'13 M796... confused about how to approach ECU mods with upgrades

[Charlie98]

I've got about 800 miles on my new-to-me M796 ABS (total miles on bike: 5000.)  Awesome bike, but it has a few... uh, issues.  Low RPM backfire through the carbs, tendency to die at pull-away sometimes (even after it's up to temp,) hard starting (only occasionally,) and the need to keep it above ~4000RPM to keep the above from happening.

As far as I know, there are no engine or ECU mods on this thing right now.  In researching where I want to go to upgrade, I've become confused at all the options and how each one affects the bike and performance... my brains are leaking out my ears at this point.  My upgrade budget is limited, SWMBO is not going to allow me to spend money willy-nilly on this thing, so I have to make it count...  It's only a daily driver and weekend trip machine, no track time.

Later this year I'm going to get a set of cans for it... probably Arrow, Termi, LV, or similar, with DB killers (or modded DB's) and a better filter (not sure where I need to go with the intake yet.)  Once I do that, I want to eliminate the O2 sensors and exhaust flapper, and tune or replace the ECU.... and that's where the confusion starts.

1)  Given my use and potential mods listed above, what is the best approach for a ECU mod or replacement?  Can someone mod the factory ECU to improve the fuel map and eliminate the O2/flap, or do I need to go to something like a Rexxer or Bazzaz?  Are there other options that are more cost effective?  I can fetch another factory ECU used if I need to, although the Rexxer claims it stores the original map so I can swap it back in if need be.

*  The bike originally came from AMS in Dallas... they are a Rexxer center, but no dyno or dyno tuning (I believe) for whatever that's worth.

2)  What does the exhaust flapper do?  ...and when does it actuate?  If I'm reading it correctly, it's one of the reasons for the low RPM problems I'm seeing.  Will I be able to completely remove the damned thing, or is just deactivating it enough?

3)  I would love to eliminate the +8% MPH reading... that stuff drives me crazy, but it's not a deal-breaker.

Any and all suggestions are welcome... in reading through all the posts here and elsewhere, I was initially surprised at the sheer amount of mods everyone is doing to these things... but now I understand why, and quite surprised at the amount of aftermarket parts and support for them!

[koko64]

I would talk with AMS and sponsor Motowheels about your planned mods and see what they can do for you with a Rexxer reflash to achieve your goals. MW had specials on Rexxer last I looked. Rexxer is a good start.

[DarkMonster620]

Ok, visit: vizi-tec, there you purchase the exhaust valve emulator and install, pull away and "weird' idle and start issues should dissapear; then as far as exhaust go, if you go the Termi way(not sure of availability), it comes with DP ECU, any other brand, I would recommend a reflash and even better if you could do it on a dyno, with the Rexxer you can ELIMINATE the O2 sensor and other things.

If you are close to AMS Dallas, go to them and ralk to them about your issues and plans

[Charlie98]

Ok, visit: vizi-tec, there you purchase the exhaust valve emulator and install, pull away and "weird' idle and start issues should dissapear; then as far as exhaust go, if you go the Termi way(not sure of availability), it comes with DP ECU, any other brand, I would recommend a reflash and even better if you could do it on a dyno, with the Rexxer you can ELIMINATE the O2 sensor and other things.

If you are close to AMS Dallas, go to them and ralk to them about your issues and plans

I was just about to get a Duc.ee just to see if that would fix the stalling/low RPM issues... but I didn't want to spend the money on it, and it become a redundant part once I went into the ECU.  I know, I'm being cheap.  The DP/Termi kit is absurdly expensive and out of the question... unless I'm just not seeing an actual retail price.  As I understand it, the DP ECU isn't able to eliminate the O2, etc features vs the Rexxer, for example, that is?  I'd rather not have a bunch of piggyback devices.

I'm going to go ahead and get the Duc.ee...  if it works like I think it will, it'll be worth the $50.

[DarkMonster620]

Charlie, I am talking with FHE on about 7 bikes, 6 Ducatis and a Kawi Z1000 . . .

DP ECU that comes with Termi kit, does NOT eliminate O2 sensors or Exhaust valve, it changes some parameters . . . With Rexxer, you can delete O2 sensors and exhaust valve altogether; if you do, eliminate the O2 sensors, get the plugs at the dealer, and install them and remove the O2 sensor . . .

If you go Rexxer, then, you can replace your air filter, the DP Termi kit comes with a performance air filter and the DP ECU; cost for said kit locally is about $1800 and $90 labour . . .

[ungeheuer]

I was just about to get a Duc.ee just to see if that would fix the stalling/low RPM issues...

It won't.  It won't coz it can't.  

Whatever is the cause of your stalling/low rpm issues....it's not the exhaust flapper (unless it's malfunctioned in a closed or partially closed position of course).  

So much misinformation gets around about the function of this bloody exhaust flapper-gate....  .  

Normal operation of your M796 exhaust flapper is this:  
Default home/rest/normal operating position is fully open.  When you turn on ignition, flapper servo motor operates to flap closed and then flap open again the exhaust butterfly.  From then on and at at all other times during normal operation.... the exhaust flapper remains fully open.  Once this intitial close/open cycle is complete, it does nothing at all.  Zilch.

I can't be arsed going into the reasons for this (once again)  .   Search 'exhaust flapper'.... or 'Duc.EE'..... or 'Siemens ECU mods'....  

What fitting a Duc.EE will do is this:  
Allow you to disconnect the servo motor and throw it away..... allow you to fit an after market exhaust (one which perhaps has no flapper gate to flap).  It's simply an emulator which tells pretty lies to the ECU.  Where you to disable your exhaust servo motor without your little Duc.EE-liar in place, the ECU would express it's displeasure in the form of an 'EXVL' error on your dash.

....but I didn't want to spend the money on it, and it become a redundant part once I went into the ECU.  

If you're intending to have your ECU reflashed (Rexxer is the way to go IMO), exhaust flapper elimination can be included as part of the reflash.  I have a redundant Duc.EE sitting on my garage shelf as testament  .

Seriously, do some more searching around here.  There's heaps of information here on exactly these questions you're currently considering  .

[ungeheuer]

Some of your questions may be answered below (some wander a little ways off your topic, but still have useful info).  Enjoy  

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=63190.0

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=62451.0

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=41934.0

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=43335.0

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=51125.0

[Charlie98]

So much misinformation gets around about the function of this bloody exhaust flapper-gate....  .  

I can't be arsed going into the reasons for this (once again)  .   Search 'exhaust flapper'.... or 'Duc.EE'..... or 'Siemens ECU mods'....  

It's funny... sad funny... about all this emissions crap.  It adds weight, complexity, and expense, all to satisfy some arbitrary standard.  The air pump on my '93 XR650 did nothing but pump air into the exhaust circuit, watering down the exhaust emissions.  It didn't eliminate or reduce the total emissions, just diluted them so they could pass CA standards.  Stupid.

Sounds like the Duc flapper is in the same category, if not just for sound emissions.

Thank you for the links... some of those I had read already, some not.  That will give me something to read while I'm setting on the can, getting rid of some more pre-ride weight.

I guess my biggest question was, really, the whole ECU thing... which option would work best in my specific instance.  It sounds like the Rexxer is the way to go.  I'll have to see if I can find a decent exhaust welder around here to mod the mid-pipe on mine.

[koko64]

Seems to be from all the reports here over the years. Ung went through it all on his bike and Darkmonster is a Ducati Tech, so I would be guided by those guys.
You tell the Rexxer dealer what you want to include in the reflash, e.g. flapper gone, O2 sensors gone, DP map, Immobilizer gone, open pipes, open airbox, etc, etc.
Motowheels has a form you complete where you put down your preferences. They have a quick turnaround by mail. I mention them because they had a deal going (and they're sponsors).

[ungeheuer]

It's funny... sad funny... about all this emissions crap.  It adds weight, complexity, and expense, all to satisfy some arbitrary standard.  The air pump on my '93 XR650 did nothing but pump air into the exhaust circuit, watering down the exhaust emissions.  It didn't eliminate or reduce the total emissions, just diluted them so they could pass CA standards.  Stupid.

You are so right.  (You're also touching on matters political.... and as you would know when you read the rules    ...we're not allowed to go there.  So I make no further comment  ).

Sounds like the Duc flapper is in the same category, if not just for sound emissions.

Noise emissions testing is it's only purpose.

Thank you for the links... some of those I had read already, some not.  That will give me something to read while I'm setting on the can, getting rid of some more pre-ride weight.

....I'll have to see if I can find a decent exhaust welder around here to mod the mid-pipe on mine.

If you intend to retain stock headers and run slip-on cans.... the easiest and neatest way to deflapper your stock M796 midpipe is to replace it with a stock M696 midpipe (M696 doesn't have servo/flapper).  Direct swap, bolts straight on.  Easy. 

[Charlie98]

Motowheels has a form you complete where you put down your preferences. They have a quick turnaround by mail.

...but the Rexxer just reflashes your stock ECU, correct?  In that case, I'll have to get a 2nd ECU for a spare.

If you intend to retain stock headers and run slip-on cans.... the easiest and neatest way to deflapper your stock M796 midpipe is to replace it with a stock M696 midpipe (M696 doesn't have servo/flapper).  Direct swap, bolts straight on.  Easy. 

I was poking around the bike yesterday after reading your previous post... I see where the mid-pipe clamps in.  Good idea!  I also see where trying to cut and weld into the existing pipe might be a tricky endeavor.  I don't see a need to replace the stock headers, it's slip-on's for me.

[Howie]

Rexxer will save your original map if you buy from them.  http://www.rexxer.com/ecu-tuning-buy--

[ungeheuer]

...but the Rexxer just reflashes your stock ECU, correct?  In that case, I'll have to get a 2nd ECU for a spare.

there are options....  You could buy a rexxer 'user' device, a tool which will allow you to reflash your ecu in situ.  It's the option I chose (although more costly). You could remove your stock ecu and mail it to a rexxer reflash centre.  Or... you could keep you unmolested stock ecu and buy a second ecu to send off for reflashing.  If you elect to buy a second one (they show up on eBay used).... get back to us here first.... coz M796 ecus are not all compatible.... I'll go into it in more detail if needed.

What Howie says is true, although when I was last playing with rexxer the 'backup' feature which they advertise as a way to save your stock mapping prior to reflash was not compatible with Siemens ecus.  I got rexxer to email me a copy of my stock mapping so that it can be reverted should the need arise.

[Charlie98]

Or... you could keep you unmolested stock ecu and buy a second ecu to send off for reflashing.  If you elect to buy a second one (they show up on eBay used).... get back to us here first.... coz M796 ecus are not all compatible.... I'll go into it in more detail if needed.

That's the idea.