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Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
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Topic: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking (Read 10926 times)
koko64
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #15 on:
August 06, 2022, 11:31:59 PM »
Quote from: Howie on August 06, 2022, 03:18:46 PM
Check the injector seals too. Also could be slightly leaking injectors or the throttle plate not coming to it's proper position due to dirt.
Yeah, there can be a line showing a ridge of dirt build up.
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2015 Scrambler 800
2004 GSXR 750
greenmonster
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #16 on:
August 07, 2022, 01:20:27 AM »
Shot in the dark:
How long since TPS reset?
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koko64
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #17 on:
August 07, 2022, 01:40:16 AM »
Quote from: greenmonster on August 07, 2022, 01:20:27 AM
Shot in the dark:
How long since TPS reset?
Worth doing all that stuff after a rebuild.
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2015 Scrambler 800
2004 GSXR 750
stopintime
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #18 on:
August 07, 2022, 07:24:17 AM »
Quote from: ducpainter on August 06, 2022, 10:36:46 AM
I'm pretty sure that the idle speed is adjusted with the air bleeds, but I'm not a fuelie guy.
There may be a stop screw. Check with the shop.
There is a stop screw VERY well hidden between the two body halves. LT Snyder describes the diagnostic software in a chapter about trim - it has a box for idle speed, but without a stepper motor I don't understand how the ECU can regulate idle speed.... maybe with fuel? Again; the shop will hopefully tell me what they did / didn't do / forgot.
... aaand we have the air bleeds.
Quote from: Howie on August 06, 2022, 03:18:46 PM
Check the injector seals too. Also could be slightly leaking injectors or the throttle plate not coming to it's proper position due to dirt.
I checked that they are well mounted. Just a tiny bit of wiggle - as expected from items with ok seals. They could still be leaking, so I'll keep them on the list for a day when I have time and courage to dig my way to them ... Throttle butterflies, or rather the intake where they operate, were cleaned not so long ago and they slam shut, but will put them on the list too ...
Quote from: koko64 on August 06, 2022, 11:30:02 PM
How many turns out are the TB air screws?
Don't know. I'll check with the shop before I decide if they might need adjustments.
Quote from: greenmonster on August 07, 2022, 01:20:27 AM
Shot in the dark:
How long since TPS reset?
Ages. Recently. Shop will know. Work Shop manual states that it must be reset after a replacement (means no need unless...?) Maybe if someone knocked it out of place or if wires/connectors are up for renewal ...
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237,000 km/sixteen years - loving it
Orange16
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #19 on:
August 10, 2022, 03:42:09 AM »
Which model is it?
Has it changed after recent work?
If it doesn't have a stepper motor then the air bleeds control the idle speed. Wind them in to lower the idle. That will most likely help with the slow return to idle too.
Changing the air bleed setting will change the idle mixture, so it's a two step process.
Changing the ignition advance in the idle map is another way to change how they return to idle, but that's a more advanced step and not something that changes.
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stopintime
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S2R 800 '07
Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #20 on:
August 20, 2022, 10:44:40 AM »
The shop is closed another two weeks.
Similar weather and similar engine temperature:
It no longer fluctuate to 2,500 revs. Now only to 2,000 and maybe a little less often.
After reving it, it slowly'ish settles at 2,000 and after another two three second to 1,500. So, the reduced engine breaking is still a problem.
I checked the air bleeds today. They were all the way in. Tried one full turn out (yes, a 360) = nothing. Another half turn = nothing. Another full turn = nothing. All the way in = nothing. Maybe, just maybe, a little crisp'er throttle response with the bleeds out (MAYBE).
I'll throw in another factor.... not at all scientific, but I get the impression that it gets warmer during city riding. Maybe 5-10 degrees C. I'm curious to hear what the shop might have changed, if anything. Maybe something in the ECU fuel/spark maps.... to control the bike's temperament a little...
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koko64
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #21 on:
August 28, 2022, 02:34:00 AM »
Any news?
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greenmonster
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #22 on:
August 28, 2022, 05:47:20 AM »
Quote
I'm curious to hear what the shop might have changed, if anything. Maybe something in the ECU fuel/spark maps.... to control the bike's temperament a little...
https://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.com/2019/07/multistrada-1000-not-idling-ecu-based.html?m=1
Longish but fix at end might interest.
«
Last Edit: August 28, 2022, 08:51:09 AM by greenmonster
»
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stopintime
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #23 on:
August 28, 2022, 01:17:04 PM »
Quote from: koko64 on August 28, 2022, 02:34:00 AM
Any news?
Hopefully this coming week.
Quote from: greenmonster on August 28, 2022, 05:47:20 AM
https://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.com/2019/07/multistrada-1000-not-idling-ecu-based.html?m=1
Longish but fix at end might interest.
Well... I don't have a stepper, so ......
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greenmonster
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #24 on:
August 28, 2022, 03:26:52 PM »
You are courius if shop altered ignition map, you said.
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stopintime
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #25 on:
September 14, 2022, 09:45:18 AM »
Shop replied and suspect TPS - at least as a primary suspect.
I had the TPS checked and reset twice. 2.5 (mV?) both times. So, it's not the TPS.
The vertical cylinder's plug is showing signs of lean running. The copper spacer (to lift the plug off the piston) is squashed and maybe there was false air sucked in. You can see that the threads are dry and clean. I don't know if that's possible, but the signs are clear. The other major sign is that the 'tip' from inside the ceramic is no longer a tip. It's gone / reduced down to the level of the ceramic.
The horizontal cylinder's plug is more or less normal.
VERTICAL
HORIZONTAL
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ducpainter
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #26 on:
September 14, 2022, 02:58:25 PM »
How many miles on those plugs?
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koko64
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #27 on:
September 14, 2022, 04:40:38 PM »
Quote from: stopintime on September 14, 2022, 09:45:18 AM
Shop replied and suspect TPS - at least as a primary suspect.
I had the TPS checked and reset twice. 2.5 (mV?) both times. So, it's not the TPS.
The vertical cylinder's plug is showing signs of lean running. The copper spacer (to lift the plug off the piston) is squashed and maybe there was false air sucked in. You can see that the threads are dry and clean. I don't know if that's possible, but the signs are clear. The other major sign is that the 'tip' from inside the ceramic is no longer a tip. It's gone / reduced down to the level of the ceramic.
The horizontal cylinder's plug is more or less normal.
VERTICAL
HORIZONTAL
Shit! How's compression on that cylinder? I wonder if an air leak has melted it away (or runaway ignition timing issue). Yet the side electrode appears dark. If ignition advance got away it would be white along its length well past the half way mark (unless oil has since stained it dark).
Howie to the courtesy phone!
«
Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 04:47:03 PM by koko64
»
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Howie
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #28 on:
September 14, 2022, 05:02:29 PM »
Ummm....wow!
For sure you want to start with a compression test. If compression is good enough, then injector volume and pattern. I do think koko's thoughts on the air leak is probably it. I don't like the looks of the copper "spacer", could be the problem.
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stopintime
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Re: Revs fall slowly - not enough engine braking
«
Reply #29 on:
September 15, 2022, 12:16:38 AM »
Quote from: ducpainter on September 14, 2022, 02:58:25 PM
How many miles on those plugs?
I din't know. They were probaly replaced this summer = 5,000 mies. Last summer.... ~15,000
Quote from: koko64 on September 14, 2022, 04:40:38 PM
Shit! How's compression on that cylinder? I wonder if an air leak has melted it away (or runaway ignition timing issue). Yet the side electrode appears dark. If ignition advance got away it would be white along its length well past the half way mark (unless oil has since stained it dark).
Howie to the courtesy phone!
Compression was good, but that was without the squashed copper spacer issue (during the test procedure)
Quote from: Howie on September 14, 2022, 05:02:29 PM
Ummm....wow!
For sure you want to start with a compression test. If compression is good enough, then injector volume and pattern. I do think koko's thoughts on the air leak is probably it. I don't like the looks of the copper "spacer", could be the problem.
New plugs and new spacers yesterday, so I'll check in a few days. The idle is still too high (especially between 60-80 degrees C)(~140-180F).
The fuel map was done (or maybe just confirmed) after the last work in July. Good A/F ratio all along the range. That Dyno work also showed improved peak power and beautiful curves all along the rev range. Even so, I can't reach the top speed I used to. Missing almost 15mph.
Something is not quite right.
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