UPDATE - LEGENDARY ALUMINUM TANK REVIEW/EXPERIENCE

[Legendarycheryl]

Our production plans are to change to cast bottoms which will facilitate Blind threaded attachments. We will also be changing the cap to a twist lock style with a new style filler well which will include blind threads.
While this bottom issue was not typical, and there was an error in assembly, when the S2R bottom panels were welded into this tank. We immediately brought it back and replaced the tank. We purchased an additional pump to test fit with the customer’s tank. While installing it we discovered that one of the hose clamps needs to be rotated 90 degrees, so the adjuster side is away from the inner tank and it slips into place easily. Once in place the Fuel pump does not contact the inner tank.
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to share our perspective and our plans.

[Legendarycheryl]

Thank you for the suggestion of solid vent tubing, however you are correct, the vibration, expansion and contraction would be a sure failure. We have chosen the best quality, most reliable and usable solutions to the complex configuration of these tanks.
Please remember we Warranty our tanks, which has not been mentioned here as of yet. If the Vent lines go bad or need replacing it is easier and safer for us to bring the tank in and do the necessary repairs. No that is not what we all hope for. However it is the reality of manufacturing and maintaining our reputation for excellent customer service.

[koko64]

Thanks for clarifying that. Do you have to cut the tank open to change lines or will the cast base have provision for service access? I honestly assumed some kind of warranty given the product and country of origin.

[booger]

Dang. Well done Dave and Cheryl from Legendary. Means a lot to me personally to see you come in here and respond, also when my Caswell fails I will now have an option to continue ownership of an otherwise fantastic motorcycle.

[ducpainter]

Thank you for the suggestion of solid vent tubing, however you are correct, the vibration, expansion and contraction would be a sure failure. We have chosen the best quality, most reliable and usable solutions to the complex configuration of these tanks.
Please remember we Warranty our tanks, which has not been mentioned here as of yet. If the Vent lines go bad or need replacing it is easier and safer for us to bring the tank in and do the necessary repairs. No that is not what we all hope for. However it is the reality of manufacturing and maintaining our reputation for excellent customer service.

Just a question Dave. The early Monster steel tanks had internal lines that were solid steel tubing, and in all the hundreds of tanks I've repaired, I never had to repair a cracked/broken tube...plugged yes. Is the difference in the properties of aluminum, in the available alloys, the reason you believe a solid tube would fail?

BTW, I also appreciate you being here to discuss this. Too many manufacturers wouldn't even consider it.

[koko64]

Just to clarify, in the event of failure the internal fuel line is a warranty item requiring the tank to be cut open or is the line accessible for servicing? Pardon me if I missed that point. Submersible fuel line of the best quality would be considered a higher mileage service item and generally not impervious to ethanol fuels, which is more of a problem on your side of the pond. Is there a submersible line ethanol compatible that you use? The whole issue of aftermarket tanks has been partially driven by ethanol fuels.

[Heath]

Props to Legendary for the great responses! Time to hit the lotto so I can get an Alum tank for the S4RT.

[booger]

Perhaps use that hard plastic accordion tubing similar to what's used on the fuel pump assembly for the vent tubing? Surely the submerged tubing problem can be solved somehow.

[Speeddog]

I’ll start with a short description of my qualifications that are relevant to a discussion of motorcycle fuel tanks.
I’ve got a Bachelor of Science degree in Mechanical Engineering.
I’ve been working on cars and bikes for 50 years (yes, since I was 5).
My father has both a BSME and an MSME degree.
I’ve worked as a mechanical engineer for Billion dollar companies in motorsports and aerospace.
I’ve been fitting aftermarket parts to motorcycles for 40 years.
I am far more than “A fellow with a Ducati repair garage”.
That’s more than enough dick swinging for the matter at hand, so we won’t need to go there again.

and have one unhappy customer that his mechanic evidently talked him into a Kevlar resin tank.

I don’t know who you’re talking about, but it’s not me, I’ve not talked my unhappy customer into a Kevlar resin tank.

The mechanic showed photos of lack of blind holes in two locations. The pump flange and fuel cap well as if we perpetrated an unacceptable method or standard. All other metal manufacturered tanks on showroom floors all over the world are designed and built like that. It's the "standard" and we supply an aerospace quality fuel sealant to use on those screw threads as opposed to a composite tank where that's the method you have to use.
 Unfortunately it's been put forth in a way that implies we did something underhanded.

Open (non-blind) holes
The first two sentences are true, I indeed showed photos of the lack of blind holes in two locations, and I stand by the conclusion that it’s “an unacceptable method or standard”..
The rest of your statement is categorically untrue.
I’ve never seen a motorcycle gas tank in metal or plastic with non-blind holes through to the interior in the manner you have executed.
I’ve inspected 4 different style Ducati tanks in my shop, using a borescope.
None of those have non-blind holes.
In anticipation of a reply along the lines of “Well, everyone *else* does it that way.” Here’s a photo of the petcock mounting flange on an aluminum Honda RC30 gas tank.
It clearly shows a boss on the inside so that the screw hole is blind.
All of the other holes on that tank are the same as well, possessing bosses such that the holes are blind.



The “Aerospace quality fuel sealant” was neither provided with either tank, nor mentioned until I identified the through holes as a potential leak.

I have talked to Damon Industries directly about their Red-Kote.
They categorically denied any “Aerospace” qualifications for that product.

Furthermore, the holes in your tank for the latch and the rubber pads are blind.
There must be some reason you did it that way, as it's more difficult.
Why did you only do some of the holes that way?

Rubber lines

The rubber lines in the tank will eventually fail and need to be replaced.
The Legendary tank in my shop, the one that I photographed, cannot have the hoses replaced without cutting the tank open, as you stated. Are you stating that cutting the tank open to replace the lines is a “standard” repair method?

Regarding metal lines, the above noted RC30 tank has aluminum tubing inside the tank, welded in place to provide a filler cavity drain.


Fuel Pump Clearance

We also had a group of 3 tanks that were inadvertently fabricated with the S2R panels which interfered with fuel pump assembly. These tanks were shipped back at our expense and repaired immediately. The hose which had spec'd as immersible came in as non on a tank and customer service offered, again to have the tank returned on our dime for refitting.

That describes the first tank that I received, it did interfere massively with the fuel pump assembly.
Indeed, it was shipped back at your expense.
The 2nd tank is definitely not the 1st tank in a repaired state, the welds and surface finish marks on it do not match the photos I have of the 1st tank.

Yes, you offered to have the 2nd tank returned and refitted with proper hose.

Regarding your Offers

There are other things you offered to me, when we spoke on the phone about the issues with the first tank. You offered me the opportunity to measure the tank and fuel pump, and mark where it needed to be clearanced or modified to avoid interference with the fuel pump assembly. But I’d need to check to make sure that mod didn’t interfere with the battery, or the wiring, or or or ….You even offered the opportunity to fix it myself or have someone else fix it.

You’re now offering me the opportunity to box up the 2nd tank, and tote it to UPS, so you guys can fix it too.

All of these offers and opportunities for future work, plus the work that I had to do test fitting the tank and parts, taking pictures, talking with my customer, talking with you, writing the first summary, and writing this reply.

These offers, and opportunities, are only missing one thing.
Payment.
You manufactured the tank and sold it to my customer.
You now have that money.
Yet, you’ve never offered to pay me for the time I’ve put in to identify the problems.
Or pay me for boxing up the 1st tank and taking it to UPS.
Nor offered to pay me for the R&D effort to help you fix it.
Let alone the cost of somebody else fixing it.
I’ve easily spent 5 hours on it just today, and certainly at least that much again with all the work done before.
I’m more than happy to send you an invoice for that, say 10 hours at my shop rate of $84/hr.
Because I can't in good conscience bill my customer for errors that *you* made.
Would you like me to send that invoice via email or USPS?

Liability

Along with the previous offers of fixing it myself, or having someone fix it, or using a liquid sealer on the threaded holes, comes the attachment of liability. The moment I do something, it becomes my problem too.
I am not willing to go bankrupt paying lawyers to defend myself against the consequences of errors that *you* made.

Additionally, quite a few houses here have a gas-fired water heater in the attached garage.
So, there is the risk of an internal non-immersion rated hose leaking, let’s say 3 gallons of gasoline onto the floor of a closed garage with an open flame in the water heater.
Those houses have bedrooms attached to the garage, or even over it.
I have no desire to have that disaster hanging over my head.

[kopfjäger]

 

[uglyducky]

Side note: there are two legendary tank owners in this thread, neither of them are happy with their tanks.

At this point I just want my money back so that I can purchase another outrageously priced product that is built right the first, not third, time. My mechanic didn’t talk me into buying anything, I wrote you an email stating I was going to purchase from another manufacturer upon hearing the issues in the second tank. You made the rest of the story up about a Kevlar tank and me being talked into that. I have no interest at this point in a Kevlar tank, I’m going to buy a Japanese ”beater” alum tank as they appear to be a better built piece.

For the record, I told you at legendary that I suspected the first tank had the wrong bottom pan and was intended for an S2r. I was told you’ve made “hundreds” of these tanks for the s4rs and you knew how to make them. Surprisingly, you needed a fuel pump to complete the build and asked me to send you mine. You certainly asked (after some serious shade throwing) my mechanic to help identify and rectify your deficiencies in craftsmanship. I’m not saying anything underhanded happened but I do believe there are a few stories that don’t seem to add up. Now we are pushing 5 months and you’re asking me to send the tank back YET AGAIN for a god knows when turnaround? So I get to spend half a year waiting on the right version of a tank you’ve made hundreds of??? Did I just really get that lucky? For $2k this is absolute bullshit.

[Speeddog]

Legal council has advised me that my above statements regarding the liability are indeed true, and that in reality the exposure may even be worse.

[uglyducky]

Our production plans are to change to cast bottoms which will facilitate Blind threaded attachments. We will also be changing the cap to a twist lock style with a new style filler well which will include blind threads.

yet you are unwilling to offer these amendments to the tank in question here . . . I think this speaks volumes to the integrity of the operation.

[booger]

I remain hopeful the tanks will one day be GTG. Meanwhile I just got a great deal on a NOS S4RS tank, never had fuel in it. I'll keep it as a spare. Let's not beat Legendary up too bad here folks. It's hard to want to try and work with people when they're attacking you.

[stopintime]

I try to be understanding and usually appreciate effort even if it's not a great result at first try.

Selling these tanks at full price.... maybe the product wasn't finished...

If they can take a good forum beating, accept the shortcomings and correct them = respect.


Maybe California CycleWorks should make a stockish looking tank. I remember that being the (our?) plan, but ended being only their track tank. It has proved itself and is quite affordable.