Hayden/Ducati... and silly season

[darylbowden]

Hayden will be great on a Duc and should rediscover his form and podiums as a result.

I think I'm the only one on the planet who doesn't subscribe to this theory.  I don't think the reason Stoner can ride the Duc like he does is his dirttrack background, I think it's the fact that he is able to completely trust the electronics and he doesn't need to rely on "feel."  I think Hayden will have the same issues that Marco has had.  Hayden doesn't even like his electronics turned up on the RC212V, he'll never be able to ride with them full-on as Casey does on the GP8.  I don't think he'll stink up the joint like Marco has, but I don't see him finishing any higher than 9th in the championship aboard the Duc. 

[COWBOY]

I believe the other riders are having such a difficult time "trusting" the electronics because they can't get used to the sliding, hopping and bucking the bike does.  Given the comfort level dirt bikers have sliding it around that isn't an issue for Casey and I don't believe it will be for Nicky.

Nicky prefers to slide and back it in so to speak so I'm excited at the possibility to see him get the most out of it.

[Jester]

I believe the other riders are having such a difficult time "trusting" the electronics because they can't get used to the sliding, hopping and bucking the bike does.

I agree with that.  From what I can tell, one of the reasons that the bike bucks, is due to Stoner whacking open the throttle still leaned over.  The Duc's traction control will cause the engine to "stutter" when its losing grip and I think that this engine stutter is why the bike bucks around like that.  Its a fast on/off/on/off of the gas when the chassis is already being stressed with various loads and it unsettles the bike.

I don't think its much of a far cry to the 1098R, its just a tamer bike... but Bayliss rides the same way.  Dial up the traction control and let it rip.  When they go to the throttle/brake view during the race, you can see the difference.  Stoner is full on/full off, while the other guys use more of a progressive opening of the throttle for the most part.

What intrigues me is that Stoner is the same way with his braking a lot of the time.  He's full on/off brake a lot of the time too and not very progressive with it.

[darylbowden]

I believe the other riders are having such a difficult time "trusting" the electronics because they can't get used to the sliding, hopping and bucking the bike does.  Given the comfort level dirt bikers have sliding it around that isn't an issue for Casey and I don't believe it will be for Nicky.

Nicky prefers to slide and back it in so to speak so I'm excited at the possibility to see him get the most out of it.

Yeah, but sliding and bucking are two very different things.  I don't know if you've watched much flattrack but the bikes sure as heck aren't bucking like that.

Hopefully we'll have a chance to see what will happen next year, but I really don't think the Duc is the answer for Nicky.  I hope I'm wrong.

[desmoquattro]

I agree with that.  From what I can tell, one of the reasons that the bike bucks, is due to Stoner whacking open the throttle still leaned over.

We made a point of watching for this while at Laguna. At Rainey Curve, turn 2, and others, Casey was on the throttle half a second sooner than the other Duc riders...and often sooner than the Yami and Honda riders.

[COWBOY]

Yeah, but sliding and bucking are two very different things.  I don't know if you've watched much flattrack but the bikes sure as heck aren't bucking like that.

Hopefully we'll have a chance to see what will happen next year, but I really don't think the Duc is the answer for Nicky.  I hope I'm wrong.

When I think of dirt bikes I think of motocross type tracks (jumps, hills, ruts, tight corners, etc) not flat tracks.  You learn to slide and you learn to trust/tame the bike even though it's a bucking bronco every lap.  That type of riding is what was the foundation of both Hayden and Stoners background.

[darylbowden]

When I think of dirt bikes I think of motocross type tracks (jumps, hills, ruts, tight corners, etc) not flat tracks.  You learn to slide and you learn to trust/tame the bike even though it's a bucking bronco every lap.  That type of riding is what was the foundation of both Hayden and Stoners background.

In that case you might be interested to know that Marco Melandri came up as a Motocrosser before he got into roadracing.

Hasn't helped him too much now has it?

[COWBOY]

In that case you might be interested to know that Marco Melandri came up as a Motocrosser before he got into roadracing.

Hasn't helped him too much now has it?

Didn't know that.  Looking at the bios of all 3 I'd say he has less time and certainly less racing experience on them though.  Who knows why he's riding scared?  If you could answer that and solve it Ducati would pay you handsomely for the rest of the year.

[darylbowden]

Didn't know that.  Looking at the bios of all 3 I'd say he has less time and certainly less racing experience on them though.  Who knows why he's riding scared?  If you could answer that and solve it Ducati would pay you handsomely for the rest of the year.

On MX?  I don't know about that.  Hayden rides/rode MX for fun (in fact he pulled out of yesterday's X games because the Supermoto track was too MX-y), but he was a dirttracker growing up and that's it.  I would say Marco spent more years MXing than Hayden ever has. 

Melandri is a very mental rider, when his head's not right, he struggles.  Look at his first 2 years in GP on the Yamaha, he was bloody awful, he crashed a ton, he was headed out of GP.  If he weren't Italian, he probably would've never been heard from again.  However, he got the ride on the Honda and did very well (many speculate) because he was confident that he had the best bike underneath him and he could really push it.

[COWBOY]

On MX?  I don't know about that.  Hayden rides/rode MX for fun (in fact he pulled out of yesterday's X games because the Supermoto track was too MX-y), but he was a dirttracker growing up and that's it.  I would say Marco spent more years MXing than Hayden ever has. 

Melandri is a very mental rider, when his head's not right, he struggles.  Look at his first 2 years in GP on the Yamaha, he was bloody awful, he crashed a ton, he was headed out of GP.  If he weren't Italian, he probably would've never been heard from again.  However, he got the ride on the Honda and did very well (many speculate) because he was confident that he had the best bike underneath him and he could really push it.

I'm not going to argue Melandri's bio with you whether he rode for 1-2 (which is how his bio reads) or 15 years in MX he sure is skittish once the bike slides or moves under him unlike Hayden or Stoner.  Whether Melandri could gold in X games or not is irrelevant to the argument that Casey and Hayden's MX experience and styles are more conducive to the Duc although it is an interesting tangent all the same.

Most predicted Hayden's struggle on the 800 because he wouldn't be able to square off the corners and power out like he did on the 900s.  That has proved to be true.  The Duc IMO will allow him to get closest to that riding style than any of the other 800s.  Just as I like Casey's chances for the rest of this year.  I'll put beer on Hayden being a top 5 rider for 2009 if he's on the Duc. 

[Super T.I.B]

Hmmmm......

[darylbowden]

  Whether Melandri could gold in X games or not is irrelevant to the argument that Casey and Hayden's MX experience and styles are more conducive to the Duc although it is an interesting tangent all the same.

I don't know if you misread or misunderstood, but Nicky Hayden was supposed to race supermoto at the X Games this weekend.  He pulled out when after practicing for a day he deemed the track too MX-centric and he didn't like doing triples on a SM bike.

As for the beers, you are ON.  Except, I don't drink, so you can pay me in a donation to the RRW action fund.

[COWBOY]

I don't know if you misread or misunderstood, but Nicky Hayden was supposed to race supermoto at the X Games this weekend.  He pulled out when after practicing for a day he deemed the track too MX-centric and he didn't like doing triples on a SM bike.

As for the beers, you are ON.  Except, I don't drink, so you can pay me in a donation to the RRW action fund.

I understood what you were saying about Nicky.  I was surprised he was even being allowed to do it by HRC.  No shame IMO of not wanting to risk the triples while on vacation.

cheers on the beers or in this case a donation to RRW.  Now all that has to happen is for Hayden to actually sign with Ducati.

Super, Thanks for posting the video.  Be interesting to put some of those corners next to some of his runs in 2006 on the GP bike and see how similar they really are technique wise.

[SloDuc]

We made a point of watching for this while at Laguna. At Rainey Curve, turn 2, and others, Casey was on the throttle half a second sooner than the other Duc riders...and often sooner than the Yami and Honda riders.

Concur, we watched many laps hanging over the outside of 6 and Stoner was always early on the throttle and the class of the field.  It was amazing that Rossi had the game plan to pull out the win.

[Jester]

I was surprised he was even being allowed to do it by HRC

I'm pretty sure HRC doesn't care much about what happens to Nicky at this point.  That relationship died a while ago.