Making the move from Harley to Ducati - what to expect?

[DucHead]

Were you thinking about parking and economics when you bought your S4R?

hmmmm?

Parking was at the top of the list.  Red bikes are a tad easier to park.

[Kev M]

How about hearing from a long time Harley, BMW, Guzzi guy who also has a Duc and a Buell?

First let me directly answer the questions or point you've been told:

The same questions I'm asking here I've asked of the R Nine T guys on a different site, and (predictably enough) they all said the Monster is an okay bike, but I'll probably be happier on the BMW. The reasons: A) Seating position is less aggressive and will be easier for me to adjust to. B) More forgiving brakes. C) The R Nine T has a lot of low end grunt and doesn't need to live in higher revs, making it vastly more manageable at low speeds, in the city, or for a rider new to this kind of bike. D) The BMW will be more reliable and less expensive over the long run.

A. Seating position on both the Monster and the 9T (I've stood the later up but not ridden it) are, for all intents and purposes the same (i.e. are both radically different from a Dyna). You are going to have to figure out if EITHER works for you long term. Best way to do that is a rental of something similar, spend a day or a weekend. Or at least try to get a demo ride (maybe on something used).

But for example, the seating position of my Harleys (mostly Sportys, but I've had Dynas and an RK around too) or some of my Guzzis (California, or V7) are basically the same. You sit upright, knees in front of you and about right in front of your hips, feet somewhere below the knees, maybe a tad forward or tad behind. This is VERY different from the seating position of a Monster, 9T, or a plethora of other Sport or Sport touring bikes (like my old BMW R1100RS) where your knees are below your hips, feet tucked somewhere behind your knees.

The later position tempts you to put weight on your wrists, can lock your knees into a position that cramps after 100 miles or so (used to be 200 miles or so, but I'm getting older I guess) and distributes your weight more towards your crotch than your butt. Also depending upon your upper body this position CAN put more strain on your neck.

Some people are fine with either position, some prefer one or the other. IF you're going to sell the Harley and ONLY have the Duc or BMW, then you should probably find out if the later is good for you. The only way to do that is spend a day or two riding something with that position.

As much as I've ridden in the later position (easily over 100k miles) I've found over the years that I really just prefer the former position (I've easily got double the miles in it). I put 100 miles on the Duc yesterday and as much as I do love it, my left leg was cramping up by halfway through that. Granted the 696 is smaller and even more aggressive a position than you're talking about, and I COULD do something about it with a better seat. But then again, the Buell with the Corbin does it to me too...as did my Guzzi Breva 1100 with what was probably one of the best motorcycle seats I've ever owned. The seat didn't change the legs being basically locked into that bent position.

B. The brakes on either the Duc or the BMW are not MORE FORGIVING. Hell, if they don't have ABS they are LESS forgiving. They are more powerful and have better feel and you will probably come to prefer them over what you feel on the Harley. That said, unless you're going to become a road racer the difference between the Duc or BMW probably doesn't matter in the least.

C. BAH, probably much ado about nothing. They're both twins. They're both twins that like to live at revs a couple thousand higher than what you are used to on a BT. So whereas you're used to putting around a 2-3k, the BMW might like to live at say 4k and the Duc closer to 5k... big deal. You would get used to either. Around town or at low speeds you simply slip the clutch when necessary. If the rpm range of the Duc is an issue it IS a chain drive bike so you would have the option of changing final drive ratio to gear it down if you wanted anyway. If you've owned a couple of Harleys (and hopefully that means you've ridden them 10's of thousands of miles not just OWNED them) then you're not a newbie and you'll learn either just fine. This isn't rocket science.

D. FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. Ducs have become more and more reliable over the years so that it seems to me they are damn near bulletproof if given reasonable maintenance. BMWs have become less and less reliable over the years (late-models having CANbus issues or exploding final drives). I know more than one FORMER fellow BMW owner who has moved on to other brands. And IF you rely on dealers for service it's not like BMW has the reputation for being cheap. I'll say this, our Duc (a relatively low mileage member of our fleet) has literally been FLAWLESS. I think the biggest thing you'll need to ask yourself is how you feel about cleaning/waxing/checking/adjusting a chain every 500-1k miles vs. an otherwise nearly maintenance free shaft drive (personally I hate chains but they're the price of admission for a Duc). AND if you plan on doing more than just oil changes yourself do you want to tackle the timing belts and valves of a Duc vs. the relatively easier valve adjustments of the BMW (at least the damn heads are sticking out there).


I'll say this. In all the years I owned BMWs I TRIED and TRIED to click with them. But I ALWAYS sold them because they were too vanilla, too sterile, too appliance-like. The longest I ever kept one was my R1100RSa because it was so damn useful (fairing, adjustable windshield, adjustable seat, adjustable grips, heated grips, ABS, etc.) and I STILL got rid of it by 40k miles.

The Ducati motor has SO much more character. The smile/mile factor. It sounds and feels wonderful as opposed to the relative balanced sewing machine of the opposed BMW twin. And don't get me wrong, I may buy another BMW one of these days, I do appreciate the efficiency of that twin. But compared to the Duc forget about it.

I will say this, not to bugger your plans or anything. I'll throw another wrench into the mix. Have you considered a Moto Guzzi Griso? The BMW 9T is basically a Griso wannabe anyway. But the Griso is a little more upright, has a proven final drive, and has that Italian character and Panache.

Well, that's all I've got for now... ask away if there's something more you want to know.

Kev

PS - can you keep the Harley? Trust me, it's nice to have both.

[SDRider]

If you think the BMW is too small, I doubt you'll find any Monster feeling bigger.

I never understood this sentiment.  Motorcycles are smaller, easier to park, overall more economical, less expensive to operate, easier to work on and more fun.  Makes perfect sense to me.  </shrugs>

Than what?  A Ferrari?

My Camry Hybrid is way less expensive to operate than my Ducati.

[Travman]

Stop using your head and use your gut.
Motorcycles are visceral and make no sense.

+ 1

I didn't think it was hard going from Harley brakes to Ducati or BMW brakes. Just remember that now you will use 2 fingers instead of all 5 fingers.

[El-Twin]

Stop using your head and use your gut.
Motorcycles are visceral and make no sense.

Agreed.

Motorcycles are objects of the heart, not the head. If one was to be perfectly rational, then riding wouldn't be part of the game plan in the first place.

Go with what moves you.

[Kev M]

Agreed.

Motorcycles are objects of the heart, not the head. If one was to be perfectly rational, than riding wouldn't be part of the game plan in the first place.

Go with what moves you.

+1 Brazilian.

EVERYTIME I've bought with my head over my heart that bike got sold a lot sooner and with fewer miles than one I've bought with my heart.

[DM426]

Kev, thanks for all the detailed information. That was very helpful.

I have no experience dealing with chains. How much of a pain is it to do the regular maintenance on that? Are a lot of special tools or stands required, or is it something that's pretty straightforward and easy to do?

As for keeping both bikes, I could probably do that if I wanted to. But to be honest, if I get a BMW or Ducati as a fun bike, then I would want to trade the Dyna for a Street Glide or something more suitable for longer rides.

I definitely want to get a test ride on the Monster if I can. Several people here have also mentioned the Diavel, and I did see one at the dealer and it's a very cool bike (in a Batman sort of way). I sat on it for a moment and I get that the riding position is a bit more familiar to me, which isn't an altogether bad thing. But the sheer power of that bike is a bit intimidating, especially coming from the cruiser world... Not that the Monster isn't also a seriously powerful bike.

[Kev M]

I have no experience dealing with chains. How much of a pain is it to do the regular maintenance on that? Are a lot of special tools or stands required, or is it something that's pretty straightforward and easy to do?

It's NOT difficult at all. But you do have to keep on top of it.

Technically you're supposed to clean and oil (or wax, I like wax) it every 500 miles OR after every time you ride in the rain.

You don't NEED anything special, though a wheel stand or a wheel roller is handy. I've got a small portable wheel roller from Aerostich that I used for years:

http://www.aerostich.com/wheel-jockey.html

just under $60



If you don't want one that is portable you can get something at Cycle Gear for half that price (and more than double that size).

I've finally got a bike lift with a drop out rear panel and a roller plate so I can do it there too which is even more convenient.

I think many people all but ignore their chains and leave them alone for thousands of miles at a time.

I guess it depends on conditions (how wet, how dusty/dirty etc.) how well you get away with that.

Personally though belts are set and forget, and shafts you just change the oil, and I like that.

But maybe that's because when you're maintaining 4-5 bikes it's just nice to have fewer tasks to worry about.

A CENTERSTAND would have been nice though 

I definitely want to get a test ride on the Monster if I can. Several people here have also mentioned the Diavel, and I did see one at the dealer and it's a very cool bike (in a Batman sort of way). I sat on it for a moment and I get that the riding position is a bit more familiar to me, which isn't an altogether bad thing. But the sheer power of that bike is a bit intimidating, especially coming from the cruiser world... Not that the Monster isn't also a seriously powerful bike.

Ironically as someone who prefers the cruiser riding position a bit more I didn't really like the Diavel.

I road it back-to-back with the new Guzzi California 1400 at FBF when they first came out.

The Diavel is a wonder of a motor and I liked it MORE after riding it, but I don't love the looks and the riding position feels like an uber-scooter to me. I'm sure it's a fantastic bike and those who buy them seem to love them so I can't fault it there. But it just wasn't "me".

Which, in the end, is what you really need to figure out - what is "you" and that's all that matters.

But for ME, I figure if we're gonna own a Ducati, it might as well be a Monster which is closer to the style/performance and yes, riding position, that for which Ducati is known.

Though maybe if we owned a Diavel I would chose to ride the Duc more often than the Harley or Guzzi.

[SDRider]

Kev, thanks for all the detailed information. That was very helpful.

I have no experience dealing with chains. How much of a pain is it to do the regular maintenance on that? Are a lot of special tools or stands required, or is it something that's pretty straightforward and easy to do?

As for keeping both bikes, I could probably do that if I wanted to. But to be honest, if I get a BMW or Ducati as a fun bike, then I would want to trade the Dyna for a Street Glide or something more suitable for longer rides.

I definitely want to get a test ride on the Monster if I can. Several people here have also mentioned the Diavel, and I did see one at the dealer and it's a very cool bike (in a Batman sort of way). I sat on it for a moment and I get that the riding position is a bit more familiar to me, which isn't an altogether bad thing. But the sheer power of that bike is a bit intimidating, especially coming from the cruiser world... Not that the Monster isn't also a seriously powerful bike.

I've ridden it and it is an easy bike to ride.  Handling is excellent, brakes are excellent, chassis and engine are also excellent.  I'm pretty sure it has 4 power setting modes too so you can tame it to make less power if you feel overwhelmed by the thrust that engine generates.  I was amazed by it but never overwhelmed by it.  If you really crack that throttle though you will definitely feel how powerful it is.

For chain maintenance I have a Pit Bull rear stand.  Makes chain maintenance a breeze.  The only drawback is time and it is messy.

Edit-Looks like it has 3 power modes:

When the bike is stationary, this TFT panel allows the rider to choose among the Diavel’s three modes, which remain the same for 2015: Sport (162 hp, “full-on” throttle response, minimal traction-control intervention), Touring (162 hp, smoother power delivery, more TC intervention) and Urban (100 hp, easier power delivery, more active TC).

[Kev M]

+1 to SD.

I've ridden a number of high hp bikes (like approaching 200 hp) and never once felt intimidated by them. Granted, I never really pushed them (I just don't have the skill or a suitable environment), but I ridden them more than around the block.

I think once you get over the first couple of years of riding developing basic clutch control, coordination for throttle/shifting, a sense of balance etc., then there probably aren't many bikes that would be intimidating anymore... at least approaching legal paces.

[Speedbag]

Looks like Kev saved me a shitload of typing.  

I'm 6'1", and my old M900 was on the verge of being cramped. Otherwise, I had no problems adapting to it. I kind of wish I had kept mine, and if I ever win the lottery a new Monster 1200S is on the short list....

[stonemaster]

the main thing for me was getting used to the weight difference, it freaked me a little at first how lite a duc was in comparison but after u get past that they are a blast

[Speedbag]

Or you could find yourself one of these: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2006-harley-davidson-vrscr

These days they're cheap. Closest to the best of both worlds you will find. Love mine, it's a keeper.

[Curmudgeon]

Never DID "get" the Hardley thing, so totally UN-qualified to comment. I AM surprised that no one has suggested looking at a 1200S vs the newest 2015 R1200R..., which, wait for it, even has a REAL fork!  The old ones have a decent record I believe and you can hang OEM bags and tail case on it if the need arises. R-Nine-T has always impressed me as a marketing gimmick rather than a workhorse, and the specs are well below this new R1200R. Weights 40# more than a 1200S though which still has better specs but will cost a bit more to maintain I'd guess.

No idea when these will hit showrooms though. A good dealer should offer a ride as Ducati dealers do with a 1200S. http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/bmw/bmw_r1200r%2015.htm

[Kev M]

Meh. I just figure if he's aware of the 9T he's probably considered the rest of the line.