Waste of money .....

[MonsterHPD]

Just let it be.
Wife`s 800 just works f the occasional Sunday ride, doesn´t it?
Sell the cams, put the money in the 1100 bottom.
Boring but sensible, I know...

Well, to be honest, wife has'nt ridden the 800 for several years du to prblems with her shoulders, but I have ridden it more and more for several years. I've even re-discovered monster track-day riding; great fun on short twisty tracks.  The Öhlins suspension both ends shurely helps :-)
But of course, your suggestion is the sensible alternative
:-)

[stopintime]

.......
But of course, your suggestion is the sensible alternative
:-)

How would it be a waste of money (the purpose of this thread) if you listen to sensible advice 

FWIW my cylinders haven't caused me any trouble at 840 cc (stupid to state publically as a fact, but...)

[MonsterHPD]

How would it be a waste of money (the purpose of this thread) if you listen to sensible advice 

FWIW my cylinders haven't caused me any trouble at 840 cc (stupid to state publically as a fact, but...)i

Haha, you have a point there ... :-)
And  the 840 seems to work very well for you, and I don't think you use the bike too gently ...

[stopintime]

 

[Speeddog]

Kopfjäger here has his Monster out to 859, as a 91x66 I think.

Not sure how many miles he has on it in that configuration.

Perhaps he'll pop in here and tell us. 

[MonsterHPD]

Kopfjäger here has his Monster out to 859, as a 91x66 I think.

Not sure how many miles he has on it in that configuration.

Perhaps he'll pop in here and tell us. 

That would be very interesting. If that´s on stock cylinders, that would have to be the limit .... 

[MonsterHPD]

Well, right now .... nothing, actually.

My mate has just finished putting ST cams in his 800 heads (can never remember it it´s 695 or 696 ...), so I´ll start with noting what he´s done so I can prepare the same since I have the cams. Then I´ll consider my options ...... maybe the kit will show up on Kämnas offer of the month list sometime soon ....

BTW, checking my mates 695 (or 696 ... ?) cylinders, the lower liner bit is 3 mm wall thickness. Going to 840 cc means this will go down to 2 mm. I´ve always been a bit wary of taking things to the limit unless I´m prepared to do a lot of maintenance, or accepting other drawbacks. 2 mm on an alu liner, even if it´s the lower part, seems rather on the limit to me. Any views or experience on this?           

I´ve checked again, seems I got something wrong last time ...
My mates 695 cylinders spigots are outer diameter 96 mm. Going to 90 mm bore would leave 3 mm wall thickness, that should be OK.

My mate also did some work to fit the ST2 cams in the 695 head. Keeping in mind it has not been final assembled yet, it seems the following is needed:

20161220_175126 by torbjörn bergström, on Flickr

A spacer ring to keep the bearing in the blind side cam cover against the seeger ring;

20161220_175241 by torbjörn bergström, on Flickr

A spacer bush to replace the 2nd bearing on older 2V motors.

To be confirmed when the heads are assembled.

If I got it right, the 695 and M800 motors are old style (roller bearing cams, no cylinder head gasket) and the 696 motors are new style (plain bearing cams, cylinder head gaskets). But I have not checked this ....

   

[stopintime]

My 800 heads require spacers to take the 900 ie cams

[Speeddog]

3 configurations AFAIK.

Early, 2 bearings on pulley end of cam.
Middle, 1 bearing on pulley end.
Late, all plain bearing.

Early and mid have different cam endcaps.

Early is a fairly thick flange for the 4 bolts, ~11mm thick at the edge, and a chamfer to allow better sparkplug access.
Snout that holds the bearing is 23mm long.

Middle has a thinner flange, ~8mm thick at the edge, and no chamfer.
Snout is ~16mm.

Early heads have a boss that's the same shape profile as the flange, about 10mm tall.
Middle heads have no boss at all.

"Early" may go from '02 as far back as the start of belt-drive cams, not sure.
"Middle" appears to have started in '03 with the 620 and 800 motors.

You may find that the fancy spacer you made for the pulley end of the cam is the same thickness as the inner race of the ball bearing that normally fits in the head.
At least that looked promising when I did a mockup.

[koko64]

What was the expected/hoped for increase in power from the addition of the ST2 cams to your planned engine recipe' compared to stock cams? I noticed on the CCW and MBP sites that they expected a 4-6hp increase from ST2 or 900ie cams compared to stock 900V cams. I am very interested to know what is expected from your planned engine configuration with these cams. A good mate has a 944SL with 900ie cams, but although we have not put it on the dyno yet, it now feels stronger from about 5000rpm upwards.

[MonsterHPD]

Speeddog, I think you're right on all points. The cam /head bits I did not do myself, but since the cam spacer is in place of the eliminated bearing, your observation is likely correct.
Koko64; I don't really have a target, and so far it's merely a mind game. 840 cc seems OK from a technical point of view, and the ST cams have 1 mm more lift (I think), and quite a bit more duration which has to be interesting :-)
And, I think it would make a very nice and sprighty motor.

[MonsterHPD]

Well,
this specific wast of money most likely will not happen in the foreseeable future.

Also the St cams will have to wait, acc to Kämna the pistons require modification. With more lift and more duration, I would not have just slammed the cams in without checking anyway, so < little too much work right now.

However, Kämna also states I need cylinder head gaskets. My mates 696 did not have gaskets, and I would have thought the M800-2003 motor was of the "old gen" type, with no gaskets, just the various O-rings. Anyone knows for sure  

[stopintime]

Mine, with Pistals and 900ie cams, has a base 'gasket' ~2(-3) mm.

[Speeddog]

400, 600, 620, 695, 750, 800 and 900 do not have head gaskets.

1100, DS1000, 796, 696 all have head gaskets.

[MonsterHPD]

Thanks Speeddog.
Seems logical. My friends motor is a 695, not 696,  and did not have a head gasket.