Need advice re: dealing with veterinary racket

[tommys67]

I came THISCLOSE to having my dog put to sleep last night.

The dog was vomiting, collapsiing, struggling for breath... just a mess.

Thankfully, the 11pm emergency visit showed her in generally good health, but with a condition of laryngeal paralysis.  Essentially, the muscles in her throat are not functioning right, and the analogy would be for us to run a 500 yard sprint - but only being able to breathe through a straw .

Here's why I need help.

My dog is 13.  The vet clinic she has gone to her whole life has gone through / turned over so many vets that she has never seen the same one more than 3 times - and that's even in the puppy years where she's getting tons of shots and neutering, etc.  I don't trust this clinic 100% because of this.

The surgical clinic where she gets referred, either I schedule an emergency visit so she can get looked at NOW (and likely will be admitted instantly) or I wait until July 29th (about 2 weeks) to have a consultation.  Either way - no one can tell me a) what this will cost me b) what this procedure is all about until I get the dog to the clinic.  I've been searching the internet for this, and I cannot find ANYTHING!! 

Oh, by the way, the surgical clinic appears to have let its website address expire.  NOT a good sign in my book...

Frankly, it pisses me off when no one is willing to give a ballpark, or range of the costs surgical options for my dog.  C'mon people is it $1-2,000?  Is it $8-10,000?  Gimme SOMETHING!!  Before anyone jumps all over me about this, I want to have my dog live a peaceful life - I am inclined to have this done.  I just want to make good thoughtful decisions, not impulsive ones when it comes to health care.

I also detest the feeling that I'm over the barrel, so to speak, that either I live in bliss and do nothing, or by the time I find out all my options, it'll be too late to make a rational, patient decision.

Am I alone in feeling cornered like this?

[Howie]

Sorry to hear about your pooche's problems

AFAIK, these folks are the best.  You want a second opinion anyway.

http://www.amcny.org/

[tommys67]

Sorry to hear about your pooche's problems

AFAIK, these folks are the best.  You want a second opinion anyway.

http://www.amcny.org/

Howie, you the man.

I owe you dinner when I get up to your neck of the woods to pick up that stereo

[Stella]

Good luck and keep us posted!!!

[CDawg]

I've used these folks in the past.  The women who run the clinc really know their stuff.  They gave my a detailed estimate with service by service check list.  I crossed checked the final service delivered versus estimate and there were no surprises.  PM me if you want to more detail.

http://www.stmarksvet.com/

[NvrSummer]

I had a similar situation last week, but a little more urgent....  Quick version...

I came home from work about 6 to find my dog near dead in the bushes in the backyard.  His stomach was hugely swollen and he could barely move, so I put him in the truck as fast as possible and hauled ass to the vet.  Turned out it was a very badly twisted stomach.  The doc said they either needed to put him down right away, or begin what would be roughly $6k worth of surgery.  Talk about being cornered, it's damn near extortion. 

Being that my pup is only 6 years old, and I trusted this vet, I did the surgery.  I mean what are you going to do?  Shop around prices while your dog suffers and likely dies?  Turned out they saved me some money and it came out around $3500, and the pup is healing great.

In your situation, where minutes don't mean life and death, I would certainly get a second opinion. 

Good luck man, I commend you for doing what you can do to keep your buddy around for a few more years.

[somegirl]

Best of luck with your pup, please keep us posted.

It really makes a difference to find vets that you trust and stick with them.

[Bun-bun]

     Vets are grossly underpaid . It takes as much schooling to produce a vet as it does to produce an MD, there are fewer schools, and the overall bill for the education is several hundred thousand $$
     In 2007, one of our cats collapsed. Our vet checked her blood, and her Hematocrit was down around 5 (Normal is 28-30). She had a transfusion, and antibiotics, and steroids, and recovered. On May 29,2008, it happened again. This time on a weekend. The only place to take her was the emergency vet hospital, which is always more expensive than my regular vet, and they came back with an outrageous estimate for care. We went line by line, crossing off, until we got to something that I and hopefully the cat, could both live with. At this point, she's back up to a crit of 21, and hopefully, will recover, but you have to have a sense of proportion about these things.
      I'll go thousands of $$ into debt for my wife or my son in a heartbeat, no problem, but there comes a point where you have got to say goodbye to your animal, and move on.
     For the price of keeping one animal alive, you could donate the same amount to your local shelter and keep several dozen animals alive until they could find homes.
     We've had the same vet for over 20 years.  We know all four of the vets, and most of the vet techs, and they know us. I regularly keep a credit with them, so that I don't have to worry about payment if I have an emergency. This past month, we've been taking the cat in every few days to a week to have her blood checked, so I just let the bill mount up, then overpaid them by $100 so I don't have to keep writing checks.
Good luck to all of you with your animals.

[Pakhan]

I can only suggest pet medical insurance, it might help to soften the financial blow.

good luck, sorry man 

[herm]

     Vets are grossly underpaid . It takes as much schooling to produce a vet as it does to produce an MD, there are fewer schools, and the overall bill for the education is several hundred thousand $$
     In 2007, one of our cats collapsed. Our vet checked her blood, and her Hematocrit was down around 5 (Normal is 28-30). She had a transfusion, and antibiotics, and steroids, and recovered. On May 29,2008, it happened again. This time on a weekend. The only place to take her was the emergency vet hospital, which is always more expensive than my regular vet, and they came back with an outrageous estimate for care. We went line by line, crossing off, until we got to something that I and hopefully the cat, could both live with. At this point, she's back up to a crit of 21, and hopefully, will recover, but you have to have a sense of proportion about these things.
      I'll go thousands of $$ into debt for my wife or my son in a heartbeat, no problem, but there comes a point where you have got to say goodbye to your animal, and move on.
     For the price of keeping one animal alive, you could donate the same amount to your local shelter and keep several dozen animals alive until they could find homes.
     We've had the same vet for over 20 years.  We know all four of the vets, and most of the vet techs, and they know us. I regularly keep a credit with them, so that I don't have to worry about payment if I have an emergency. This past month, we've been taking the cat in every few days to a week to have her blood checked, so I just let the bill mount up, then overpaid them by $100 so I don't have to keep writing checks.
Good luck to all of you with your animals.

+1...
and before i get flamed, let me go on record.
i spent almost 5k repairing torn ligaments in my first dogs hind legs, and...
i chose not to spend 5k to have her cancer operated on

the difference? she was less than 3 years old when the torn ligaments happened, with a prognosis of a full recovery and normal life. she was 8 years old when she got cancer, and even with the surgery, her life expectancy (and quality of life) were very low.

[Bun-bun]

+1...
and before i get flamed, let me go on record.
i spent almost 5k repairing torn ligaments in my first dogs hind legs, and...
i chose not to spend 5k to have her cancer operated on

the difference? she was less than 3 years old when the torn ligaments happened, with a prognosis of a full recovery and normal life. she was 8 years old when she got cancer, and even with the surgery, her life expectancy (and quality of life) were very low.

Yeah,
     It hurts, but sometimes it's better for the animal to kill it humanely, than to put it thru a painful surgery, painful recovery, and have it continue a pain-filled existence.
     I had to let a cat go that had been with me for 18 years, since she was 8 weeks old. She used to sleep on my pillow at night. That was a few years ago. I still miss her, but it was the right thing to do.

[tommys67]

Last night I had the chance to talk to a family friend who is one in a long line of veterinarians.  Her father-in-law actually owns a number of animal hospitals.

Neither she or I know why 3 of the surgical clinics I called would even be willing to discuss the actual costs of the surgery.  The pre- and post-op care is a whole other beast, but the procedure my dog would need is pretty standard.

The other thing - I've never talked to this woman before, but she is EXACTLY what someone would want in a vet.  She listened, she explained, she was candid, she gave all the pros and cons, and best of all - she helped me fill in the gaps of my research and gave me tremendous piece of mind.

After talking to her I am inclined to NOT go forward with the surgery and medically isolate the triggers for what cause my dog to get all hyper - and thus set off an episode.  Basically what THAT means is using something like Xanax for the dog in the 30 minutes or so before we know there will be a severe level of excitement (me coming to the house, fireworks, my parents coming to the house) and just keeping her calm.

One of the downsides of the tie-back surgery for laryngeal paralysis is the flap of skin that separates what goes down what tube is permanently open.  Therefore, no swimming, elevated food and water, and making sure she doesn't inhale her food too fast.  Essentially, stuff will get into the lungs (water, food, etc) and get infected and BINGO!!!... we have pneumonia...   This dog INHALES EVERYTHING.  I'm not thinking the risk of pneumonia is worth the $3-$5,000 in total costs - or even preferable - to simply managing her lifestyle better.

Amazingly, my ex- and I are totally in sync with all this.

I will still be going to the surgical consultation later this month, but NOW that I have a really good handle on this issue, I am MUCH calmer and thinking objectively.

I know cars, motorcycles, financial services and lots of other broad general areas quite well.  I know if you have  a question, you can find an answer.  I have NEVER run into the kinds of roadblocks I've found in the veterinary world.  My conclusion - get a REALLY, REALLY good vet!!

Thanks, Julie!!

[somegirl]

I will still be going to the surgical consultation later this month, but NOW that I have a really good handle on this issue, I am MUCH calmer and thinking objectively.

Glad to hear you got some of the answers you were looking for.

One of the downsides of the tie-back surgery for laryngeal paralysis is the flap of skin that separates what goes down what tube is permanently open.  Therefore, no swimming, elevated food and water, and making sure she doesn't inhale her food too fast.  Essentially, stuff will get into the lungs (water, food, etc) and get infected and BINGO!!!... we have pneumonia...   This dog INHALES EVERYTHING.  I'm not thinking the risk of pneumonia is worth the $3-$5,000 in total costs - or even preferable - to simply managing her lifestyle better.

I also have a dog that inhales food.  I've managed to slow her down by putting some of her food inside a Kong toy and putting that in her bowl.  Other options include something like a Buster Cube, there's various different toys with similar themes.

http://www.bustercube.com/


http://www.kongcompany.com/

[Bun-bun]

Tommy,
I'm so glad you were able to find a decent vet. I'm also glad that your pup will be o.k.
Jeff

[mstevens]

Vets are grossly underpaid. It takes as much schooling to produce a vet as it does to produce an MD, there are fewer schools, and the overall bill for the education is several hundred thousand $$

It's considerably more difficult to get into veterinary school, too. My medical school class had 5 people (that I know of - there may have been more who didn't want to admit it) who had tried and failed to gain admission to vet school (most had tried several time) but had no difficulty whatsoever getting into medical school.

Surgical supplies cost the same no matter what is undergoing surgery. It could be your goldfish and many of the costs would be the same as if it were your grandma.