'11 796 not starting, no neutral light

[Howie]

I don't understand what you are saying here 

okay, so I fiddled with the bike in my best effort to record what may or may not be working.
the same happened hitting the start button in both neutral and in gear:
   kickstand down- no clutch=0  clutch=0
   kickstand up-     no clutch=0  clutch=1

but if the solenoid clicks the switches are not your problem nor is the DP computer.  Either your battery is not up to snuff or there is high resistance in the starter circuit.  Start with fully charging the battery and having it load tested to eliminate it as a possible cause. 

This is a problem you could be having with your BMW or even your Toyota Corolla.

[teddy037.3]

I don't understand what you are saying here

sorry, should have noted that 0=nothing, and 1=something (in this case, the solenoid)

  but if the solenoid clicks the switches are not your problem nor is the DP computer.  Either your battery is not up to snuff or there is high resistance in the starter circuit.  Start with fully charging the battery and having it load tested to eliminate it as a possible cause.  

This is a problem you could be having with your BMW or even your Toyota Corolla.

objectively, I know it's not the DP's fault... I'm just superstitious like that sometimes. and the bmw comment is related to a whole lot of other things about the bike, not just because it won't start now.  I was also in a very bad mood while ranting at carlos.


if the switches weren't an issue, wouldn't I have heard the solenoid click while in neutral no matter what?  trying to start the bike in neutral, the thing was behaving the same as if it were in gear, which is why there was discussion about switches in the first place. I was just trying to do what I could to sort it out.  my earlier posts were pretty vague, so i'm trying to be more specific.


in older posts I mentioned that I had recharged the battery, and the bike was running fine on it.  the day that the shit went down, I took it out for a ride, stopped later at the bank, and then it wouldn't start again, and I noticed the N light was off.  before I ended up calling for a tow, I had removed the battery, caught a ride home to top up the charge, and took it back to the bike to see if it would start up again.

[Howie]

OK.  The bike will not start with the side stand down and no neutral light.  This issue must be fixed if you want the bike to run with the sidestand down.  That is the way it should be.  It should start if the clutch lever is pulled to the grip as long as the side stand is up.  If it is not starting and you hear a click from the solenoid you have another issue, as I stated, battery or high resistance in the starter circuit.  First step is always charge and load test.  Voltage is just state of charge, not condition.  Yes, it could be the starter too, but I doubt it.  Eliminating the starter as a problem is easy.  Make absolutely sure the bike is in neutral.  Apply battery voltage straight to the terminal on the starter.  It should now spin.  If not, the starter is bad or the engine is seized.

Neutral light problem?  On your bike I am not sure.  Common is ground, neutral light on.  Pull wire from switch, ground.  If light now comes on the switch is bad.  Some later Ducatis are opposite, ground turns the light off.  If that is the case, pulling the wire off the switch should cause the neutral light to work.  Like I said, not sure what you have.  Maybe Speeddog or Brad Black can help.

[teddy037.3]

ok, so it's probably no surprise by now that I am a total nub to electrics and such.

just picked up this guy from the auto parts store.

I had removed my battery from the bike this morning (1000 ish) w/the intention to charge it, but it barely sat on the tender for like an hour before the green light came on.  it's been about 7 hours since I unplugged the tender and just checked it using the 'battery load test' and it reads 12.6 with a green light.  am I doing this right?  

if I am, is there anything else I should look at before putting it back on the bike? also, after?

[Speeddog]

Load testing a battery requires specialized equipment, such as these units (as well as more fancy versions):

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200611634_200611634?cm_mmc=Google-pla-_-Automotive-_-Automotive%20Diagnostics-_-37800&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=37800&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=37800&gclid=CKywjvTOusICFapDMgodoiYAUw

http://www.zoro.com/i/G7620444/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&gclid=CKfhi-zPusICFYg-MgodFkAAYw

A good moto shop or car shop should have one.
Moto shop is more likely to have one suited to the relatively low power of moto batteries.

When you turn the key on, does the neutral light come on briefly (along with the other idiot lights)?

Have you 'cycled' (unplugged/plugged) the connector where the neutral light connects to the harness?

Pull the seat off, and trace the ground wire from the negative terminal all the way down to where it's bolted to the motor.
Take that bolt out, then with a wire brush, clean the lug on the end of the wire, clean where the lug contacts the crankcase, apply a little dielectric grease , and reinstall the bolt.

See what that does, and report back.

[teddy037.3]

ah, good to know!

yes, all the lights work when turning the bike on, it just doesn't light up when putting the bike into neutral.

will try the trace and clean, thanks speed!

[teddy037.3]

update.

N light works. sort of.  It stays on once I turn the bike on, but when I press the start button, the light goes out, and still only the solenoid is clicking.  then it sometimes comes back on erratically.  shifting the weight of the bike off/on the stand, for example.

if I don't try to start the bike, the light behaves normally (turns off in gear, turns back on in N).

now what?  *trying to stay positive, here... but it's proving difficult*

[SpikeC]

 I hate to say this, butt it sounds like a bad battery.........Maybe just one bad cell?

[teddy037.3]

I hate to say this, butt it sounds like a bad battery.........Maybe just one bad cell?

possibly?  google research tells me that 12.6v is the minimum for a 'good' battery.  just ran outside to check it (it's been back on the bike since this morning when I was fiddling w/it earlier), and it was reading 12.45...

the neutral light thing is still baffling me, though 

[DarkMonster620]

teddy, voltage is not equal to charge . . . charge is measured in Amps . . . Volts just inform you of the battery's "state of mind"  . . . sorta

I had a LiOn battery with 12.8V and it was as dead as it could get . . . absolutely NO charge, which means NO AMPS

[teddy037.3]

I'm gonna get a new batt anyway... so we'll see I guess

[electricpete]

Teddy- unless you're in a sweat to buy a new battery, try the following four steps- they're easy and don't cost anything.
1- Make absolutely sure that your cable connections to the battery are clean and snug.
2- Take your shiny new, handy-dandy multimeter, set on DCvolts, and put it across the battery.  Should read around 13V.
3- Switch the ignitiion on, so the headlight comes on, and read the voltage across the battery...should settle, after a few seconds, at around 12V and should drop one-tenth of a volt every 20 -30 seconds because of the power consumed by the headlight.
NOW, make sure the NEUTRAL light is lit...
4- While the meter is across the battery, hit the starter switch...the battery voltage should drop further to around 11V.....
If, during step 3, the voltage drops much below 11 or 12V, your battery is likely shot.....
If, during step 4 the voltage takes a serious drop, say below 8V, your battery is likely shot...that may be why your starter won't spin the engine...
If, during step 4 the voltage doesn't drop below step 3 voltage, you've got a problem with the starter circuit, probably one of the interlocks, ie the sidestand circuit, the Neutral circuit, or the clutch lever circuit....that may be why your starter won't spin the engine...

Anyway...for what it's worth...

Peter

[Howie]

Your symptoms are a lack of power to the starter motor.  Enough to lite the lights, including the neutral light, just a few amps.  Hit the button, now up to 80 amps are needed to spin the engine.  Voltage drops, solenoid clicks, lights go out.

Buy a battery on a guess and maybe still have the problem?  Not wise.  Electricpete's test is a good shade tree method.  Fully charge and load test is better.  Always start with testing the battery.  Further diagnosis without doing the first step is like pissing up a rope.  Battery tests good?  Then you need diagnose further to find the cause.  This video will help you.  It is for cars, but the same applies.     After you fix the bike, make sure it is charging properly.  You should read 13.5-14.5 volts across the battery at about 3K RPM.  Less, you are undercharging.  More, you are overcharging.

Do consider the option of getting the bike to a good shop.

[teddy037.3]

Teddy- unless you're in a sweat to buy a new battery, try the following four steps- they're easy and don't cost anything.
1- Make absolutely sure that your cable connections to the battery are clean and snug.

They are.



2- Take your shiny new, handy-dandy multimeter, set on DCvolts, and put it across the battery.  Should read around 13V.

12.4-12.6



3- Switch the ignitiion on, so the headlight comes on, and read the voltage across the battery...should settle, after a few seconds, at around 12V and should drop one-tenth of a volt every 20 -30 seconds because of the power consumed by the headlight.

12.2



NOW, make sure the NEUTRAL light is lit...

it works, for now...  



4- While the meter is across the battery, hit the starter switch...the battery voltage should drop further to around 11V.....

11.99



If, during step 3, the voltage drops much below 11 or 12V, your battery is likely shot.....
If, during step 4 the voltage takes a serious drop, say below 8V, your battery is likely shot...that may be why your starter won't spin the engine...
If, during step 4 the voltage doesn't drop below step 3 voltage, you've got a problem with the starter circuit, probably one of the interlocks, ie the sidestand circuit, the Neutral circuit, or the clutch lever circuit....that may be why your starter won't spin the engine...

which was why I tried checking to see when the bike would do anything as far as ruling out switches were concerned the other day.  assuming the bike knew it was in neutral, it should start w/the kickstand down or up, and either with the clutch pulled or not.  assuming the bike knew it was in gear, it should *not* start w/the stand down, or stand up and no clutch. it should only start in gear w/the stand up, and clutch pulled, correct?

because that's how it behaved, as far as hearing the solenoid clicking (like the bike was in gear), with the bike actually in gear, or in neutral. and this was before the neutral light decided it was going to work this morning.

[teddy037.3]

Do consider the option of getting the bike to a good shop.

that's been in OP

well... idk about good. more like only (dealership).