need help with leaning in turns.

[misti]

wow that souds familiar to me, i've done that and you're right

Good, now stop doing it  hahahah!

Takster,
I'm not saying that is exactly what you are doing, just suggesting what might be causing that twitchiness.  The other thing that sometimes happens is when riders try to quick steer the bike right, they push on the right bar and almost at the same time they put a little counter pressure on the left bar (as if they are unconsciously trying to stop the bike from leaning over too far) that might be it as well, or you could just have a twitchy feeling bike.....

Misti

[Takster]

Good, now stop doing it  hahahah!

Takster,
I'm not saying that is exactly what you are doing, just suggesting what might be causing that twitchiness.  The other thing that sometimes happens is when riders try to quick steer the bike right, they push on the right bar and almost at the same time they put a little counter pressure on the left bar (as if they are unconsciously trying to stop the bike from leaning over too far) that might be it as well, or you could just have a twitchy feeling bike.....

Misti

I think you definately have a point, I was just trying to clarify what I wrote earlier.  It's definitely not the bike.  On the same turns at the same speed, If I death-grip the bars, I feel like I have to fight the turn, but if I do it more relaxed and calmly, the bike just locks in.  I think you're absolutely right that I'm fighting my right with my left and vice versa... I'm still working on the whole zen-like calm thing... more accurately, I'm pretty new to this, so I'm really just working on the "not crapping myself when I'm going fast" thing 

[DucofWestwood]

i have been riding for about 4 months with about 1,000 city-riding miles under my belt.  i took the MSF course and pay close attention to technique, and i would rate my turning skills as "ok".  i just wanted to thank the folks who wrote in in response to this post with a very easy-to-understand explanation of counter-steering.  i have always wondered exactly how it works (or if i was already doing it without knowing).  i read the post at work this afternoon, then just tried it on my ride home tonight, and can confirm that it seems to work like magic.  once you get the feel for that pushing _forward_ motion, everything just seems to fall into place.  thanks guys!!

[Rambler1982]

+1 on the track day I would also add some points that I found important myself

Its all about confidence

1) Tyres, if you are nervous then get the same tyres that your faster friends use, then that takes the tyre worries out of the equation, one less thing to worry about. If you have no friends and your tyres are more than a few years old, invest in some modern rubber. Do not think track tyres are better. Fast road rubber is more suitable for the beginner who is going to the track occaisionally, Michelin Pilot Powers, Pirelli Diablo, Bridgestone BT16 etc. etc. Its all about confidence.

2) Relax, I could not turn my M1000 at all, it was horrible.... then I discovered... I had a death grip on the bars. Relax your arms and shoulders completely. Use your knees and stomach muscles to support yourself. No force should go through the bars at all(except for any steering input)

3) Go on a track day, there are faster riders to challenge yourself with, there are instructers and best of all there are the same turns again and again and again, exactly what you need to build gradually and increase confidence.

4) Body position, don't worry about hanging your butt off, try to position the inside shoulder above the inside handlebar in the curve, that is you try to lean your body into the curve. I find myself natrually shifting my butt an inch or so to the inside when I do this.

5) Concentrate on being smooth, no sudden braking and don't just crack the throttle wide open, apply it progressively. No sudden changes of line, pick you line through the curve beforehand and stick to it (unless obstruction etc. appears of course).

6) Corner speed, slow in, fast out. You are never going to relax if you feel you are going too fast. Always be aware on the road, you must be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. So no insane speeds around blind bends.

6) View, look at where you want to go, that should be first the cliping point(apex) then the exit of the corner. If you do not know what an apex is then just concentrate on the exit. Do not look at a point 5 yards in front of the bike. Do however spare a few seconds to scan the road surface to avoid any oil/gravel etc.

This is the very basic stuff, the next level; I think that is best taken up with an instructor on a track.

Riding is all about a combination of techniques, on the track you will find that you are faster than some people in certain situations and slower in others. Example, somebody can out brake you into the corner, but you have a better line and pass him again on the exit of the corner.

Everyone has weak areas, depending on the way you ride, so the "just do this" kind of advice is of limited benefit unless the person advising can actually see you ride.

Wow, that was exceptionally helpful! Thanks.

[VeryMetal]

You can't expect it to feel natural straight away. Ride the bike. That's all you have to do. It does feel very stiff and awkward being on a motorcycle at first, especially a 300+ lb one. It's an issue of confidence and comfort, which comes with time. Take it easy, be careful. Easy.

Track days are wonderful and maybe an MSF course would benefit you if you haven't already done it, they'll go through all the most basic stuff about turning etc.. but.. IMO if you just spend time on the bike enjoying it (not scaring yourself by pushing it too hard) you'll see progression quite quickly. You don't need to go to motorcycle schools in order to be safe or proficient on the road, although they do help.

+1000 for anyone who mentioned Lee Parks Total Control, got my copy on the way