S4R Riding Issues

[TitanMonsterS4R]

Powers that be I'm hoping you can help me.

So it's happened twice, while riding my 2006 S4R dies. It fires back up and then it dies again for good.

The first time I was riding it for 1.5 hours in moderate temps. Rounding a corner, the bike just died. Tried to fire it back up and it goes through the normal start sequence (indicator lights come on/gauges sweep when key is in the on position/headlight comes and stays on/fuel pump primes). When I go to hit the starter button, i hear a click and the clutch tries to fire and then nothing. Got the bike towed home. Swapped the battery and checked it against the multimeter (above 3K RPM/ Shorai battery is above 13.78 volts), battery is being charged by the R/R (which was replaced 5/2013 with a MOSFIT).

-------------------------------------------------1.5 weeks pass with swapped battery-----------------------------------

Second time it happened was today. Rode the bike for about 30 min. and while approaching a traffic light, the bike died. Hit the starter, the bike fires back up. A Block later, the bike dies again. Symptoms are the same as above. Pump primes/gauges sweep/headlight comes on/when I go to hit the starter just a click. Clutch tries to turn over but nothing. Swap batteries and the bike starts rode it home.

If the R/R is still charging a battery, and with a new battery the bike fires up, where should I look as a possible culprit? I have no idea where to start next and thought I had this nipped?

Ground issue?
Drain from something else I'm not aware of?

Thanks community for the help.

TITAN OUT!

[koko64]

Hey mate.

Besides checking all the ground wires and battery terminal wires I would try bypassing the kickstand switch with a paperclip and tape. Also check the clutch cut out switch and test it by bypassing it. I had my kickstand switch give me trouble out of nowhere. Check the kickstand bolts and switch bolt for tightness. My kickstand bolts loosened and let my switch vibrate around and cut out the motor.

[Howie]

Start with a check of your charging system.  You want to see 13.5-14.5 volts at the battery, actually more than 13.5 with a Shorai.  Then test for voltage drop: charging     starting 

Yes these are cars, but the technique is the same.  It may be a good idea to install a voltmeter so you can see what happens on the road since this problem is intermittent and carry a meter with you for on road diagnosis.  And do what koko says, you wouldn't be the first victim of an intermittent  sidestand safety switch.

[koko64]

Actually good point Howie, a Shorai will not be fully charged at 13.5-13.7V. They like 14+ V. Hmmm, bad regulator connection? Pretty common.

[TitanMonsterS4R]

Also check the clutch cut out switch and test it by bypassing it.

how would I go about bypassing the clutch cutout switch?

[Howie]

Locate switch in the clutch lever assembly.  Follow wires to the connectors.  Unplug and bypass.  If the bike is in neutral and the light works it should start even if the clutch switch is toast.

[TitanMonsterS4R]

Locate switch in the clutch lever assembly.  Follow wires to the connectors.  Unplug and bypass.  If the bike is in neutral and the light works it should start even if the clutch switch is toast.

Thanks Howie.

Plan for tonight is to check battery at idle and 4K with multimeter. Then clean every single make the beast with two backsin connector I can find. Then bypass the clutch cutoff switch and also check the starter housing. Kickstand bypass was already done but will double check that one too!

Forgetting anything?

[TitanMonsterS4R]

Bought some contact cleaner and went to work. Cleaned the connectors from the R/R to the Stator. Looked really clean and not burned out at all. Cleaned the R/R connectors to the battery.

Using a multimeter got the following readings:

Bike in OFF position - Battery 12.81v
Bike in ON position - Battery 12.73v
Bike RUNNING and idle at 1250RPM - Battery 12.6v
Bike RUNNING and Revving at 4000RPM - Battery rose to 12.8v and would climb ever so slightly

Checking the stator with the multimeter, I changed it to Ohms reading and got the following results:
Prong 1 to 2 = .1
Prong 1 to 3 = .1
Prong 2 to 3 = .1

Was I correct to check from the 3 prong plug side as thats what comes from my stator and connects to my R/R?

[Speeddog]

How about this:

Bike RUNNING and idle at 1250RPM, and Bike RUNNING and Revving at 4000RPM -

Prong 1 to 2 =  XX.X V AC
Prong 1 to 3 = YY.Y V AC
Prong 2 to 3 = ZZ.Z V AC

Just the output of the stator, not connected to the R/R.

[TitanMonsterS4R]

How about this:

Bike RUNNING and idle at 1250RPM, and Bike RUNNING and Revving at 4000RPM -

Prong 1 to 2 =  XX.X V AC
Prong 1 to 3 = YY.Y V AC
Prong 2 to 3 = ZZ.Z V AC

Just the output of the stator, not connected to the R/R.

what should I be seeing Speeddog?

[Howie]

12.8 and below is critical on a Shorai.
http://shoraipower.com/lfxcheck   Scroll down to SOC chart.  

If possible I would install an AGM battery until you sort things out.  You want to avoid wrecking that battery.

The chart from these folks saves me a lot of typing.
http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide
I find voltage readings from the stator windings more accurate than resistance.  My guess is either your regulator is toast or you have high resistance in a connection.  You really want to use voltage drop for checking connections, not resistance.  Often problems don't show up without a load.  Oh, do check the ground side too.  Also, sometimes it is OK to let a good (OK, rare find) shop handle a problem.

How about this:

Bike RUNNING and idle at 1250RPM, and Bike RUNNING and Revving at 4000RPM -

Prong 1 to 2 =  XX.X V AC
Prong 1 to 3 = YY.Y V AC
Prong 2 to 3 = ZZ.Z V AC

Just the output of the stator, not connected to the R/R.

Zakly!  Yep, from one of those rare good shops.

You want to see about 30 volts over 2K rpm.  Report back what you get.

[TitanMonsterS4R]

Alright legends -

Went out to preform the latest series of tests. Unplugged stator wire to conduct an AC test, bike wouldnt crank over. Tried one more time and got the click noise but no crank over. Plugged stator back in and tried to fire bike up, nothing....

Checked the volts from the battery 7v. It climbed to 9 pretty quickly and then began to slowly increase.....

What does this latest bit of news tell you?

[Howie]

Your battery is drained.  At above 12.8 it should have been recharged.  This is also why I suggested using an AGM battery until all is good.  If you open the link to Shorai's SOC (state of charge) any voltage below 12.86 is dangerous to the battery.  This is only 20% charge, not enough to crank a bike.  Do try charging it.  Some folk have saved them.  Unfortunately, there is no field method to test the capacity of that battery.

[TitanMonsterS4R]

thanks for everyones help. Still completely stumped as to why the charging unit is acting up. Spoke to Brad the Biker to see if he could help as well.

Bike's going in.....will report the issue once resolved.

[Speeddog]

I've had a few voltage regulators that would work fine when cold, then malfunction when they got hot.

One or two units that would malfunction in that way, and would start ramming the battery with voltage, IIRC 16V (likely would go higher, I shut them off when I saw the voltage climbing rapidly on the meter  )

Not sure how a Shorai would react to that kind of abuse.

The vast majority of the voltage regulator failures are total, they just do nothing at all times.