Ducati Monster Forum

So the mechanic (and pretty much everyone else) is starting to drop hints that perhaps it's time to consider the fact that the old girl might be needin' to be mothballed eventually.  I don't believe it myself and had high hopes of reaching 100K on this bike.  However, my repair and maintenance bills are slowly creeping up to be on par with what payments on a new bike would be (not that I'd necessarily finance.)  My 1994 Monster is going to hit 51,000 miles this weekend.  I think I'll be lucky to hit 75K without needing to drop the engine again.  Parts are getting hard to find.  It's going to reach a point of diminishing returns...

So hypothetically speaking, what kind of bike would you get to replace my bike if you were me? 

Power: 
I can manage my current bike pretty well at both slow and faster speeds.  I like lots of hp for the fair amount of freeway riding I do and can generally mange to keep it under control when riding in the twisties.  My current bike doesn't have an insane top speed--fastest I've ever gone on it was about 130 and that was plenty.  I looove the low end torque, however. I enjoy doing an occasional wheelie, so we need to have enough power for that.   ;D

Ergos: 
I have a fairly aggressive riding position on the Monster (clip-ons) and that's OK.  It's not really comfortable for longer rides, but I generally only do maybe 250-300 miles at most in a day.  I like "looking" like a biker, too, I'll admit it.  I'll sacrifice a bit of comfort for an image...and better handling.    [thumbsup] For those don't know me I'm pretty small, but not too short (5'-4") so leg reach isn't a huge issue.  I don't need to flat foot my bike, but like to be able to have a good chunk of foot down for maneuvering in parking situations. 

Maintenance:
I don't mind doing some of the more straightforward work on my bikes.  I don't find a lot of joy in doing it, but I don't hate it.  Lately I've found myself quite busy and unable to do much.  That or the problems are too complex for me to tackle on my own reasonably.  I do enjoy doing strange little modifications myself and piecing together parts that don't necessarily come out of a pre-fab kit.  I don't think that bolt-on bling is where it's at and like being able to have a canvas with which to work.  Monsters are great for that.  If possible, I'd like a bike that didn't require a lot of major services and tweaking.  I think air-cooled twins are pretty bullet proof. 

Aesthetics/Image: (yes, this is important)
I love the dry clutch.  It's a thing with me.  It's easy to maintain for one, But I like to make a racket, too.  ... but I've alienated my neighbors on one side of me because of the noise of the bike and have thought that it might be nice to have a really quiet one.  :'(

I want to stick with an Italian bike.  I like Italian and always have.  I like this group and I like the association with a country that I find breathtaking in so many ways.  Riding the bike makes me have a little bit of Italy with me all the time.  Stupid, but true.  It's a quality of life issue with me and I don't see any reason to spend my time aboard something that isn't beautiful.  :-*

Finances:  I'm not made of $$.  I've tried whoring out the hubby but he doesn't like to PIITB, so readily available funds are limited.  I'm totally open to buying used, but ya gotta have the cash in hand for that.  I would be limited to something in the 5K-8K range and would be giddy to find a fixer-upper in decent condition for $3500.  If I financed through a dealer then I could do more--a lot more--maybe closer to 12K.  I'd have a hard time justifying that and m'boy would soon want a new bike of his own.  I'd rather not buy new, but I like the sound of one of them warranty things.  Never had a vehicle with one of those on them and they sound kinda nice. 

 I have of course considered just getting another Monster.  I'm also contemplating other Ducati models.  MV is also on my wish list.   [wine]

Ideas? 

There was a amazing aprillia tuono on barf a bit ago. It was on the high end of your price range but when it comes to replacing the monster that's where I'll be looking.

Enzo only needs one kidney. ;D

Fack, dude, just get a used s2r1000.  You don't want a priller (cuz they look like a hooker's ass), and an MV isn't a twin and doesn't have a dry clutch.  I could *totally* see you on a Sport Classic, but they're wet clutch (I think all of them?) and the cool lookin' ones have a pretty aggressive riding position.  
You'd dig that 1000 engine, H.  It's got a lot more oomph than yours and is much smoother.  

If you were gonna somewhere other than the Italians, but stay naked and hoolie, a Speed Triple or Street Triple would be a great choice.   I left off the FZ1 and the like--while amazing bikes and will stomp on most Ducs--are more pedestrian than what you are looking for.

What are your thoughts on fairings?  I figure you for a non-fairing chica, considering what appeals to you--visually--in a motorcycle.


P.S.  I told you so.  

Aluminum clutch plates reduce the clutch noise considerably.

'00 or '01 M900S are very nice.
M800 or M1k.
S2R800 or S2R1k.

IMO, stay away from the O2 sensor bikes.

Derby's still got his S4R for sale, and (I think) gm2 has a Priller RSV for sale.

IMO, the Triumphs are *fugly*, but it's your ride, not mine.

Or dedicate a similar chunk of money to do a comprehensive resto/refurbishment/pimp-out of your current ride.

There is a Foggy on Craigs list right now  [thumbsup]

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/mcy/811165679.html

Wow that's a tough one. I can only see you on another Monster. But that's just my fixation. I can only tell you about my experience that you might pick something from.

I love this 848 thing I tell you. Its so damn fun its ridiculous. 2 year warranty, free ducati road side assistance, no one else's f-ups on it... Its my first brand new moto.
I kind of migrated from mountain biking (Monster riding position) to road bike racing (848 riding position). That's how I made this big switch-a-roo. Its a whole other thing I tell you. Some love it, some don't.

But see - you got that road bike thing going on, and you're in shape for the extra work out the more aggressive riding position et al gives you - so that's a real convincing argument for me to say try something a bit racier if you're thinking about it. The 848, and I imagine, many bikes that racy are a work-out much more so than the monster. They don't even attempt the versatility of the Monster, they just do one thing really well.

If you want grunty, you want 1098. 848 is smooth and way higher revving for wheelies. 1098 is hell on wheels. Both are lighter than what you're used to, and have more power than you'll know what to do with. This trip for me is like a new learning experience. I'm into that as well.

Once you go fully faired, you have to start matching colors and ironing your shirts and stuff though. It kind of goes with the look.  [cheeky]  [laugh]

How about a S4R. Sounds like Someguy will have one for sale soon  ;D

Yeah ... but then you'd have to clean it.   ;D


But seriously, I think that you're right at that sweet spot now where either you cut bait .. or just invest money into it and ride it until it stops running alltogether.  Kinda like a car.

My thoughts are that if you were to stay with the Monsters, I'd stick with the air cooled.  Although my S4RS has been pretty bullet proof so far *knocks on wood*.  When I was looking at replacing the S2R1K, I was really torn between the Speed Triple and this S4RS.

Everything I have is for sale. I wouldn't want all that much for the S4R, either.



Be stubborn and pull what I would do. Score a beater to drive daily, tear down the 944, rebuild the whole mess, have shiny, happy, mechanically sound current bike, sell the beater. You like the bike you have, right? Keep the dang thing-you know it's history, how it handles,. everything else-sink the new bike money into the old bike.

FYI, with anything that gets long in the tooth, it will go through phases where just *everything* will friggin' break and drive you batty, and then once those items get sorted out, it'll be fine for a while....then it'll do it again.

If I was buying a new Ducati (and my monster's about in the same category as yours) I'd go for a Hypermotard S. Yeah, the range sucks, but it is such a fun bike. But that's just me.

I'd have to agree that the 1000 DS motor (or the 1100 version) is just about perfect, so maybe one of those faired Sport Classics (in red, of course) might combine the fun factor and ergos you're looking for, and they do look pimp.
(http://www.motorcycleconnect.com/Ducati/2007/Sport_Classic/Sport_1000_S/Sport_1000_S_1.jpg)


Or, if the Sport Classics are hard to find used, maybe a nice 996/998. Still the most beautiful bike Ducati ever made IMO.
(http://www.mcnews.com.au/NewBikeCatalogue/2001/Ducati/2002/998/998R_RHS_700p.JPG)

The 2006 Sport 1k's had a dry clutch. I'd say try to find one and throw a leg over. They're pretty tall, but IMNSHO they're the sexiest thing on 2 wheels.

Plus the DS1000 engine is almost bulletproof and has been known to pull tree stumps from time to time.

S2R1k. Without any doubt.
Or the sport Classic as Michael suggested...

If I had to change mine, I would take the same. I am worry though that you can't plan to reach at least 80000 without big problems... It sucks...
I hope mine willl hold more than that... [roll]

Only the '06 Sport Classics had the dry clutch (ok, ok, the LE '07 Monoposto did too).   [roll]  They will definitely satisfy your need for an "image", truly sexy bikes.  Someone recently on BARF picked up a used one, less than 5K miles, upgraded to the Ohlins fork and shock, for $8500.  I'm sure there are many cheaper ones around for sale.

I looked at the S2R1K as well, before deciding on the Sport 1000.  But as Speeddog said, I have also heard that the newer bikes with the O2 sensor have had problems.  Truthfully, even the SC had the same issues.  Of course going with the Termis and the race ECU makes all the problems go away.   ;D

Hey Mostrobelle ,

How about classic GT 1000 is fun to ride and commute if you do not mind wet clutch, it 's really comfort and also easy to work on , if you feel to test ride , take mine out and see how you like it , I use her wing as pilot daily.

or, get the "other/first" sport classic ... an mh900e.  904cc engine, dry clutch, and i bet even sig. moore will agree it is one of the sexiest bikes made by anyone.

i have seen a few mh900es with low miles (mine seems to be the one with the most miles on it of all the mh900es that are in the owners club) go for $10k - $11k

the ergos are a little more aggressive than other ducatis (except the supermono).

a presto,
johnc

you can give my supersport a whirl if you want.
it's about halfway between the superbikes and the monster as far as ergos go.
as far as power it's probably very similar to your 900, some engine etc.

For the mix of city commuting and twisty fun riding that you do, the only thing that can match the Monster is a Hypermotard. But who says that you need to have one bike that does it all? You have a garage for Pete's sake! Get a cheap 2001 or 2002 748 for the fun twisties and maintain the Monster to slog across the bay. Or follow the old frigger path and buy a Vespa for your commuter  [moto]

I specifically restrained myself from saying, "get a Vespa"  [laugh] :P

First off 'Belle...  Your '94 shouldn't be put out to pasture exclusively.  You have enough garage space and she *IS* your bike.  So, don't put the old-gal down just yet.  Get another Duc and see how you feel after 4 months or so with two Ducs.

My suggestions would mimic those listed above.  I think you would absolutely LOVE the DS engine and it was available as early as 2003 so examples from that vintage would be popping up for cheaper than the flashier S2R1K bikes.  The GT1000 is a good bike for all-arounding, but that darned wet-clutch.  Well, I could fix that ya know...  Or, show you how to fix it.

No matter what, your '94 is a part of you.  Enjoy the new bike for daily stuffs and keep the '94 just cuz baby.

My two cents and opinion,
--Stu

why the restraint?

belle -

here is ebay listing for an mh900e with less than 100 miles on it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducati-Superbike-Ducati-MH900E-Mike-Hailwood-Replica-58-miles_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ150289437148QQsspagenameZRSSQ3aBQ3aSRCHQ3aUSQ3a101

here is the foggy with 1 mile on it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducati-Foggy-Monster-Foggy-2002-Ducati-Foggy-Monster-Brand-New-Never-Titled_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ370081852026QQsspagenameZRSSQ3aBQ3aSRCHQ3aUSQ3a101

a paul smart limited with 490 miles:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducati-SPORT-CLASSIC-1000-LIMITED-EDTION-2006-DUCATI-SPORT-CLASSIC-PAUL-SMART-1000-LIM-EDITION_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ320293156839QQsspagenameZRSSQ3aBQ3aSRCHQ3aUSQ3a101

a hyerptard with 880 miles:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducati-Hypermotard-1100-S-2008-Ducati-Hypermotard-1100-S_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ350093698423QQsspagenameZRSSQ3aBQ3aSRCHQ3aUSQ3a101

and a laverda 750 s with 2450 miles:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-LAVERDA-750S-1999-low-miles-like-Ducati-Brembo-brakes_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ130250706378QQsspagenameZRSSQ3aBQ3aSRCHQ3aUSQ3a101

I wouldn't.  ;)

hypermotard... because tards are fun.  really fun.

You already had a GTV, so steer clear of the Laverda! Two words: Italian electrical.

Whoa... I have my work cut out for me.  I guess there are worse things to have to do than shopping for a new-to-me bike. 

I'm not in a rush to do this.  I'm hoping for a couple of years on this bike, but my bike tends to surprise me with large, long-term, expensive fixes.  It's not enough to warrant getting a new bike just yet.  I've roughly priced out financing versus what I'm paying per year in repairs and it's still cheaper to keep the bike for now.  However, if the transmission decides to up and die--which I'm told could happen any day or it could go for another 50K-- then I'll be ready to throw in the towel.  When something like that happens, I want to have test ridden and priced all candidates on my list.  So it looks like I better get crackin'!  (Enzo is going to hate every minute of new bike shopping, too.  [laugh])

I LOVE this thread. ;D

Fine yerself a binned S4R or some such and buy it-we'll find a way to fit the new motor in there when yours dies.

He makes a very good point, although I'd look for an S2 instead of the S4...the cylinder heads are significantly wider on the 4V's. Depending on the year of the donor bike, it may be as simple as drilling the motor mount tabs out, from 10mm to 12mm, to accept the donor's mounting pins. Otherwise it's a fairly straight forward swap.

Yes, there will be some minor square peg in round hole issues, but nothing that can't be dealt with.  I'm helping one of the SFFD machinists restore his 851, so if we need things machined to make a motor swap work, he can do it. [thumbsup]

Putting a bike together is a bad idea for 'belle's needs.  'belle needs a reliable commuter, not a project.  And while she's interested in wrenching, she doesn't spend a lot of time doing it or have a lot of time for it.  So while it's an interesting project and cool to talk about, it's not really a viable alternative.

'belle, I think you're right to start planning for a new bike now.  But you should just commit to getting a new bike in a year or two whether or not your monster is running.  If the monster blows up, you can part it out.  If not, you can sell it or keep it around (you won't regret it).  Nevertheless, you need a new bike in the near future.

I'd definitely go for the new bike, without a doubt. But scoring a donor lump for the 'ol gal would be a fun way to breathe new life into it.

Saw this on BARF.  Here's a brand new monster that won't break the bank:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05280723000P

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Can't believe TCK hasn't said it yet, but...

Turbo 'Busa ;D

But seriously: how can you beat a Monster? An S4R is a great bike, and you're welcome to try mine out when I get it back on the road. But it's very punchy, so definitely try before you buy.

What he said.  I don't pretend to be a mechanic, and although I might take on a few more ambitious maintenance items from time to time, a full rebuild is beyond my skills (and motivation.)

So has anyone here got any thoughts on the Aprilia Shiver? Someone mentioned it to me.  It's not giving me that warm n tingly feeling inside when I look at it.

Well I just married Enzo...guess it's pretty apparent that I have fairly low standards.   [laugh] 


I would seriously go to the grocery store on that.   [laugh]

Well the Aprilia Shiver makes me Shiver... Not in a good way though.

Hey lets both get Nightsters together  [moto]

I don't particularly like it.  And I have no idea why folks have such a woody for it.

At last I knew...my previous roommate was a mechanic at Scuderia... in it's present emissions configuration, the Shiver does not meet U.S. EPA regulations, so for the time being it's unavailable in the states.

Also, it's the first production year of Aprilia's new motor. Add to that the recent financial troubles that they have just come through.... I don't blame you for not having a warm 'n IZ_ about it.

Besides, it looks like an overgrown Kawi anyway. [cheeky]

That's awesome.  [thumbsup] If he's willing, can you post about it?
Are you having trouble with any parts? I know in the thankfully rare circumstances I need them they're not always easy to get.

Um, no.   [cheeky]

Well, they are on the showroom floor at Moto-Meccanica. So I would say they are available. That said, BLEH.  [puke] I'd pass. Besides, it's a straight up and down riding style, I think she would hate it. Since she doesn't mind the racer-ish ergos, I'd lean toward the Paul Smart or the Mike Hailwood. But I sure do love my Monster and I would have a hard time right now switching to something else. If she were gonna go the route of keeping the old gal and gettin another new bike to use while gettin around to fixin it, I like the Truimph Thruxton with the Arrow 2-1 on it!  [thumbsup]

There have been some wise words here about new bikes. When your time becomes more valuable than the roll off the lot depreciation, then you get a new bike. Besides Ducati's are pretty good at keeping there value.

This is the other thing:

That is pretty huge I think. This is an intimate relationship. If you married for money, and would get a particular puppy because it was the practical one, get a Honda scooter.  But I don't think that's you.

Go sit on a lot of bikes. Sit on ones that you think you wouldn't consider and are way out of you $ [bacon] $ range just to see what you like. Something will go "DING!"  and you'll know what you want.  We're just gabbing blindly here. Your butt is going to tell you more than we will ever.

You have our permission to get what ever you like.








then we'll give you hell for it.  [laugh]

 [laugh] Very true that someone will give you crap no matter what  you get ;)

I just my monster makes it another 25k before throwing in the towel, since I'm not ready to try and pay for a new bike.  (mine has only 34k on it now :))

Get a Hypertard

Your commute is over some seriously crap roads
The higher up riding position is great for city riding
The power is more than there
Dry clutch
Great looking

My only concern is will the stubby little twigs you call legs reach the ground?  ;D

Italian, requires maintaince, what more do you need? Yes i know....It can be lowered if needed.


(http://thewongshow.smugmug.com/photos/150494699-L-1.jpg)

(http://www.supermotojunkie.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22168&stc=1&d=1170727268)

I know that height is traditionally a woman's concern, but that isn't a huge deal for me.  I just don't see myself as a motard girl.  A Hypermotard girl, very possibly, but not a motard-motard girl... That and I would have a hard time getting over the fact that Husqvarna makes chainsaws.  I don't want to ride a redneck chainsaw.  It's the same thing with a Honda--I think "lawnmower" and for Yamaha pianos are always in the back of my mind.  I'm easily distracted...  [laugh]

OK, I'm just gonna throw this out there, but what about a beater SV for your commute and save the old girl for weekends in Marin? In the plus column: you can park it on the street without worry, and if some dickhead does steal it, you won't be all that sad. Plus they're cheap and pretty low maintenance I think.

In the minus column, yeah, they're ugly.


I had a kind of epiphany over the weekend, thinking about this thread and new bikes. I was mulling over all these choices as I put the wheels with new rubber back on my Monster. So many possibilities, so much shiny machinery. And then I got out onto the road, taking it easy at first to scrub in the tires, gradually picking up some pace, and somewhere, in the middle of the ride, I realize that I'm already on my perfect bike. I know every lump in the powerband, the exact point to downshift and give it gas through each corner. It all fits beautifully, joining me and the road in a way that just lets me be happy without really trying, or even thinking about how to operate the bike.

Can you tell? I love my bike.

(oh, and new tires are great too!)

Well put MM, well put.

If I could keep this particular bike forever I would...but that's not reasonable.  I know we're Ducati people and we're all about soul and blah, blah, blah, but it really is just a machine and it can be replaced with something a lot better.  As for having an ugly commuter--well--it's not a bad idea, but it's a quality of life issue.  I just don't want to spend my time on an SV for an hour a day. 

So my list so far...

Used 916
Used 748
New 848
New 1098 (yeah, that's right, I said it...)
Another Monster something or other
Hypermotard
Brutale (maybe...)
more to come...

These are all pretty big bikes.  I wonder if my insurance covers test rides???  [cheeky]

Let me go to the other extreme.  H, get the 916.  It's 2 wheeled art (I know that shit appeals to you).  You know that you'd rather be riding that than something more powerful, more refined, more comfortable, more reliable and more up-to-date.  When it becomes fussy and pregnant dogy and annoying, sell it (a year or two or three years down the road) and get something more rational.  But you shouldn't go through life not having owned a 916.  Red, of course.  Now's your chance.  Do it.   [evil]   [moto]

I know where you can get a nice reliable 749

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=9069.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=9069.0)

A 916 or 748 *only* if they've been well cared for.
Unloved examples are going to be a headache until they're sorted out.

848 is good for a modern weapon, but IMO a 1098 is just overkill.

We've gone over the Monsters...

I just can't see you on *any* 'tard.

Brutale? They're *big*, and, well, an inline-4. Bleh.

the only bike that does it all:  sporty, beautiful, low maintenance, 2 valve, air cooled, DS1000, no exactly Ducati...

Bimota DB5

This just in from Husqvarna's website.

I didn't know they started that long ago.

Husqvarna, which is a Swedish company, was founded in 1689. At that time, we produced what were probably the finest muskets of the day. And it was then that we laid the foundation for the engineering expertise that has since helped us develop some of the world’s best products in areas such as hunting weapons, bicycles, motorcycles, kitchen appliances, sewing machines and now outdoor products.

Sorce: http://www.usa.husqvarna.com/company_history.aspx

Check out the logo; the lower circle is a barel, the 'w' shape on top are the front and rear sights.  FYI, Husky firearms are well made, accurate and demand high prices on the used market... not that I'd know or anything.

Husky's like GM or Piaggio; they make all kinds of stuff - just not bikes anymore since they sold that off a decade(s?) ago.  Anyway, a supermoto's too tall, and too focused for a sem-urban / city via freeway commute.

Supermoto's are like dating strippers; When it's good it's great but when it's bad it ends, ultimately, in sudden violence and at huge expense.

Used, low milage versions are low hanging fruit in these parts.

Really? I've only sat on one and I felt the tank was shorter and wasn't as hard on the back. There is a regular up at the wall that is a pretty short guy and he specifically bought the Brutale over the Monster because of this shorter tank...

I think you should just get a RC8 then you could just ride around signing "King of the Road."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhApYxZisBI

Surprised the 848 is on your list, wet clutch and all.  Unless you do the following dry clutch conversion: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhYnAeKiTq4

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] Yes, it's a re-post, but hilarious. 

Seriously though...

You should consider finding a used Paul Smart.  It is sexy, and rare, and therefore, a bike worth holding on to a long time, much like the MH900e mentioned earleir in this thread.  Take a look at the asymmetrical rear swingarm alone and you'll consider this bike a piece of art.

Two words: RETARDED FUN!!! [evil] ;D [thumbsup] [thumbsup] [leo] :'( [laugh] [laugh]

No kidding?  I've seen the one that Scuderia has on ebay, but there are others?

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=10428.0

you need this.... not a bike.


it has a sink in it, so you can do the dishes in it.

Enzo will love you for it.





 8)

 [laugh]


Keep the monster and get a supermotard of some sort. (Warren will teach you how to wheelie one)

What about a Guzzi like this one?

(http://i33.tinypic.com/zvq59c.jpg)

It's probably not the thing for you because your looking for something new, but I wouldn't mind having that brutish looking thing parked next to my monster.
I bet it sounds good too.

Thats Sexy.... And the bike ain't to bad either  ;D

I really like that...a truly vintage bike isn't appropriate.  Crap, I already have that.   [laugh]  But a Guzzi...not bad.  Do they make a decent one?

Add Guzzi to the list and cross off the 916.  I also want to look into the Paul Smart.  That might be the strongest candidate yet.  I like the look of it.  How does it ride though.  I need to find out for myself but am interested in what other owners think of it.  You don't see many of them--why is that?

Drop Kat Foster @ MotoCorsa, in Portland, a line. She's got one of the PS1000LE's and loves it! She uses it as her daily beast, and hasn't had a bad thing to say about it...other than having to wait for one initially.

You're welcome to try my Sport 1000.  The PS is essentially the same but with one huge difference.  The PS comes with the Ohlins suspension, which is infinitely better than the cheap suspension that came standard on the Sport.  My next upgrade is to go to Aftershocks and see what magic they can do for me.

Be forewarned, the Sport is not a comfortable bike to ride.  It's a true torture rack.  And the PS is supposedly even more uncomfortable!  But you are young, you might like it.   [laugh]


You won't find many of them around because it was a limited run, 2000 in total, worldwide.  I think only half of which went to North America.  And I bet many are being saved for some perceived collectors value and hardly ridden.

There was one at Moto-Meccanica, in black tho. Lat time I checked...

Paolo, who worked for Ducati, had a the Sport Classic (the Paul Smart, sans fairing) when he was out here. He said it was very fast, but they put heavy wheels on them (spokes) for the look.
Paul Smart
1000cc, 92 Horses,  398 LBS

There are some pretty tight Moto Guzzi out there, but some are on the XXL side.
(http://static.blogo.it/motoblog/mrcape_guzzi1200.jpg)
from http://www.motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/2008_bikes/moto_guzzi_breva_v_1200.php

"There can be no doubt that the Breva V1200 is exactly what puts Moto Guzzi at the top of the league in terms of riding pleasure."

TECHNICAL DATA

>>>>>>>>>>>>TRANSLATION : 1200 cc, 88 Horses, 520 LBS(dry) , 6 gallon tank.

Engine - Four-stroke V 90 twin
Cooling - Air cooled
Capacity - 1,151 cc
Bore and stroke - 95 x 81.2 mm
Compression ratio - 9.8 : 1
Timing - 2 valves per cylinder commanded by light alloy cam acting on rocker arm and mechanical tappets
Intake valve opening - 24 ° before upper TDC.
Intake valve closing - 52 ° after lower TDC.
Exhaust valve opening - 54 ° before lower TDC.
Exhaust valve closing - 22 ° after upper TDC.
Maximum power output - Over 66 kW (95 CV) at 7,500 rpm
Max Torque - Over 100 Nm at 5,800 rpm
Fuel supply/ignition - Multipoint sequential electronic injection, Magneti Marelli IAW 5A phased, alfa-n system; 2 Ø 45 mm throttle bodies with Weber IWP 162 injectors, Lambda probe and twin spark plugs.
Starter - Electric
Spark plugs - Inner NGK PMR8B (Long Life). Outer NGK BPR6ES
Exhaust system - Stainless steel two-into-one 3 way catalysed with Lambda probe and height adjustable silencer.
Homologation - Euro 3

Transmission
Gearbox - 6 speed – constantly engaged cogs with integrated flexible couplings. 1st 17/38 = 1 : 2.235: 2nd 20/34 = 1 : 1.7: 3rd 23/31 = 1 : 1.348: 4th 26/29 = 1 : 1.115: 5th 31/30 = 1 : 0.968: Gear ratios: 6th 29/25 = 1 : 0.862
Lubrication - Forced lubrication with lobe pump and pressure regulator
Primary drive - Helicoidal gears, ratio 24/35 = 1 : 1.458
Final drive - Shaft drive, ratio 12/44 = 1 : 3.667
Clutch - Dry mechanically operated twin plate

Chassis
Frame - Steel tubing
Wheelbase - 1,495 mm
Rake - 120 mm
Steering angle - 25.50°
Front suspension - Marzocchi Ø 45 mm adjustable front forks
Front wheel travel - 120 mm
Rear suspension - Single swingarm with progressive action – single rebound adjustable shock absorber with easy to operate pre-load setting knob
Rear wheel travel - 140 mm
Front brakes - Twin floating 320 mm stainless steel discs, floating Brembo calipers with 4 opposed pistons.
Rear brakes - Single 282 mm fixed stainless steel disc, floating Brembo caliper with 2 parallel pistons.
Wheels - Three-spoked aluminium alloy
Front wheel - 3.50” x 17”
Rear wheel - 5.50” x 17”
Front tyre - 120/70 ZR 17 M/C (59W) TL Roadtec Z6
Rear tyre - 180/55 ZR 17 M/C (73W) TL Roadtec Z6

Electrics
Voltage - 12 V
Battery - 12 V – 18 Ah
Alternator - 12 V - 350 W

Dimensions
Length - 2,195 mm
Width - 870 mm
Height - 1,125 mm
Saddle height - 800 mm
Minimum ground clearance - 185 mm
Dry weight - 236 kg
Fuel tank capacity - 23 litres
Reserve - 4 litres

New Guzzis: Good quality, damn near bullet proof motors, stupid simple services, all around good bikes. Might be a tad large.

Old Guzzis: see also: Alfa GTV. [laugh] Be ready to constantly tinker with something at all times. :P

You can see new Guzzis at Moto Mecannica.

I ride with a guy that has a Paul Smart. Its a real nice looking bike with real nice looking suspension. he complains that everytime he hits a bump the throttle moves under his hand and its touchy. I'll get him to let me ride it for a bit and see if this is true.

Pfffft-reliability is overrated. Knowing it'll start every time? Where's the adventure in that?

Go out and buy say, four additional bikes. Ancient beaters. Get an old BMW, a coupla Japanese bikes, and mebbe a triumph. Round out that stable. Do no work to them-just long as they start, buy them. They should be older than you. Spend no more than say, $1500, Total. Ride a different one each day-one of them is bound to start.

See how far you make it.

Sounds like he needs to relax his grip. I bet he's got complaints about his forearms and shoulders hurting too.


Actually, that's not a bad idea at all! I sold my '89 R100GS with just under 500K on the motor, and it ran like a champ! Old "airheads" are like the B-17's of the motorcycle world... they're not the prettiest, or the fastest ones out there, but they will always keep going!! And they're just plain classy! [thumbsup] And most important, they are stupid proof to maintain!! If you can make a fresh cup of coffee, and change a flat bicycle tire, you can service an old beemer yourself!

So could 'Belle still take it to you?  :P

Probably would. [cheeky]

What about this? http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/825250900.html

Hmmm ... since you're talking BMWs, how about this:

(http://www.gatewaybmw.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/bmw_hp2_sport3.jpg)

WAY over budget. As in, three times as much.

Just saw the picture while surfing. No idea on price.

No BMW's... just, no. 

Yeah, you'd have to buy a bunch of AeroStich gear and start monitoring how fast your brake pads are wearing every week.  ;D

Might as well get an RC8 :)

(http://s2.bikewalls.com/pictures/KTM_RC8_White_2008_01_1280x960.jpg)

or not.   [puke]

I love it :) Gotta love that white too

Amen. I used to own an R90/6 and even a mechanical idiot like me could work on it. (Setting valve clearances is a snap when the heads stick straight out at you!!) Plus you get to do things like adjust points and timing. And the stock seat is also comfortable.

The brakes were crap though. I guess you can't have everything.  ;D


She's already got the 'stich. So it's practically a done deal.

That's just a design feature... they were still working on the ABS idea back then. What you've got is two distinct types of brakes: A slowing brake, and a skidding brake! Neither one really stop ya! [laugh] [laugh]

Ah, but those flat twins sound so nice! Timeless and classy!

i was in Munroe yesterday and they have a used Guzzi for sale. It did look a little on the heavy side.

Normally company's are careful to preserve the pure bloodlines of their bikes, but every so often a few fertile examples escape from their breeding pens. They run off into the wild, often traveling great distances in order to mate in secret.

However, the companies send out special teams to collect these bastard progeny. They are then carefully whisked away to a secluded location in Italy, far from prying eyes, where they are allowed to mature before being neutered and released to the unsuspecting public.

In short: Guzzi's are what happen when BMWs and Harleys interbreed.



Back on topic: 'Belle should get a Hypermotard.

Actually I think she should just go sit on every dang bike she can find and buy whatever she can remember liking after two weeks.


Dismissing anything just because they may be too ugly or slow or what not is silliness.

Not always true, especially for artistic types that have strong emotions about design, passion, and image.  For them, if practicality was the main focus, we'd simply buy a Honda.   [laugh]

I like, I like

Wait till December if you can hold out that long and go to the Cycle World International Motorcycle show in San Mateo.  [thumbsup]

I am like a Kid in a Candy Store when I go  ;D

just say "nine"

why stop at suggesting the mundane, oh-so ordinary bikes?  why not temp belle with any one of the following molto bene bikes?

(http://www.transportspecs.com/images/old/dodge_tomahawk.jpg)

(http://www.dreamgate.ne.jp/NSR/pics/giant01.jpg)

(http://static.zooomr.com/images/2408681_9a69563620_b.jpg)

or:
(http://www.lolpictures.com/pictures/bigmotorcycle.jpg)

(http://www.myunusual.com/Pix/Things%20pix/Unusual%20Mailboxes/BIG%20motorcycle%20mailbox.jpg)

(http://thekneeslider.com/images/radialmotorcycle.jpg)

or:
(http://www.girlsquadx.com/life/burning/2000/trike.jpeg)

(http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/prototype-spy-concept/Plymouth-1934-Motorcycle.jpg)

(http://zo-d.com/blog/archives/images/second-ugliest-motorcycle-build-your-own.jpg)

or:
(http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_apr2007/RoundBike.jpg)

(http://cache.jalopnik.com/cars/images/eddir_paul_chopper_one.jpg)

(http://www.richmondlabs.com/Automotive/RichmondV8/v8norstr.jpg)

or:
(http://zo-d.com/blog/images/purple-v8-build-your-own-motorcycle.jpg)

(http://www.funny-potato.com/images/motos/big-motorcycle.jpg)

(http://www.helmethairblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/worlds-largest-motorcycle.jpg)

or my favs:

(http://www.plaidstallions.com/evel/ektoys.jpg)

(http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Ramp/2716/bicycle.jpg)

(http://www.itsalreadysigned4u.com/shop/media/images/product_detail/frt-08phkni215.jpg)

Haha

That motocycle with a Blower in the guys face.

How does he ride it LOL

How about this Rat bike

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/829535624.html

One down, three more to go.

If we are talking about odd and unusual, here's another example:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g110/slower_than/skeleton-bike-14.jpg)

All I gotta say is that we went and looked at bikes today, and 'belle got all giggly and weak-kneed at a well-detailed 916 at Hattar.  Then again, so did I.  And I'm pretty sure Enzo started playing out bad porn fantasies in his head when his lady climbed aboard that red beast.

To sum up:  pretty much the usual reaction to a 916.   [thumbsup]

(http://hattarmoto.com/images/showroom/preowned/5large.jpg)

Spidey's right...I had never really noticed or cared about the 916 until I took a good look at and sat on one.  It was teh hawtness and it felt good.  Not practical really... but that's not really the deciding factor.  The engine size sounds about right.  The position isn't all that aggressive.  I like it better than the 848 but was told that the 848 is really the better deal for what one gets.  The 848 is still on the list.  The 1098 is off.  It's a better bike than the 848, but it looks pretty much the same and I don't want/need that much hp.  A Hypermotard is still on the list, but I don't like the look.  A Bimota is still on the list.  An MV is still on the list.  A 748 is still on the list.  A Monster is still on the list. 

Going to do some research on 916 to find out what I could be in for.  They're 4-valvers, so doing 6K maintenance will be A) costly or B) time-consuming. The price is about right--7-8K for a good used one with low miles and an intact title.  It doesn't have a passenger seat--that kinda sucks.  I like giving rides to m'boy and others.   :'(  Lay it on me guys...what's the ugly truth with these bikes?

 

Ask Jamie what he thought of doing the valves on my 4-valver over his 2.


They suck.

I'll tell you in the morning. See you guys on the ride.

Give Jim at Nichols a call.  He will give you the straight scoop on all of the choices you are considering.  He knows which ones were proned to stall, which ones had the dreaded flaking rocker arms, and so forth.  I know he talked me out of two used bikes I was considering (a 748 and a 749).

You can get a biposto 916 if you really want a passenger seat that's even less practical than a Monster's.

Pretty much any 4-valver can have flaking rockers.
748's tend to have it more, likely due to being run at higher rpm than the larger bikes.
The valve clearance job is bigger with the 4-valver, as there's twice as many of everything to mess with, and the parts are smaller and the access is more difficult.

one mo to consider belle ...

(http://www.ecoshopper.net/wp-content/img/transport/2008/05/uno_one_wheel_motorcycle.jpg)

not true amico ... i forget the years/months of production that ducati used the rocker arm supplier that had the issues with the chrome flaking ... but i do know that the first year 916 did not have any flaking rocker arm issues.

on the model years that DID have these flaky rocker arm issues, replacing said rocker arms with megacycle rocker arms is the ticket.

perhaps someone who knows which model years are the ones to watch out for can post up?

What about something really special... Voxan?
(http://www.voxan.com/voxan/images/vue%20avant%20gauche.jpg)

Only problem is people at the DMV don't read French... Ain't gonna be easy to register this one... [bang]

Wow, 8 pages on what bike to get...impressive.

I vote for a Paul Smart or an '06 Sport 1000 (dry clutch, cooler swingarm than later years).  Both super cool.

If I make it out to a ride again, you are welcome to ride my '03 M1000 if you'd like to try out the DS motor.  That was before the O2 sensor, so an '03 M1000 might be a good option if you want a "classic" monster.  It's great.

I know from experience that '99 had flaking rockers.  And a cracked coolant tank (no big deal).  And a destroyed SSS eccentric (a big deal - but preventable, so inspect for it).  And electrical flakiness.  But you should know what to look for going in, which is key.  I'd probably go for the 848 myself.

Oh, an MV Agusta F4 would be on my list.

Post Script: Neither the Paul Smart nor the 2006 Sport 1000 have an O2 sensor.

The only "down-side" is the lack of a passenger seat.

I was giving Enzo some insight on the 916 series this morning. Nothing super horrible...just little things. If you want, you're welcome to give me a call and I can give you all of the pros and cons.

There are some ongoing service recall campaigns for the series...mainly for the rear eccentric and axle. You can have any dealer run the VIN against DNA's database and it will show what service campaigns are open the bike. I know that the rear drive issues were a safety recall campaign, and are covered by Ducati. regardless of what you get, it's worth having them run the VIN and make sure all the bases were covered.

ah france ... land of pepe le peu:

(http://thevinylvillage.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/21479bplooney-tunes-pepe-le-pew-posters.jpg)

Actually, I'm not sure if that is true.  Because the Termi/Race ECU kit for the PS and S1000 allows you to bypass the O2 altogether.

Then please allow me to rephrase: my 2006 S1000 has no O2 sensor.

Hahaha... That is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO a new joke... [coffee] [roll]

I guess it's Monday.  Geez folks lighten up.  A lot of y'all are taking everything a bit too seriously.  It's the internet...half of what we do here is mock one another and tell each other how wrong we are.  It's the nature of the beast.  [laugh]

Can we talk down to women too?  :-*


So are you still lusting over the 916? Or thinking about something a bit newer and fresher? I just happen to read about a couple people on BARF who said their GF's were 5'-4" and the Brutale fit them perfectly and they really loved the bike.

Maybe you'd be interested in my Monster, the thought has crossed my mind to get something a bit more touring oriented. But it's a wet clutch though.

no we don't take things too seriously ... and stop patronizing us  ;D  i have a mock turtleneck soup recipe [thumbsup]

I found it!  ;D


http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/828677757.html

thank god it is only one of a kind ... the world is not ready for more than one of those. [puke]

I am sure Duck-Stew can fix that right up =)

It's not one of his?

I'm sorry, but you're just plain wrong about that 'belle  [evil] [laugh]


And speaking of wrong...


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/Flamsterette_X/Smileys/rollbarf1.gif)

Best. Smiley. Ever.

Stu called me, and said he forgot to tell you that someone broke into the cylinder head shop, and stole your heads.
Curious, that's *all* they stole.
Odd, isn't it?
















 ;D

Ain't for my bike.  ;D


Though if you see an ad nearby down there looking for the rest of a 620 engine, it's for sale, cheap  ;)

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/833389426.html

Selling because he just baught[sic] a house.

Maybe it's just me, but ads with eggregious spelling make me wonder how well maintained can a bike be if it was owned by a moron.

(now hopefully I've scared everyone else away. MWahahahahah!)
 

More worrisome is he misspelled Desmoquattro.  [roll]

Best of all, it's a wonderful shade of orange.  ;D

my favorite moto ad misspelling has to be:

R6, blah blah blah, two bruders exhaust.

Saw this on CL today:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/mcy/837033702.html

I think this might be more up 'Belle's alley...

(http://www.bianchiducati.com/images/Ducati-Bikes-900XR.jpg)

Well, except for the garish silver bar tape! [puke] [laugh] [laugh]

Throw some BST's on it and I'd totally rock that.

Is she going to take it off any sweet jumps? 

With a seat like that, I hope not.

Yeah, I was looking at that too.  I don't think I'd be able to bear children after spending 30 minutes on that torture rack of a seat...

So, as y'all can probably tell I'm taking my sweet time about looking at bikes.  Going to a trackday this weekend and probably won't make it out to any shops.  And yes, I'm still lusting after a 916 or 748.  I might be able to take a little cruise on an 848 pretty soon and am interested to see what "modern" and "new" feel like.   ;D

Just a bump:

Look what's for sale on eBay

http://tinyurl.com/4z6jec

(It'll make me & Spidey jealous)

Oh just $15K?   [laugh]  Yeah, I'll take two!   [cheeky]  So as cool as that is, it's too nice for me.  I need something that can be tipped over once in a while and something that I can put my own brand of stink on.  I don't want to purchase someone else's vision...no matter how cool it is.  It's just not me. 

That said, I'm wrestling with the idea of being a Hypermotard girl.  They're stupid looking... but they look like fun.  And I still love the 916. 

I still like mine a lot more.  That said, I wouldn't mind both in my garage.  My neighbors would f'n hate that exhaust though.  I started up that bike outside my house and the cat from 3 doors down literally folded himself into a fortune cookie.  It weren't purty, lemme tell ya.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/mcy/851615286.html
Not to bad, it's a shame about the colour.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcy/852028999.html
Not a bad price but it appears to have sat for a few years. if I had the 6k it would be in my garage.

am I helping you  ;D

Buy this before I sell my s2r and do it myself.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motorcycles___2007-Ducati-Monster-S4RS-S4R_W0QQitemZ160284976570QQddnZMotorcyclesQQddiZ2283QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160284976570&_trkparms=72%3A727|39%3A1|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

Not being to mechanically inclined I wonder if the Bike runs like crap with just the Cat and no Pipes.

That bike looks SOO badass

yessss....  [evil]

I'm curious about the valves.  So is this thing a 4-valver?  Enzo and I just did both of our bikes this weekend.  It's getting pretty easy I tell ya.  I'm wondering if I could do the valves on a 4.  Would it be so bad?  If I could that would be a lot more realistic for me.  I have a hard time justifying the maintenance costs on an aging Italian bike if the shop has to do it every time. 

916"s"????????????????
I think the "S" or "S" came in the later years (for 996 or 998 models, although in the first years of the 996, there was a 996 SPS) To confirm but to me the 916 is only available as "stock" or "SPS"... There's no 916s... So...

It's the same basic drill. But...
There are twice as many to do.
The parts are smaller.
The access is no where near as good, even after you take off a whole bunch more stuff.
You need to pull the cams to inspect the rockers, and also to change the closers.
Pulling the opener rockers by removing the shafts is pretty much mandatory as well.

It's a little bit more difficult, but a good bit more work.

Enzo thinks that girls should do valve adjustments.  Smaller hands.  Better attention to detail.  Wait a minute...  [laugh]

Wow--that does sound a lot harder.  I always forget what cams are.  And shafts?  I'll look it up.  I have one of those exploded isometrics of an engine lying around here somewhere. 

I'm gonna see if Desmoto will let me watch them do a 4-valve check one of these days.  I want to see for myself.  It can't be *that* bad. 

Download a parts catalogue from ducati.com for one of the DesmoQuattros, that'll help.

Watching someone do a 4-valver will help a lot more.

Small hands are a big bonus.
I'd hire a spider monkey to help me at the shop, but they'd frighten off most of my customers.  [laugh]

My bosses dad had a spider monkey but it kept bitting the mail man so they had to get rid of it.

There's a joke in there somewhere...

Riding over to Desmoto for the umpteenth time for a lingering starter-turned-possible-carb issue, my clutch goes out.  I think I've had it, guys.  I can't justify the costs to my wallet and emotional well-being of repairing this thing anymore.  I haven't completely given up.  Desmoto often comes up with quick, easy and inexpensive fixes and that's part of the reason I keep going back and have had this bike for as long as I have but...

I'd like to think that I'm not brand-loyal, but I really love Italian stuff and I like Ducatis.  I believe that I will stick with a Monster, but am going to try out a Hyper just to rule it out.  As much as I'd like a change just for fun, the Monster still works very well for me.  I've heard excellent things about the 696 and am going to give it a test ride at Ace.  It has about the same amount of hp and torque that I currently have on my bike and it weighs less.  I keep thinking that I need a big motor for the type of riding I do, so I'm going to see what a 1000 or 1100 feels like too, but doubt I'll need all that.  I will miss the clutch, but then again, perhaps my neighbors will start talking to me again if I get rid of the noisy bugger.   

I need to see what kind of loan I can get at the bank versus the financing deal I might be able to make at a shop.  "Warranty" is sounding really, really, really nice right now, but I could save a bunch by buying used.  Any thoughts on this bike?   
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=10681.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=10681.0)

Yeah.  Buy it.  How much more set-up do you want a bike to be?  The only downside that I can see are that it doesn't look like it has pasenger pegs (you can get those fabbed up pretty easy), there aren't Cyclecat replacement parts for the rearsets if you crash, and it doesn't have clip-ons.  But it's got a damper, a Penske rear and Ohlins valving in the front?!?  Noice. 

Remember that cost of doing suspension no matter what bike you get.  You're 40-50 lbs off the stock settings. 

Whats your plans for the old bike if you decide to change?

It's sweet.  Too bad it's not local (buying a bike unseen? Mmmm....)
Figure in $500/$700 for freight and setting up to your feather-like mass.

Bummer about moving on.  It's like putting your dog down. 
Well maybe your dog.   I hated my dog, that was easy.

I'll make you a fantastic deal on an S4R.  ;)

I'll probably take some bits off of it for the new bike and pirate a few more for Enzo's bike, and then I'll part the rest out. 

Most bikes being sold used won't let you do a test ride anyways, so I'm not really missing out on anything but a close-up at the cosmetics, and I don't care about them.  It's a Ducati, so it's a great start in the looks department.  As long as he's hand-warmed the oil before he puts it in every 1,000 miles and cleaned it with a Q-tip once a week, I'm a happy girl.   

I need to figure that I'm going to spend about $1K more for suspension and shipping total.     


I'm not happy about having to buy a new bike.  I like my bike and would continue to ride it indefinitely.  The visits to see Scott at Desmoto are the only bummer.  I like the guy, but not that much.  I've dated people that I've seen less of.   

Negative.  I don't need my ass catching on fire on top of everything else. 

if you don't mind i would like to put a tentative dibbs on the 944 kit you have installed. thank you.

  I"m pretty sure that everyone here would agree that the Suzuki Bergman is the bike for you. Well at least Adrian and Michael Moore would. It's cool looking, has only one gear and has a really big seat. Perfect. It's my choice for driving from my house to the harbor in Kona. You don't need to wear a helmet or shoes either. Just filp flops and a plastic Jesus on the dash. Perfect.

                                                                                                                                              FE

Buy it.

FastElvis recommends:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3126/3123332149_50be7bd7fd.jpg?v=0)

That's a nice bike.

Slight threadjack: Can you buy a bike but not register or license it upon delivery because you wanna store it or display it for a while? And if you do delay its licensing, does it become a hassle or boost the cost at the licensing office down the road after this time in storage? Also, does this bring up any issues with insuring the thing?

Enquiring minds wanna know!

It might be up for grabs.  My bike isn't dead yet, so you gotta wait for that.  And then my hubby is also eyeing the 944, but that's not a sure thing either.  I can vouch for it being one of the very best mods ever done to a motorcycle evarrrrr....  [thumbsup]


I haven't had a pedicure in months and I'm an atheist so I think that the Bergman is not going to work out.   [laugh]

I don't know if there's a time issue on registering a bike, but I believe that there's a mileage cut-off.  Something about 7,000 miles comes to mind.  We registered Enzo's out-of-state bike and it was a cake-walk.  He had to give the CHP officer a reach-around, but he wouldda done that regardless.   ;D

OK sportsfans...

Went for two demo rides today.  696 and 848 were on my list. 

I walked into the shop convinced that a Monster is for me and was very excited about trying out a 696.  Haven't heard anything but positive feedback on it, noticed a lot of the gals here on the board own 695's and at least a half a dozen people have said that the 696 is probably the best Monster to come out in a while.  I decided to also try out an 848 just because it's effing sex on wheels and I'm realistic enough to know that a 1098 is just crazy.  An 848 is close enough. 

Sat on both bikes on the showroom floor.  696 felt pretty good.  848 was uncomfortable.  The 1098 actually felt better than the 848.  I got geared up and headed out for a short loop of freeway, city and twisties.  Here are my initial impressions...

696

The 696 instantly felt "wrong."  I was way over the tank and felt squished on top and that my legs were too stretched out.  I had a hard time controlling the bike with my lower body.  I needed the pegs to be higher up.  I struggled to keep my weight off the bars for some reason and it wasn't just nerves.  The instrument cluster felt like it was under my boobs and looking at it was challenging.  The seat makes the rider more "in" the bike rather than on top of it.  It works out really well for shorter riders, but my legs aren't that short, so this new "perk" is lost on me.  The bike simply didn't work for me as it was set up.  I'd get new pegs, possibly bars and do something about the seat.  The demo had an aftermarket seat.  I was disappointed because I'd heard so much praise for the new ergos.  The upside about the new set up was that it tipped in very easily.  That might also have to do with the much lighter weight of the bike from the older versions.

The 696 comes with a slipper clutch.  It in a word, sucked.  The friction point was nearly at the end of the lever and my hands could barely reach it.  So much for appealing to smaller riders--you can reach the ground with the new seat but you can't actually operate the clutch.  The bike had factory gearing of course so half my time was spent fighting this odd clutch set up.  The clutch was extremely smooth--almost too smooth.  I couldn't tell when I was in gear.  It didn't have that nice meaty feel that I'm used to.  However, I think I could get used to the ease of the pull if the point of engagement could be addressed. 

I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of power the little guy pooped out.  The power didn't come on very evenly, however, and it did NOT have the torque that was promised.  The bike had plenty of oomph with just me on it, but I could tell that it didn't have the grunt that I was used to.  I think if I could learn to work with this though.  The brakes were good.  Very good.  Liked 'em a lot. 

Overall I wasn't wow'ed by the looks of the bike (but who cares...)  It still is a handsome ride.  Ducati knows how to grow 'em.  In terms of performance I felt that the motorcycle was flimsy and a bit sloppy.  I eagerly got off halfway through my demo ride to switch to the 848. 

848

So I hop onto the 848 thinking that this is just going to be my little fun break back to the shop.  I was depressed that the 696 didn't behave like I expected it to and tried to forget that "new" doesn't mean "bad" and that just because it's different from my current bike that I shouldn't dislike it.  And while I'm thinking this I'm noticing that I'm having a hell of a lot of fun on this 848.  It feels natural for some reason.  The discomfort I felt on the showroom floor was gone.  I was negotiating the same set of twisties that I'd been on with the 696 only moments before in first gear--and I was already clicking up to 2nd and contemplating 3rd.  The power was smooth, and there was lots and lots more of it.  It felt crisp and solid. 

The pegs are in the right position for me on this bike--my legs are folded up under me and I could use the strength of my quads to toss the bike around, not that I needed to do much.  We came down the hill back into city traffic.  Although I felt like a retard crouched over this bike like an eagle over a kill riding next to Volvos and Saabs at the stoplight it still didn't feel bad.  I felt my stomach muscles doing more work to hold me up than I did on the Monster, and I wondered how that would feel after a couple hours of riding.  I'd probably get new bars for this bike if for no other reason than to avoid back trouble down the road. 

I got onto the freeway and saw Enzo blast past me on the 696.  Our friend, Mark, gave chase on his 695.  Noting a clear lane ahead of me, I decided to just crack open the throttle a bit to catch the boys.  I hit three digits accidentally and very quickly.  I decided to knock that sh*t off since I had just signed a piece of paper in 17 places promising my firstborn if I so much as scratched the bike on my little trial run.  You can't see anything--and I mean ZERO--in the mirrors on the 848 so I didn't want a visit from a cop that I couldn't see coming up on me.  I have to say that I'm still sporting the grin from that little run.  I pulled into the shop gushing over the 848 and saddened that I hadn't asked to stay out longer, but legitimately concerned about those mirrors.   

OVERALL

What I took away from this was that you can't trust what you think you feel on the showroom floor.  I'm going to be doing a ton of test rides over the next two weeks.  I haven't given up on the 696 and am going to go to another shop to see if a different set-up makes a difference.  I'm now seriously considering the 848.  A Monster is a smarter choice for me, but I can't ignore the fact that my motorcycle is my "fun ride" and I keep a car for being responsible.  My bike should be practical, but not too practical.  The 848 is a lot more money though and it's 4 valves.  The initial and maintenance costs will hurt more than on a 2 valve Monster.  I think that no matter what model I get that I will be looking at a larger displacement bike.  It seems that the bigger engines have nicer parts and are simply better machines than their smaller counterparts.  I've noticed this on the older model bikes that I've ridden as well. 

So my big concern now is that the used bike that I'm looking at won't be a good fit ergonomically for me if I get it.  I'm hoping that the geometry of it is not like the new Monsters.  I'm going to try to ride something close to it to get a feel for it. 

Next on the test ride list:  Another 696 and a Hypermotard.  I'm excited to see about this 1100 motor.  I'm going to try both a Speed Triple and a Street Triple after that to get a feel for other nakeds.  And then I'm going to see about a Honda 600RR and a 1098 to rule out or narrow down the super-sport field.  Apparently the Monster 1100 test models will be out in early January. 

My impression from siting on a 696 was that it had a "dirtbike," over the bars feel to it. Much more so than my monster or the S2R. That is not necessarily  a bad thing, it's just different. Kind of like driving a car where you cant see the hood.

If you are going to test a 600RR Climb on a CRF250 while your in there. From that seating position you should be looking at the front of the fender of the CRF. That is your standard off road, racebike seating position. This position gets most of your weight over the front wheel, that's where you want it on that sort of bike. I'm guessing that the Monster is supposed to be a hooligan bike, meant to beat around on the narrow streets of Italy, or the streets of S.F. for that matter, and not be too cruiser like. Maybe that why I had to Jump mine a couple of times.  ;D    You will probably find the same sort of seating position on the Hyper.

Since you are used to a bigger bike, like a 944, do ride that 1100 and tell us how it is.

The 696 seat certainly pushes you towards the tank...but I sat on one with an aftermarket (DP) seat, and it felt much better. Still, nothing beats that impression you get while riding and I never got one out on the street.

You're probably right about the reasoning behind the new position on the Monster.  I just didn't like it.  I don't ride every bike well--I'm one of "those" people.  If something is off in my mind I struggle with it.  Better riders can ride anything reasonably well.  Not me.   [cheeky]

Mendo - I'll see about the CRF.  This is the first time I've heard of one.  I'm trying to avoid buying a superbike, but the field of possibilities opened up a lot after having ridden that 848.  I'm really trying hard not to like it as much as I did.  It's not a smart buy for me but my brain isn't running the show right now.   :D

MB, are you really contemplating buying a $14k bike or is that just wishful thinkin'?  I'm actually wondering, cuz it would seriously open up your options.  For that price, you could buy that set-up '05 M1000 AND pick up a 916.  Or alternatively, you could buy that '05 M1000, get a fully pimped trackbike and buy a dozen more trackdays next year. 

I'm contemplating *financing* a 14K bike.  I don't have that kind of cash, so it's not like I'm sitting on an extra 10K that's burning a hole in my pocket.  Trust me, if I did I'd be at the track right now.  [laugh]  I also know that I don't want a 916.  It's gorgeous, but it's stupid.  If I'm feeling exasperated with a Monster, a 916 will make me suicidal when it starts to act up.  I ride too much and don't know enough about wrenching to justify one.  The price of the 848 is really what's holding me back.  It's too much money and I know it.  I'm desperately looking for a reason not to buy it.  I have a test ride set up on Michael Moore's bike to see what it's like.  It's the closest comparison to the Maryland bike that I can think of.  If I like his bike, then I'm probably going to get the used Monster--unless Desmoto comes up with a Christmas miracle on my current Monster.   

I wasn't suggesting the 916 in particular.  I was just trying to put the cost of an 848 in perspective.  Can't you get a bank loan to finance a used bike?

Michael's bike is a good example for you of what a good suspension will feel like (his is soooo plush), of the power of a FI bike, and of those CC rearsets.  But you really should see if you can get on Juan's or cloudseeker's 1000 (who else has one?) to feel the ST-based frame and the 1000 engine.  The 1000 has a more oomph than the 900.  Tigre's kitted FI 944 and my re-geared but otherwise stock 1000 felt similar in terms of power. 

+1. You should ride MOBsters' bikes to get a good sampling...not only of the various models & engine types, but also of the variations within those types. Spidey's M1000 probably rides very different from Juan's. And my S4R probably rides very different from DATV's or MrIncredible's (burning parts aside). And goodness knows that Itasickness' 695 rides very differently from somegirl's.

FWIW, There was a 450mile salvage title (but in perfect shape) white 848 at Munroe's last week for a bit over $10k.  I'm not entirely sure how it works, but it is definitely possible to get it plated.  The ticket said cosmetic damage...

uno:
It shouldn't be surprising how different people interpret different rides, everyone having such different bodies. It's like comparing shoes.  

due: IMHO
There is something about a new bike other than that new bike smell. (which is certainly delectable)
Let the word, NEW, sink in for a minute. 3 year warranty + free roadside assistance anywhere = No more problems (that are yours.)
That's worth a lot of money + peace of mind.

tre:
If you get on the Hypermotard, try sitting hips forward, chest back, way more than you're used to. Instead of sitting straight backed like on a street bike, you let your back arch a bit. It's basically a big dirt bike. You're going to get all over that long seat hoping curbs-n-sheit. Having grown up on bikes like that, it seems too heavy for what I'm used to doing on a bike like that, but that's me. It's a mighty fun bike if that's your thing. Pulls like a tractor.

quattro:
848 mirror cure: Forearms flat horizontal, spine straight, head forward, lift an elbo a couple inches. There's everything behind you in your mirror. ( I can see everything I need with just the left one.)

If'n you wants more torque: 14 tooth front sprocket. $25.00 ish bucks. You're now in touch with your low end torque; you got 134 hp and only 360 pounds.
You on top will make it 370lbs.  [cheeky]

CRF 250 or CRF 450.

This is what your looking for in the showroom. Not street legal, these are race bikes only. But the seating position is why I mentioned them.
This is about as dirtbike as it gets.

(http://w3.bikepics.com/pics/2008%5C11%5C08%5Cbikepics-1475738-800.jpg)

(http://w3.bikepics.com/pics/2008%5C11%5C09%5Cbikepics-1477036-800.jpg)

Ick.  Me no likey.  I'll try sitting on one though, assuming my butt-cheeks aren't repelled by it. 

Actually, that bike looks like it'd give you a wedgie.

My advice:

Buy the 848. Life's too short to make every decision a rational one.

No worries, that seat only gets used when waiting for the starting gate to drop & when you stuff it into a turn. The rest of the time is spent standing up.

[laugh]

Have you forgotten that I'm sportin' two XX chromosomes?  I make plenty of irrational decisions.   [laugh] 

(Point taken, however.) 

Its nice to have a new one, but save yourself a few thousand and buy a slightly used. You'd probably pay close to 16K oTD, but couldn't sell it the next day for 12K.

Street triple.  Too small for me but the S version?  Nice.  Plus it's no UJM and there's lots of good aftermarket bits to make it fit/work the way you want AND they're doing some interesting financing options right now if I'm not mistaken.

BTW got your PM, sent a response just now.

ya,
Check that white 848 @ Munroe deal that was mentioned. I saw that bike. It was perfect. If you scuff enough plastics on it new, its like $9k to fix. Some Ins. Co totaled it because of cost. They put new plastic on it and bing, new bike. I bet you could talk them way down. Its paid for. Some one else is selling it, so you're negotiating with them, not Munroe or DNA. I think it has full warranty as well. But of course check all that with a fine toothed comb. If its all true that's a steal and a half.  150 miles are you kidding?

Retail price is for chumps. Go the used / leftover floor model route for sure.

Assuming the bank approves.

Talk to eviltwin about his Street triple.

Gee Dan, how would you know that? [cheeky]

As most of you know, I buy used vehicles--heavily used vehicles....  [laugh]  "New" is a really new thing for me.  In fact, I've never actually bought a new motorcycle, car, anything.  I've also never taken this long (or had an opportunity to take this long) in buying a vehicle.  Usually it's a matter of necessity and I buy the first thing that comes along that doesn't break the bank.  I've never financed a vehicle because I've never bought anything with wheels on it that cost more than $5500.  This has been an interesting experience. 

Well at this point even if you do go out and buy an 848,  you can't call it an impulse buy.   [thumbsup]
This thread is been keeping me entertained for months.  I wish I could chime in with something useful, but it would seem that most angles are covered.  Actually that's not true  I think you should buy the White 848.   [laugh]

I really liked this bike at the IMS, the seat may be a bit too tall for you, but it looks like a good street based (410lbs/92 hp) tard. jimbo, you get to test ride one yet? No price listed either

(http://cdn.psndealer.com/dealersite/images/newvehicles/nv105292_2_400.jpg)

GENERAL INFORMATION 
 Insurance   Get an Insurance Quote 
 
 Manufacturer   Aprilia 
 
 Model Year   2009 
 
 Model   SMV 750 Dorsoduro 
 
 MSRP   Request a Quote   
 
 ENGINE 
 Engine   Longitudinal 90° V-twin, 4-stroke, double overhead camshaft with mixed gear/chain drive, 4-valves per cylinder 
 
 Gross Horsepower   92 hp (68.6 kW) @ 8,750 rpm 
 
 Displacement   749.9 cc 
 
 Bore x Stroke   3.6 x 2.22 in. (92 x 56.4 mm) 
 
 Torque   60.5 ft. lbs. (82 Nm) @ 4,500 rpm 
 
 Compression Ratio   11:1 
 
 Fuel System   Integrated engine management system, injection with Ride by Wire technology control of the throttle bodies 
 
 Starting   Electric 
 
 Clutch   Hydraulically operated multi-plate wet clutch 
 
 Cooling   Liquid 
 
 Exhaust   2-in-1 system in 100% stainless steel with 3-way catalytic converter and Lambda probe 
 
 Ignition   Digital electronic with 1 spark plug per cylinder 
 
 Lubrication   Wet sump 
 
 DIMENSIONS 
 Length   87.2 in. (2,216 mm) 
 
 Width   35.6 in. (905 mm) 
 
 Height   46.7 in. (1,185 mm) 
 
 Weight   410.1 lbs. (186 kg) 
 
 Frame   Modular steel trellis secured to aluminum side plates by high strength bolts, detachable rear frame 
 
 Wheelbase   59.3 in. (1,505 mm) 
 
 Fuel Capacity   3.2 gal. (12 l) 
 
 Seat Height   34.3 in. (870 mm) 
 
 DRIVETRAIN 
 Transmission   6-speed 
 
 Primary Drive   Spur gears
Transmission Ratio: 38/71 (1.87) 
 
 Final Drive   Chain
Transmission Ratio: 16/46 
 
 Suspension   Front: 43 mm upside-down fork, 6.3 in. (160 mm) travel
Rear: Aluminum alloy swingarm, hydraulic shock absorber adjustable in spring preload and rebound damping 
 
 BRAKES/WHEELS/TIRES 
 Brakes   Front: 320 mm double stainless steel floating disc, 4-piston radial calipers, metal braided line
Rear: 240 mm stainless steel disc, with single piston caliper, metal braided line 
 
 Tires   Tubeless radial
Front: 120/70 ZR 17 in.
Rear: 180/55 ZR 17 in. 
 
 Wheels   Aluminum alloy
Front: 3.5 x 17 in.
Rear: 6 x 17 in. 
 
 Insurance   Get an Insurance Quote

MSRP ~ $9500 (I thought it was going to be $10k+)  Big step up in suspension/brakes and it sounds even better than the Shiver.

I should have my first two around the first of Jan AND I'm going to have a demo.  I'll have to bring it on a group ride and bring a bunch of waivers for you guys to fill out  [thumbsup]

:o wow thats a plesent surprise i thought it would be easily 10K-12K

Yeah, I thought it seemed low, considering.  I can't wait to break in my new company 'car'.

The DMV Handbook of Registration Procedures has most of that stuff in chapter 7ish.  http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/reg_hdbk_pdf/toc.htm
Basically, it's got to be a 50 state bike and have 7500 miles. 
Remember 'ol sparky', the Harley I rode?  That was my buddy's and he bought it in Hawaii with 1200 miles.  I rode that thing more than he did trying to put miles on it.