since ~ 1996. Agreed with you X10+, but nothing will change unless the EPA is abolished or the Pacific Coast moves to Reno. 

[ducatiz]

The issue for Ducati is that they make bikes certified to CARB because making them in two versions would mean having to get two separate EPA certs.

IN order to get a CARB cert, you have to get an EPA cert first.  $$$$

Any changes in the model's emissions profile means it has to be retested and recertified.  $$$$$

For car makers, this isn't an issue because of volume.  Likewise larger bike manufacturers, however, most just make one model certified for CARB.

Ducati saves money by getting their bikes certified for EPA and CARB and letting it lie.  Removing the charcoal evap is a grey area of EPA regs

[ducatiz]

It's been that way with cars since ~ 1996. Agreed with you X10+, but nothing will change unless the EPA is abolished or the Pacific Coast moves to Reno. 

lol where is Lex Luthor when you need him?