HD 500

[kopfjäger]

Stopped at the shop today, they had a few of the new 500's.

[krolik]

Not too bad looking for an entry level HD scoot.

[kopfjäger]

Not too bad looking for an entry level HD scoot.

It's got potential to be a hoot, plus easy to handle for new drivers.

[reverus]

msrp 6,799... after dealer mark up more like 8k. after they sell you a bunch of HD shoelaces maybe closer to 10k,

hp rating 33.5.    

I almost got duped into a similar situation looking at the HD 48, pretty bike. But when you look at the cost for what you are getting I think it's HD really taking advantage of people There's just no need to charge people that much money for a bike with that level of tech.

So, i guess im saying, I agree, a new rider would enjoy owning that.. 10k would get you SOOO much more in almost any other brand. It's just crazy to me that people still buy these things. 

Sorry not being a mindless HD hater, I just dont understand it.

[Ducatamount]

A good move on Harley's part to bring in new riders and build brand loyalty.

[koko64]

From the side view, the rear section has a bit of the old Night Train styling about it.

[Kev M]

msrp 6,799... after dealer mark up more like 8k. after they sell you a bunch of HD shoelaces maybe closer to 10k,

hp rating 33.5.    

I almost got duped into a similar situation looking at the HD 48, pretty bike. But when you look at the cost for what you are getting I think it's HD really taking advantage of people There's just no need to charge people that much money for a bike with that level of tech.

So, i guess im saying, I agree, a new rider would enjoy owning that.. 10k would get you SOOO much more in almost any other brand. It's just crazy to me that people still buy these things.  

Sorry not being a mindless HD hater, I just dont understand it.

Actually, maybe you're not being a hater, but I would argue mindless  

I say this as a 5 time purchaser of NEW Harleys, including two during the waiting list years (in the 90s).

I have NEVER paid a markup on a new Harley, and I've paid as much as $2k OFF MSRP, with no freight/prep.

So have a number of my friends.

Now that's not to say that there haven't been (and probably still are) some ridiculous HD dealers who force mark-ups and/or install accessories on bikes sitting on the showroom floor then it is take-it or leave-it. BUT there are so many frickin' HD dealers in the US there's no reason to settle for that.

Hell, Cycletrader has 2700+ HD 500 Streets listed by Harley dealers for MSRP

http://www.cycletrader.com/Harley--Davidson-Street-Motorcycles----CycleTrader.com/search-results?condition=N&make=Harley--Davidson|2316294&model=Street|764956124&schemecode=AD&sort=price%3Aasc&type=356953&&year=2015%3A*&modelkeyword=1&

As for the Sportster and "level of tech".

What do you consider "tech"?

Don't assume that just because a motorcycle is steel framed (not aluminum) and is built for low rpm torque and not peaky hp that it is somehow less advanced in basic technology. And let's face it, what is advanced tech? What is cutting edge? Desmo valves certainly aren't? ABS? (that's old hat), Ride-By-Wire? (even this is becoming commonplace). Hell, Variable Valve Timing is decades old? What is really tech?

That Sportster (I've got a real soft spot for the Sportys) is a great example.

The current models have CanBus electrics, ABS, keyless operation with proximity sensor keys fobs, etc.

And they are seriously overbuilt. Like a truck chassis they are built to last and be rebuilt in a way that light sportbikes are not.

Over the years (and over more than 100k miles) I've hit PLENTY of horrible potholes on a number of Harleys and have NEVER EVER damaged a rim.

I hit ONE stinkin' pothole on my wife's Duc and $1200 Brembo Wheel was trashed!

I get it, there's a reason for the difference. I celebrate the differences and enjoy the lightness and handling of her awesome Monster.

But I also get why Harleys are what they are... and the Sportster is a great bike, definitely worth the money (which is really, not much different money than I spent on our last Guzzi, or last Duc).

[rufus1138]

my beef with the Harleys is that they're too damn heavy for a two wheeled vehicle to have an acceptable safety margin on the street, look at stopping distance on the Harley flhtxptdhrzpwex model (or whatever you pick out on craigslist as an example) its 103 inches of motor in 1k pounds of bike on the same or less contact patch as a monster 1200s (more power less than half the weight) Yamaha fz1 (also more power and half ish weight) I can keep going but there isn't much point, I know toooo many Harley guys who used to ride and stopped cuz they had no choice one day on the highway and had to lay a Harley down cuz some trucker jackknifed or some crap, its always the same root tho, the bike was too heavy, if they had been on anything 400lbs or under (easily reasonable for a bike) they would have been able to maneuver out of the situation without any problems.

[Speedbag]

Well put, Kev.

Me, I'd like to buy a dumped 750 version cheap and build a custom similar to the one I've posted elsewhere here, only with more sporting wheels/tires. 

[Kev M]

my beef with the Harleys is that they're too damn heavy for a two wheeled vehicle to have an acceptable safety margin on the street, look at stopping distance on the Harley flhtxptdhrzpwex model (or whatever you pick out on craigslist as an example) its 103 inches of motor in 1k pounds of bike on the same or less contact patch as a monster 1200s (more power less than half the weight) Yamaha fz1 (also more power and half ish weight) I can keep going but there isn't much point

OK, no question that Harleys are heavyweight bikes. Though I honestly think that provides a slight advantage in highway travel and heavy crosswinds or buffeting.

That said it extracts a cost in braking distances, though they are a lot better than some people often assume.

Motorcycle Consumer News (MCN) generally lists their 60-0 braking distances in the 110s-130s foot range, perhaps most often in the 120-130 end of that range.

MCN generally lists the same spec for Ducati in the high 100's-to high 120's range.

That's honestly not that big a difference ESPECIALLY if you consider the type of riding that a Harley is generally going to be used for vs. the type of riding that a Ducati is (i.e. more laid back touring and backroad riding than attacking the twisties).

It's interesting to note that an early rubbermount Sportster with a single dual-pot Nissin front disc brake OUTPERFORMED a number of late-model BMW R1200GS's THAT WEIGHED LESS AND HAD DUAL BREMBOS!

One of the reasons for this is that the low weight and relatively long wheelbase of a Harley allows the rear brake to contribute more than on a sportbike even if the fronts still do most of the work.

Now I upgraded the brakes on my current Sportster to duals because I am more likely to ride it more spirited than most HD riders.

But Harley has always offered at least one or two bikes in their lineup that perform a little better with those metrics.

And to their credit they HAVE actually upgraded brakes on pretty much everything in their lineup the last few years. Big Twins now get Brembos (dual 4-pots on the touring models) and even Sportsters have a larger 2-pot Nissin calipers and rotors than they did when the rubbermounts were introduced in 04.

Still, you can't get by the physics, if you push the Harleys enough they obviously can't perform on the level of a modern sportbike, but that's ok with 99% of the owners who aren't looking for that anyway.

I know toooo many Harley guys who used to ride and stopped cuz they had no choice one day on the highway and had to lay a Harley down cuz some trucker jackknifed or some crap, its always the same root tho, the bike was too heavy, if they had been on anything 400lbs or under (easily reasonable for a bike) they would have been able to maneuver out of the situation without any problems.

Aw come on man. If all those guys "had to lay her down" then you and I both know they were crappy, uneducated riders in the first place, since that is almost NEVER the correct option.

Quick story, when I worked for Chilton in the 90s most of the editorial department rode BMWs, so I often wound up on group rides with a bunch of K-bikes and oilheads. And most of the time I showed up on a Sportster or Road King. I'd usually chose to ride tail so that I knew I wouldn't hold up any faster riders, but I almost ALWAYS wound up having to brake and slow down to keep from running over the slower BMW guys.

I remember one particular ride where I was tossing the Road King around and having a blast, but literally had to keep braking to keep from hitting a pair of oilheads. After the ride the owners approached me wanting to know what I'd done to "hot rod" that Harley so I could ride it like that. It was bone-frickin' stock, I couldn't stop laughing.

[rufus1138]

very true kev, its not so much Harley I have a beef with (other than their exorbitant price point) but the stigma surrounding the whole operation and the ppl that statistically ride them, everything has its exception, you are one of those exceptions in the Harley world, I once went on a ride (had my track to street converted r6) and was riding with wild abandon at the front of the pack in some gnarly twisties with a guy on a concourse 1400, id pass him in the corners and he would stretch out on the straights, rinse and repeat.....after about 15 minutes our tail rider.....on a friggen Honda Goldwing, comes howling by both of us  we were like rock on dude, is it stock.....he said theres not much u can do to em anyway so yeah its stock....

[Kev M]

Don't get me wrong, lots of serious sportbike riders will leave me for dead no matter what I'm on.

But yeah, more often than not I find it's the rider more than the bike.

And the longer I survive, the more I think it's not a bad thing to slow down a bit... at least for me.

 

[Nekkid Tim]

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[Nekkid Tim]

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[rufus1138]

whether the weight matters or not on the motor vehicle tests the statistics on the street remain the same, most ppl that I run into that "used to ride" are Harley ppl and most times the story is the same, they never were good riders in the first place, lol most of the time it comes after a comment along the lines of "if I were gonna buy one of them mo-tor-cicles it would be a big loud American Harley, not that foreign weird thingy that makes funny sounds and doesn't shake enough" then you get the "well I used to ride, had me one of them superglide-softail-roadking-sreamin eagle-(acronyms for four hours) Harley then I was (insert minor obstacle like tim mentioned) and I had NO CHOICE but to lay her down and hope for the best, ruined my credit when my half million dollar loan on the bike went into default and now I cant stand ppl on mo-tor-cicles anymore" I hear it about twice a month id say. and yes tim ive got the same aversion to gissskkxxxerereerrrrrrrs