Question for Architects, Engineers and Contractors

[Sinister]

A client wants to pay me to design, we'll design all day and then some!  They want to only pay for a floor plan and a window schedule and that's what they'll get and then some. 

We do recognize that this is the chief problem.  What is frustrating is, we (you as architect & us as contractor) end up completing the design via RFI, ASI & change orders.  In the end, the Owner pays a premium when they could have spent a little extra to have the design completely detailed AND get accurate bids.

We see a lot of architects turning back to us for advice/direction/etc when it's their responsibility to put out the details.  There is a lot of liability surrounding this, and it's a tricky dance of helping out the "team" and protecting your company.

[The Architect]

We do recognize that this is the chief problem.  What is frustrating is, we (you as architect & us as contractor) end up completing the design via RFI, ASI & change orders.  In the end, the Owner pays a premium when they could have spent a little extra to have the design completely detailed AND get accurate bids.

And this is why we no longer deal with clients who are looking to cut corners where they shouldn't.  (I'll be singing a new tune when work drys up.)  Not to mention our risk.  The money the owner saves in the design is nothing compared to what they spend in extras and change orders.

We see a lot of architects turning back to us for advice/direction/etc when it's their responsibility to put out the details.  There is a lot of liability surrounding this, and it's a tricky dance of helping out the "team" and protecting your company.

We're a team player and like to coordinate with the owner and the builder but in the end it's our responsibility.  We create those details.

[Sinister]

We're a team player and like to coordinate with the owner and the builder but in the end it's our responsibility.  We create those details.

That's the best way to be: a team.  I make "suggestions" a lot, and say, "I saw this once, you might check it out" and scribble on a cocktail napkin.  The architects/engineers who gain my esteem the most are those who are willing to listen and walk the site and see your headaches/problems hands-on. 

[Vindingo]

Thanks for the insight everyone! RE: calling the owner- it's his brother in law!   I think I will politely recommend he calls the engineer on the project to verify the use of his deck screws.  I questioned the project arch. and he has way too much trust in his GC.  In the same sentance he informed me that this was his and the gc's first remodel project, but they have watched plenty of them before.       everyone starts somewhere right    

I love the architect bashing.  Contractors, designers, CAD monkeys... it's all funny.   I think someone mentioned bacon and choking...    

Working together from the beginning to hopefully produce a better finished product.  

Is your company like ARUP?   Engineers with creativity and imagination are a good thing,  too many pocket protectors, calculators and bean counters are bad.

[Vindingo]

Do you really want to work with a company that puts out work like this?

And this is why we no longer deal with clients who are looking to cut corners where they shouldn't.  (I'll be singing a new tune when work drys up.) 

This is my dilema...  work is drying up for me.  I left a secure but seriously lame job in order to go after some cool projects.  This new firm has some cool projects, its just the execution is a little off. 

[Sinister]

Engineers with creativity and imagination are a good thing,  

Creativity and imagination were exorcized from me, like demons, in engineering school.

[Vindingo]

Creativity and imagination were exorcized from me, like demons, in engineering school.

most architects could change that to "Creativity and imagination were exorcized from me, like demons, in professional practice."

This reminds me of a professor who used to tell us that he was jealous of his artist friend because "he can do whatever he wants"

[erkishhorde]

Is your company like ARUP?   Engineers with creativity and imagination are a good thing,  too many pocket protectors, calculators and bean counters are bad.

I guess you could say that. My soon-to-be boss worked at ARUP and my favorite teach from poly worked at ARUP for more than 10 years so I've got a lot of their ideologies around me. I hope to work for ARUP San Francisco when I eventually move north but that's a ways away.

However, as I work my way through the industry, it is amazing how many people I run across just trying to fake their knowlege base.  Like your boss, don't assume people know what they are doing just by virtue of their position.

Doctors scare me too...

My GF complained about this recently. I often state things as though they are facts when in reality it's just my thoughts and opinions. Many of us are or will be in positions where we are expected to know the answer to every question and saying, "I don't know," doesn't go over well. People want answers right away but I should hope that even if you/I give a (wrong) answer because the client needs an answer you/I still go and look for the correct answer and fix our mistakes before it's too late. Sadly not everyone will.

[B.Rock]

My GF complained about this recently. I often state things as though they are facts when in reality it's just my thoughts and opinions. Many of us are or will be in positions where we are expected to know the answer to every question and saying, "I don't know," doesn't go over well. People want answers right away but I should hope that even if you/I give a (wrong) answer because the client needs an answer you/I still go and look for the correct answer and fix our mistakes before it's too late. Sadly not everyone will.

Hmm. As a CE I can tell you that for us doesn't work well at all. Someone - a PM or politico - will take it as the gospel truth. It happens ALL THE TIME. "I'll look into that" or "I'll check it to be sure" works a lot better.

[SacDuc]

I just want to say that my ribbing of architects is good natured and tongue in cheek. I actually do respect the profession and happen to have the good fortune of working a very good architect at the moment.

[The Architect]

I just want to say that my ribbing of architects is good natured and tongue in cheek. I actually do respect the profession and happen to have the good fortune of working a very good architect at the moment.

I understand.  I get it all the time.  And it is fun.  When the builders aren't having fun with me is when I'm concerned.

go choke on some bacon..............      

No bodies ever choked on bacon.  I don't even think it's possible?   

[Sinister]

Many of us are or will be in positions where we are expected to know the answer to every question and saying, "I don't know," doesn't go over well.

Of course, we all are.  However, I have never once had a customer react badly when I say, "I do not know, but I will find out."  I make sure I follow up, when I get the answer.  Overall, people want honesty, I find.  If they know you are being straight with them, they usually cut you some slack.  I would rather have an architect tell me he doesn't know, instead of claiming his opinion/idea/thing he heard at the watercooler is fact/code/structurally sound.  In the end, we all want to build good, sound buildings...Just don't get your ego wrapped up in it, and things will go fine. 

The ones I can't stand are the ones who don't know when to sweat it and when to let things go, and when they get that turned around. 

[Drunken Monkey]

I just want to say that my ribbing of architects is good natured and tongue in cheek. I actually do respect the profession and happen to have the good fortune of working a very good architect at the moment.

So you're saying you boss reads the DML and/or has a net nanny installed at work. 

[Vindingo]

UPDATE:

I got back from LA and was seriously debating wether or not I should take this job.  I called the boss, talked for while and he told me he would call me in a week or so.  That was a week and a half ago, no call. 

Today I get a call from another guy at the office and I find out that the job has been shut down by the building inspector.  He doesnt know exactly why, so I gave the boss a call.  He didnt pick up, so I left a message.  I guess this is why he hasn't called me back, but I want to know why the project got stopped!

[SacDuc]

UPDATE:

[snip] . . . but I want to know why the project got stopped!

I bet it has something to do with deck screws.   

sac