Fuel Pump Issues... Another dead horse to beat.

[corey]

So my bike (2006 S2R800) fired right up yesterday... but after warming up (and thankfully BEFORE I went on my way), she sputtered out. After trying to restart several times, I noticed that the fuel pump was not priming... I figured, great - fuel pump is dead.

After some research, I learned about this tricky little plug that some artist at Ducati came up with that seems to be a common failure point on these bikes. Out of curiosity, I tried starting her up again today â€" fired right up. This leads me to believe that I am indeed dealing with a loose connection at this plug.

Now I know there is a Ducati part that I can order to replace this plug â€" but I want to be sure I'm diagnosing the problem correctly, and not just "throwing parts at it."

Is there a process I can go through to rule out other issues in the ignition/fueling system? Is there some diagnostic work I can do to determine that this wire is indeed the problem?
Is it possible that it was just a "kink" in the system that will never happen again (he said hopefully)?

Good to be back.
Cor

[brad black]

need a little more info to know what plug you are talking about?

[ducpainter]

need a little more info to know what plug you are talking about?

I 'think' this is what he's talking about...

We no longer make this kit due to intermittent failure. Use Ducati part number 51020032A that replaces just the wires and plug for about $139! Call your local Ducati dealer and order. Not much online when you search via Google

[corey]

Bingo ^

[Jonathan]

Check out my thread below. I had the same issue.

[corey]

Jonathan,
Not seeing your thread pal â€" forget to link?

[Howie]

The problem is that the problem is intermittent, therefore you need to diagnose while the symptoms exist.  Power to the tank at the connector, pump/sender problem.  No power aty that connector?  FI relay or wiring problem.  Just a starting point.

[Jonathan]

Jonathan,
Not seeing your thread pal â€" forget to link?

My S2R died at a light. It wouldn't start for a day. Then it did. Then it would start but would die with throttle. The problem was intermittent. I had seen a few threads about the wires soldered into the pump flange coming unsoldered.  I needed to replace the fuel filter anyway to I decided to dive into the tank. When I removed the soft epoxy that was used to pot the wires leading to the pump and fuel level sensor they all just fell out. It was an easy fix to solder them back. While I was in there I replaced the fuel lines, filters and orings.  The mechanics here will rightly have a process to diagnose a problem. Just changing stuff is probably usually counter productive. I got lucky.


http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=70534.0

[corey]

The problem is that the problem is intermittent, therefore you need to diagnose while the symptoms exist.  Power to the tank at the connector, pump/sender problem.  No power aty that connector?  FI relay or wiring problem.  Just a starting point.

Howie,
Thanks for the starting point â€" I can hear the relay clicking (100% positive) when I turn the key to "ON." Can we safely rule out the relay? Or could it be shot and still click?

Would a clogged/gummed up fuel filter cause the pump to cut out?

I guess another obvious question that I should have thought of... could shitty/bad fuel be causing this? I'm working with a tank that has been sitting for 6 months... I used Stabilizer in it, but I've had StaBil fail me before...

[Howie]

The pump should still operate, but not be able to supply sufficient fuel.  How does the bike perform when it is running?

The relay could be shot and still click, good coil, bad contacts or the coil could be opening at a given temperature.  Also, are both relays clicking or just one?  The relay can be bypassed by running a jumper wire between terminal 30 and 87.  You can also test the relay by placing an ohmmeter between 30 and 87 on the relay, power to 85, ground 86.  Ohmmeter should read close to 0 ohms.  Though I hate replacing parts without finding the problem, but the relay is cheap enough.  Big problem is you are dealing with an intermittent situation, when all is good all will test good. 

[corey]

Update â€" some temperature experimentation....
First time this issue happened, the bike started fine, but died once it got warmed up.
Last time I tried to start the bike, it was chilly out â€" maybe 40-50 degrees. Fired up fine.
Today it is HOT â€" 89 degrees outside. Tried to fire up the bike, no love.

Could this be a temp-related issue?

EDIT:
Forgot to mention â€" it sounds like only the FRONT relay is clicking.
Does anyone happen to have the part number for these relays? Are they both the same? I can only find one (541.4.003.1A) in my parts catalog.

-C

[corey]

So I did some poking around with the multimeter...
12.4 Volts at the plug on the brown/white wire and adjacent ground immediately after key turn.
10.2 Volts on the blue/white wire and adjacent ground constant after key turn.
Seems like there is power getting to the plug.

I also pulled the relays and checked resistance... I'm not really that boned up on this part of my multimeter's functions, so here's a pic:


This seems "pretty close to zero," and I imagine that consider the plug is getting power on key turn that the relays are fine...

So I guess this at the very least narrows down the problem to something inside the tank.
Yay... 

Any info on what I should look at/do while I'm in there? And I keep hearing about some gasket that I need to replace when I pull the unit â€" I'm assuming this is "O-Ring," part number 886.4.049.1A shown here as #6:


So I'm curious â€" could it really be anything aside from that stupid wire buried in epoxy?
Is it possible my ECU is a culprit?

[iltl32]

FWIW I did not need to replace the O ring on my tank.

If you want to fix this yourself for like $10 you can.  You just need to dig out the epoxy (I used a really small drill bit to break it up and some small picks to pull it out), re-do the solder, and replace the epoxy (I used JB Water Weld.  They claim it's safe to use in fuel.)

[corey]

FWIW I did not need to replace the O ring on my tank.

If you want to fix this yourself for like $10 you can.  You just need to dig out the epoxy (I used a really small drill bit to break it up and some small picks to pull it out), re-do the solder, and replace the epoxy (I used JB Water Weld.  They claim it's safe to use in fuel.)

Good to hear about the o-ring, thanks. I think I might do this regardless of whether the plug is the issue or not. My soldering skills are pretty good, and it seems like if I replace this with $130 factory part from ducati, it's just going to happen again eventually... why bother.

Regarding JB-weld, it appears that WaterWeld only comes in the putty... this doesn't seem like it'd be very easy to fill that little plug with. Did you perhaps mean MarineWeld?

WaterWeld: http://www.jbweld.com/collections/50172/products/waterweld-epoxy-putty
MarineWeld: http://www.jbweld.com/collections/8277/products/marineweld

Lastly, did you use any special kind of solder? Or just standard stuff..

[iltl32]

I used the putty.  Just worked it in there until it was solid.

Another thing to note is the lock washers holding the plastic shroud on the fuel pump assembly.  They're easy to break but try to save them if you can.  I couldn't find replacements that weren't zinc, which can't go into fuel.

No special solder for me.  Just electrical. 

One more note: while you do want to heat the socket up enough to bond with the solder, don't overdo it or the solder on the other side might melt.