Termi 2 into 1 Vs 2-1-2

[koko64]

My Hyper has a Termi full system 2 into 1.
I have been reading up and thinking about modifying it to be more like the M1100 Evo 2-1-2 system. Got a lead on another Termi 2-1 system that I cant quite afford yet. With the help of a skilled custom exhaust guy I know, I was looking at adding the extra muffler for an over and under shotgun style with a good fabbed up link pipe as a crossover. That way I could attempt to add some scavenging and double the muffler volume. The large volume header goes into a single very large pipe and then exit into a Y pipe feeding the mufflers. Some have claimed the Termi full 2-1 kit is more fashion than function and I have always wanted to dyno test this. Reading bikeboy and Doug Lofgren's tests has made me wonder about how potentially restrictive the 2-1 system is. JD Hord however, has a dyno sheet showing a 5-6hp increase over the stock system with the Termi 2-1 full system and ECU. I guess the kit ECU helps deal with the very lean American tune you guys get.
Any thoughts?

[Speeddog]

I fabbed up a 2-1 system for an S2R800.
This allowed fitment of a centerstand and allowed use of soft panniers, as the owner was focused on multi-day sport touring.



The can was large, a Delkevic 18" oval can:
http://delkevic.us/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=27332&search=18&category_id=124120&Title=18%22+Carbon+Fiber+Oval+Muffler&SKU=PR1868

I thought it ran fine, and it was quieter than I expected.
No dyno run, so there you go.....

[Howie]

I think you won't know unless you try it.  My guess would be a slight loss of total power, but an increase mid range.   

[koko64]

I fabbed up a 2-1 system for an S2R800.
This allowed fitment of a centerstand and allowed use of soft panniers, as the owner was focused on multi-day sport touring.



The can was large, a Delkevic 18" oval can:
http://delkevic.us/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=27332&search=18&category_id=124120&Title=18%22+Carbon+Fiber+Oval+Muffler&SKU=PR1868

I thought it ran fine, and it was quieter than I expected.
No dyno run, so there you go.....

Those pipes are affordable.

[koko64]

I think you won't know unless you try it.  My guess would be a slight loss of total power, but an increase mid range.   

Im certainly chasing peak power since sheer grunt and acceleration off corners is in abundance.

[Speeddog]

Those pipes are affordable.

And nice kit as well, quality stuff.

They come in an all-stainless can as well, they're polished to a mirror finish.

[koko64]

Yankie Staintunes but lighter from the looks of it.   I think they look better too.

[koko64]

My concern from the Lofgren and bikeboy articles is around insufficient muffler volume and exhaust exit port in relation to cylinder capacity. It may restrict peak torque and peak horsepower for the large capacity Ducati motors with their particular big bang firing order. It appears more pronounced the larger the cylinder volume. It's an area in which I'm dependent upon those with a greater theoretical framework than myself (and dyno access).
What are your thoughts on Lofgren's position? (See "A Short Rant on 2 into 1 exhausts") on Lofgren's site in the 2 valve tech reports.

[Speeddog]

That's the 'mechanism' for the peak power restriction, as I understand it.

Your engine is over a third larger, and specific output higher, as it's heads are at least 2 design cycles further on from the S2R800.
Delkevic is a 2" bore, how does that compare with your Termi?

FWIW, we didn't run the DB killer in the Delkevic, it was plenty quiet without it.

[koko64]

Those pipes look good and lighter than the local brand.

I think the Termi core is 54mm so about 2".

[Howie]

Lofgren and bikeboy are the gold platinum standard IMO.  Volumetric efficiency comes into play also.  Probably big time on that stump puller EVO.  I think you would probably need a can the size of what is on a new BMW GS 1200 or bigger to work if you go 2 into 1. 

[koko64]

I have the DP 2 into 1 full system which I have set up to take another muffler with a crossover section. As funds allow (Paypal a/c not as healthy as I thought), I will get another DP 2 into 1 system and only have to sacrifice one mid pipe to test this. If it doesn't work I'll put it back to the DP Termi 2 into 1 and have some spares.

The DP kit I have a lead on is the complete kit including DP ECU, carbon side covers, etc. For $750 its a good deal.
Gotta squeeze it in.