Need help diagnosing a charging/electrical issue on my 2011 Monster 696

[NahuelCabralARG696]

Hi everyone,

I'm hoping someone has experienced something similar because this issue has become a real mystery.

Here's the full timeline:

* Bought the bike with 15K km on it. No issues at all. Had desmoservice done. A few months later, started seeing acid dropping from the battery. Replaced battery (Yuasa).
* The bike started having intermittent starting problems. When I pressed the starter button, I would only hear repeated "click-click-click" from the starter relay. The dashboard, lights and horn would all work normally, and eventually it cranked and started. Until one day it didn't start anymore.

* If I installed a fully charged battery, the bike would start immediately without hesitation.
* My mechanic diagnosed a faulty voltage regulator and replaced it.
* Since the battery had likely been damaged by the charging issue, I replaced it with a brand-new Yuasa battery.
* After replacing both the regulator and the battery, the bike started perfectly.
* The mechanic kept the bike for three days and it started every time.

When I took the bike out of the mechanic, it started just fine, but the voltage indicator in the dashboard said 12v and tilted. However it started.

Then I left the bike at a dealership because I'm selling it.

For the next 10 days, they started the bike once a day to keep it running, but they did not ride it. As far as I know, they only started it, let it idle for a while, and shut it off.

Yesterday they called me because the bike is doing exactly the same thing again:

* Dashboard powers up normally.
* Lights and horn work.
* Pressing the starter only produces repeated "click-click-click."
* It behaves exactly like a discharged battery.

One thing that may or may not be related:

For a long time I've had an intermittent issue with the right turn signal. There is a damaged connector under the seat. Sometimes the right indicator would stop working, and simply moving that connector would make it work again. I don't know if that connector could indicate a wiring issue elsewhere in the harness.

At this point I'm trying to understand where to look next.

Could this be:

* A faulty stator?
* A parasitic battery drain?
* A wiring or ground issue?
* A bad connector or damaged wiring harness?
* Or could simply starting the bike every day without actually riding it for 10 days have discharged the battery in the winter (I'm in Argentina) no more than 10 °C in the winter.

Tomorrow I'm taking the battery to be tested, and I'll also ask for charging system measurements (battery voltage at rest, charging voltage at idle and around 3,000-4,000 rpm).

Has anyone experienced something similar on a Monster? Any advice on what should be checked before replacing more parts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Howie]

I suspect high resistance in the starting circuit.

Here is a video how-to:

 https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=c5e5bdd43a03f492bb5869671c5deee387fe11d4644bb4d5f15b0dcebca3e1f2JmltdHM9MTc4Mjk1MDQwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=0f07c652-a119-6e01-2fb9-d3cea0c36fc3&u=a1L3ZpZGVvcy9yaXZlcnZpZXcvcmVsYXRlZHZpZGVvP3E9c3RhcnRpbmcrY2lyY3VpdCtyZXNpc3RhbmNlK2NoZWNrJm1pZD05RDNBN0Q1ODc0Q0NGQzIxM0ZCQTlEM0E3RDU4NzRDQ0ZDMjEzRkJBJmNodXJsPWh0dHBzJTNhJTJmJTJmd3d3LnlvdXR1YmUuY29tJTJmY2hhbm5lbCUyZlVDY0taQmFLdm5tLURDWmNXQ181ek9KQSZGT1JNPVZJUkU&ntb=1

Yes, it is a car, but the method is the same.

[GreasySnipe]

Or check the ECU and engine ground. If its slightly loose and shifts ever so slightly enough to break connection, it'll produce this kind of issue. It could just e a crappy Yuasa battery too- I got a stack of them I need to get rid of.

[ducpainter]

To add to what Howie said, starting a bike and letting it run for a minute will not allow the battery to fully recover. Done 10 days in a row could possibly discharge it enough to cause a no start.

[Howie]

True on both of the above.

[ducpainter]

Wonder how he made out

[NahuelCabralARG696]

Quick update, since a few of you asked how this turned out.

The problem came back again after the bike had been sitting at the dealership. The symptoms were still exactly the same: press the starter, get a rapid click-click from the starter relay, and eventually it would crank and start.

I finally took the bike to an auto/motorcycle electrician and left it with him so he could reproduce the problem.

First, he confirmed that the battery was not simply being discharged while the bike was sitting. He fully charged it, left the bike overnight, and the next morning the starting problem was still there.

He then bypassed the starter relay/solenoid and the engine cranked immediately and started with barely half a turn. So the starter motor itself seems to be fine and the battery still had enough energy to crank the engine.

He found some corrosion/moisture around the starter relay connections which was causing poor contact and making the relay chatter instead of engaging the starter properly. He cleaned and repaired that area and initially suspected the relay itself, so he tested the bike using another relay.

However, after more testing, he noticed something else.

Using his battery tester, he found that when my battery's available starting current drops to around 130–160 A, the starting problem appears. Above roughly 165 A, the bike starts normally.

The battery currently installed is a Yuasa YT12B-BS. It is almost new and is 12 V / 10 Ah, which matches the battery specification in the Monster 696 owner's manual. However, despite charging normally and showing normal voltage, it does not seem to maintain enough cranking performance under load.

This also explains why the problem was confusing: charging voltage is normal (around 14 V with the engine running), the battery can appear fully charged, lights and dashboard work normally, but when the starter is actually requested the relay begins chattering and the starter does not engage.

My electrician checked the technical information and is now considering a Yuasa YTZ12S, which has a higher-performance design and much stronger measured cranking output on his tester.

Before I spend money on another battery, though, he is going to borrow a known-good YTZ12S and connect it temporarily to the bike. He wants to test several cold starts over a few days and make sure the click-click problem completely disappears before calling this solved.

So at this point I am NOT calling the battery the definitive cause yet, but that is where the diagnosis is heading.

Also, looking back at the replies here, you guys were onto something:

* Howie's suggestion about resistance in the starting circuit was relevant, since there actually was a bad/corroded connection around the relay.
* GreasySnipe's comment about grounds/connections and even the possibility of a bad Yuasa battery turned out to be very relevant as well.
* And the repeated short starts at the dealership probably didn't help the battery's state of charge, even though that doesn't appear to have been the root cause.

I'll update the thread again once we test it with the YTZ12S. Hopefully the next update is the final one!

[stopintime]

Thanks

My money (allowed to spread my bets wide?) is on stator, connector between stator and R/R, but also the wiring battery-relay-starter. Some add beefier wires there.
No money on the battery.

[GreasySnipe]

Keep us updated! I hope you get this cured and back on the road soon!

[koko64]

Your sparky has demonstrated an interesting point. A battery can be fully charged but can definitely become compromised due to any of the issues mentioned. An injured or compromised battery will lose its "torque" so to speak and cranking performance declines. I'm getting seven to ten years out of top end Yuasa batteries if they are well maintained and the supporting components in the charging system don't let them down. I think you've found a good sparky.

[NahuelCabralARG696]

**Update on the intermittent no-crank / clicking issue**

A lot has happened since my last update, so I figured I would summarize everything we know so far.

The original symptom was always basically the same: I press START, the starter relay sometimes chatters/clicks rapidly, the starter motor does not crank, and then eventually the bike may suddenly crank and start normally.

At first, the obvious suspect was the battery.

The bike currently has a Yuasa YT12B-BS, which is basically new and matches the 12 V / 10 Ah specification listed in the Ducati manual. The charging system also appears to be working normally, with around 14 V measured while the engine is running.

We tested two Yuasa batteries. After being properly charged, one tested at around 225 A and the older one around 255 A on the battery tester. The better one was then left in the bike for several days and later tested around 185 A after sitting, and the bike still started normally.

So at this point, simply saying "the battery is too weak" does not explain everything very well.

We also found corrosion/moisture around the starter relay area. The relay was making poor contact and sometimes chattering instead of engaging properly. That area was cleaned and I replaced the starter relay completely with a new one.

For a while the bike behaved normally.

Then the problem came back.

Here is the most important test so far:

When the bike refuses to crank through the normal START button circuit, the electrician can bypass the starter control circuit and activate the starter directly.

When he does that, the starter motor immediately cranks the engine and the bike starts almost instantly.

That strongly suggests that:

* the battery has enough power to crank the engine,
* the starter motor itself is capable of doing its job,
* the new starter relay / power side can work,
* and the problem is somewhere on the control/authorization side of the starter circuit.

I also finally managed to find the proper Ducati Monster 696 workshop manual, not just the owner's manual.

According to the workshop manual, the starter button does not directly operate the starter relay.

The ECU manages the starting strategy.

It receives information from:

* Engine Stop / kill switch
* START button
* Neutral switch
* Side stand switch
* Clutch switch

If the combination of those inputs is valid, the ECU then authorizes the starter relay.

So this is where we are now.

The next step is to catch the motorcycle while the fault is actually happening and measure the control circuit instead of replacing more parts.

The plan is:

1. Measure the two small control wires at the starter relay while pressing START.

2. If there is a stable starter command there, then the ECU is authorizing the start and we need to keep looking at wiring, connections, grounds, voltage drop, etc.

3. If there is no command, check whether the START signal is actually reaching the ECU.

4. Check the ECU inputs for neutral, clutch, side stand and Engine Stop while the problem is happening.

5. If all ECU inputs are correct but the ECU does not produce the starter output, then the starter-output driver inside the ECU becomes a serious suspect.

6. If the ECU produces the output but it never reaches the relay, then we have a wiring/connector problem between the ECU and the relay.

We are also keeping voltage-drop testing, grounds and starter-motor current draw in mind, especially if the relay continues to chatter.

The electrician has suggested that, as a last resort, we could bypass the ECU-controlled starter circuit and operate the starter relay externally.

That would probably make the bike start, but I would rather understand exactly what is failing first. The ECU is also responsible for the starter safety logic, so I do not want to permanently bypass it unless absolutely necessary.

If the ECU starter output itself turns out to be faulty, I would first look into repairing that output stage or using an auxiliary relay arrangement before replacing the entire ECU.

So the good news is that we are no longer randomly chasing batteries, regulators, starters and relays.

The problem has now been narrowed down pretty well to the starter control circuit.

The annoying part is that it is intermittent, so the bike has to misbehave at exactly the right moment while the multimeter is connected.

I'll update again once we have measurements from the ECU/control side.

At this point I really want to know what the final culprit is, because this thing has been an electrical detective story.

Your feedback is more than welcome!