Ethanol destroying small engines

[wbeck257]

There is a noticable differnce running the S2R1k on ethonal blends and 100% gas.

Ethonal makes the bike run like shit. Too bad it is all I can get...

[ducatiz]

so if ethAnol is all you can get, how do you know 100% gas makes it run better?

i've run a variety of versions, pure gas and e10 and the difference is barely noticeable.

of course, i've always put a stabilizer in the tank with gas which i think prevents the ethanol from dissipating as fast.

[wbeck257]

Because I've riden my bike out of town before.

[RichD]

It should be remembered that 10% alcohol in the fuel leans the air/fuel mixture out about 4%.

If your bike was on the ragged edge of running OK/not OK with regular gasoline it may experience some problems.

In any case fattening up the mix however you choose should make any issues go away.

Of course you're going to get less mileage either way -but that's another issue.

[Rob Hilding]

I know this is an old thread - but saw this link on the 851/888 forum and thought it was worth posting......

http://www.fuel-testers.com/list_e10_engine_damage.html

[Bill in OKC]

I wonder just how lame/blind/feeble the gubmint testers must be to declare "no problems" using e10 - and then give e15 a pass too. 

[fasterblkduc]

I wonder just how lame/blind/feeble the gubmint testers must be to declare "no problems" using e10 - and then give e15 a pass too. 

Here in MN two years ago, the Governor was involved in one of those scam studies by taking the study results to Washington looking for more funds to increase biofuel production in our state. This was after the study was exposed for being a complete fake. The study was performed by the University of Minnesota. After some investigation, it was discovered that most of the data was made up and guess who was in charge of the study, and signed off on each of the reports that made up the study? That's right, the president of the biofuel industry...hmmm, unbiased, scientific, peer reviewed work going on here? Nope, a study that was a lie from the beginning, and our governor supported the whole thing. Gov. Tim Pawlenty...thank you. 

I will tell you from my professional experience that all biofuels are horrible. I'm in research and development in a big filter company. I work with fuel filtration and biofuels are a complete nightmare on so many levels. Your first line of defense is filtration and water separation and with biofuels you can forget about water separation happening. This junk holds onto water like you would not believe. I can also vouch for the other issues that are on that report in the link above. it is bad, bad, bad stuff. We should be demanding that it go away.

Al Gore (biggest fraud of all time), himself just spoke out against ethanol and stated that it was a mistake. The world has been lied to long enough about the danger of man made global climate change. We need to push back. Follow the $$ trails, it leads back to to the same suspects everytime. This is not going to go away unless we fight back. Biofuels are just one part of the big lie that's been forced on us to make someone truckloads of $$. Enough is enough.

[ducatiz]

Diesel too?  No issues that I knw of except a higher gel point which is easy to remedy with winter blends

[fasterblkduc]

Diesel too?  No issues that I knw of except a higher gel point which is easy to remedy with winter blends

Especially Diesel! That is actually worse. Newer engines are are tighter tolerances than ever before, and injectors are going higher pressure all the time. Some new diesel engines in trucks and construction equip. are extremely high pressure injection. This is starting to cause serious problems because you can't have any contaminant or water go through those injectors. Bulk fuel filtration/water separation is being looked at now. The idea is to filter the fuel better before it hits the trucks and equipment. One of the problems with diesel as you stated is the cold weather issues. That problem is much, much worse with biodiesel. Here in Minneapolis, we had hundreds of school buses stranded last year one day because they would not start. Of course, they are forced to run on this crap.

People that buy into these systems to refine their own biodiesel have a lot of issues. it works ok on older engines, but you cannot run that homemade junk through newer engines...no way! It's the treehuggers with the old Volvos that can pull it off, but that won't work forever because you can't keep those old cars alive indefinitely.

Diesel is much, much more vulnerable to the issues presented by biofuels. I'm telling you...the filtration industry is working hard to combat these issues. We see the effects of this garbage and strangely enough are presented with an increasing market demand to fix the issues. It's opportunity, but at the same time very frustrating to see the public lied to all in the name of making someone truckloads of $$. This can't go on forever because the product is so bad and takes so much subsidy money to keep it alive that it will fail. We just need to help push it off the shelf faster.

The Ducati fuel tank swelling issues are nothing. You should see the damage being done to these big diesel engines! They are mega expensive too so fingers crossed that this will die soon.

I'm going to close with some food for thought. We have been told for a while now that we are killing the planet, and we need to buy into these alternative energy sources. We have been scared into believing it and have allowed legislation that is not only costing us way too much taxpayer money in subsidies, but is destroying products that we purchase, making some very crafty, corrupt, deceptive people wealthy, taking us down the wrong path, and not dealing with our foreign oil dependency like we should. These people have been exposed time and again for the frauds that they are but the public has been so scared by their lies that we have not stopped them yet.
We have to realize that there is no magic bullet solutions here and that there is a tradeoff with all new sources of energy. I'm all for alternative energy sources, but we are forced into these by people with agendas. There are repercussions from jumping into these alternative sources too soon and we are definitely experiencing them. The tradeoff that I mentioned is what I want to focus on. Solar and wind and biofuels are great in theory, but they cost more than they are worth. These industries are being kept alive by your tax dollars. One could easily argue that we need to spend the $ to develop them and it's hard to argue against that, but when will we pull the plug on these if they just are not going to work? There is no magic solution and everything has a negative side. let the market drive the industry, not legislators that are killing us with spending money that we don't have to spend. I'm tired of being lied to, and my money taken. 

[ducpainter]

Home heating oil is suffering the same effects.

[fastwin]

Well said!

[ducatiz]

If filtration and water separation are the only issues with biodiesel, then that's fixable.

The school bus problem you mentioned (as well as other similar stories) is just bad planning.  Filters are cheap and easy to implement.

I like so called bio diesel not because I'm a tree hugger but because it broadens the base of our fuel sources.  Also, one of Rudolf Diesel's selling point was that it can be made from any source of oil.  He used peanut oil.

[mdriver]

If filtration and water separation are the only issues with biodiesel, then that's fixable.

 Also, one of Rudolf Diesel's selling point was that it can be made from any source of oil.  He used peanut oil.

I agree.

However, with the exception that Rudolf Diesel wasn't talking about modern diesel engines. That, and AFAIK he wasn't thinking that diesel fuel would/should be made from petroleum.

[ducatiz]

With little modification, modern diesels run bio blends just fine.  Most of the pump diesel in Europe is synthetic from bio sources and most manufacturers certify their diesels for bio blends.  VW certifies my tdi for B5 but in 3rd party testing 20% and 50% were used with no problems.  That's on unmodified engines.  With extras like 2 or 3 stage filtration and tank warmers it would be little issue ging to 100%

I am sure most can remember moving from leaded gasoline to unleaded.  Todays engines don't have any problem running unleaded.

Old ones need help.  That's the price of progress.

[Duc796canada]

I noticed in California, every gas vehicle smells like a brewery! For the gentleman using Castor oil 927, it has its own drawbacks if not used up right away, in mixed state. Does smell good though!!