Ford announced that in 2010 it'll be debuting the 'My Key' system on their cars - 1st the focus. Basically it's a parental governor system that can cap the top speed (to around 80), limit the radio volume, warn you at 75 miles till empty and make various other noises when the car does x y or z.
What happened to kids having a crappy car? Neither of the 1st tow cars I got to drive could really ever make it to 80. Didn't have a loud stereo and had a perfectly workable gas guage...
My key on Gizmodo (http://gizmodo.com/5059577/ford-mykey-system-lets-parents-control-the-speed-stereo-volume-of-teenagers-cars)
It's all personally responsibility. Parents not taking the responsibility to properly teach & monitor their children & make the consequences of speed, not paying attention perfectly clear be it tickets, loss of driving privileges, or injury/death of them or their passengers.
JM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on October 07, 2008, 04:24:35 AM
It's all personally responsibility. Parents not taking the responsibility to properly teach & monitor their children & make the consequences of speed, not paying attention perfectly clear be it tickets, loss of driving privileges, or injury/death of them or their passengers.
Bullshit. The personal responsibilty falls on the kid.
My Dad taught me well on driving. Taught me the consequence of speed. Gave a good example on what good driving is.
What did I do when I turned 16? Pushed that 1987 Camry to its make the beast with two backsing limits.
And when I turned 18 and got my ticket for 87 in a 65 -- he laughed in my face.
And I went to court, and I paid the ticket. Not him.
Kids are going to do what they want.
Quote from: wbeck257 on October 07, 2008, 04:38:28 AM
Bullshit. The personal responsibilty falls on the kid.
My Dad taught me well on driving. Taught me the consequence of speed. Gave a good example on what good driving is.
What did I do when I turned 16? Pushed that 1987 Camry to its make the beast with two backsing limits.
And when I turned 18 and got my ticket for 87 in a 65 -- he laughed in my face.
And I went to court, and I paid the ticket. Not him.
Kids are going to do what they want.
+1
a parent can only do so much, and then its up to the kid.
i know that i was pretty selective about using what my dad tried to teach me. doesnt make it his fault that i was a typical moron teenage driver when i first started.
and i taught my younger brother how to drive (when i was 18).........what a fiasco that was [roll]
Teenage drivers will do what they want, this won't change that *too* much. They can still make poor decisions about what to do while driving. Just because you can limit the top speed won't help if they're doing 80 around a curve posted 25MPH because it's quite tight. I just see it as another way to "proxy parent."
JM
I understand that teenagers are stupid, but this takes things too far.
Whatever happened to kids learn by experience? If the kid is dumb enough to get a ticket, he pays for it by working his ass off to get the money. If the kid crashes the car? he pays for the repair. If he drives drunk? He loses driving privileges until he can buy his own car.
This shit nowadays that parents want to overprotect their kids from everything prevents kids from actually learning anything and being able to do things from themselves later on.
What if the kid is on the freeway, say doing 70, and a truck starts merging into his lane. He tries to accelerate to get out, but guess what? the cars limiter comes on. Congrats! your stupid ass just killed your son!
Quote from: El Matador on October 07, 2008, 06:58:10 AM
I understand that teenagers are stupid, but this takes things too far.
Whatever happened to kids learn by experience? If the kid is dumb enough to get a ticket, he pays for it by working his ass off to get the money. If the kid crashes the car? he pays for the repair. If he drives drunk? He loses driving privileges until he can buy his own car.
This shit nowadays that parents want to overprotect their kids from everything prevents kids from actually learning anything and being able to do things from themselves later on.
Devils advocate time, for the sake of discussion...
Well it doesn't seem that this system will really be able to limit 'stupid'. 80 is still faster than any speed limit I've ever seen... and as fast as my 1st car could hope to go. It seems more of a sales feature to me than anything that will really prevent anything from happening.
And by comparison, this is pretty minor comprated to some of the devices (after market) that are already available. GPS recorders, inward facing cameras that act like a black box (constantly recording, but only preserve the data for a specified time around a specified event like sudden decel) etc. All that stuff is out there - true it's not coming from the factory until this...
But yeah - how do you teach people? We keep coming back to the personal responsibility theme as a root undercurrent. Nanny devices can't teach that and it seems a lot of parents can't either...
Ungh I'm bumming myself out here...
The best way IMO to teach them to drive starts when they're old enough to process your actions when you're driving them around. We're talking 2-3 years old. They will watch and remember a surprising about HOW you drive and HOW you react to other vehicles. Once they become old enough to be interested in driving, start talking about stuff. They'll ask questions once they know you're willing to talk about what you're doing. When another driver does something stupid, requiring you to respond with control inputs, point out what they did & how/why you reacted the way you did. Once they're a permit driver (with you in the passenger seat) ask them questions about "did you see that car do this, why or why not did you react?" That's how I learned, and aside from the typical teenager burnouts & desire to go fast (no amount of teaching are going to prevent these things) I did turn out a decent driver that stays calm & collected with driving/riding ~
JM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on October 07, 2008, 07:19:28 AM
The best way IMO to teach them to drive starts when they're old enough to process your actions when you're driving them around. We're talking 2-3 years old. They will watch and remember a surprising about HOW you drive and HOW you react to other vehicles. Once they become old enough to be interested in driving, start talking about stuff. They'll ask questions once they know you're willing to talk about what you're doing. When another driver does something stupid, requiring you to respond with control inputs, point out what they did & how/why you reacted the way you did. Once they're a permit driver (with you in the passenger seat) ask them questions about "did you see that car do this, why or why not did you react?" That's how I learned, and aside from the typical teenager burnouts & desire to go fast (no amount of teaching are going to prevent these things) I did turn out a decent driver that stays calm & collected with driving/riding ~
JM
+1
Quote from: the_Journeyman on October 07, 2008, 07:19:28 AM
The best way IMO to teach them to drive starts when they're old enough to process your actions when you're driving them around. We're talking 2-3 years old. They will watch and remember a surprising about HOW you drive and HOW you react to other vehicles. Once they become old enough to be interested in driving, start talking about stuff. They'll ask questions once they know you're willing to talk about what you're doing. When another driver does something stupid, requiring you to respond with control inputs, point out what they did & how/why you reacted the way you did. Once they're a permit driver (with you in the passenger seat) ask them questions about "did you see that car do this, why or why not did you react?" That's how I learned, and aside from the typical teenager burnouts & desire to go fast (no amount of teaching are going to prevent these things) I did turn out a decent driver that stays calm & collected with driving/riding ~
JM
I like... yes we forget that a lot of learning occurs early on. Perceptions are formed well before one gets their license. If Jr. sees mommy/daddy driving like an ass, talking on the phone/texting, tailgating, cutting people off etc etc - that impression of 'that's how one drives' will last a long time. Hmmm circling back round to personal responsibility again... a commodity in too short supply in America.
My Leash
My Thumb
Quote from: yuu on October 07, 2008, 07:30:23 AM
I like... yes we forget that a lot of learning occurs early on. Perceptions are formed well before one gets their license. If Jr. sees mommy/daddy driving like an ass, talking on the phone/texting, tailgating, cutting people off etc etc - that impression of 'that's how one drives' will last a long time. Hmmm circling back round to personal responsibility again... a commodity in too short supply in America.
IMO, the issue isn't black and white as to who should be personally responsible with kids. The parents have a responsibility to raise them right (which rarely happens nowadays) and then the kids have a responsibility to act right (also rare).
Also, there need to be more consequences. If I caused an wreck or got a ticket, I paid the resulting difference in cost on insurance.
You know what really gets me thinking about comments of bad parenting? I am a product of my parents parenting, they are the products of their parents and so on.
Im a relatively young guy (24) and with all the "how old are you" posts on the forum, I realize that a good amount of people are over their 40s 50s. Are not the "parents" who are my generation, who do such a shitty job parenting a product of their parents?
Dont get me wrong, I dont like shitty parents or parenting but it does not fall solely on one generation.
Quote from: JBubble on October 07, 2008, 08:15:39 AM
IMO, the issue isn't black and white as to who should be personally responsible with kids. The parents have a responsibility to raise them right (which rarely happens nowadays) and then the kids have a responsibility to act right (also rare).
Also, there need to be more consequences. If I caused an wreck or got a ticket, I paid the resulting difference in cost on insurance.
I like the new Allstate commercial that has the courtroom scene where a couple in a car is awarded $100,000 against a teen for vehicular negligence. Too bad too many teens (older folks too, but to not the same extent) don't realize that simply texting/being on the cell phone can lead to that type of charge/citation & judgement. Too bad the commercial didn't state what the "negligence" was.
JM
When my son gets close to 16 years of age, I will begin my quest. I will be in search of a duplicate of my first vehicle.....a 1978 Vega Station Wagon, Silver with the brown wood grained wallpaper exterior panels and maroon vinyl interior. That car couldnt do 80mph going downhill with a tailwind!
Quote from: JBubble on October 07, 2008, 08:15:39 AM
IMO, the issue isn't black and white as to who should be personally responsible with kids. The parents have a responsibility to raise them right (which rarely happens nowadays) and then the kids have a responsibility to act right (also rare).
Also, there need to be more consequences. If I caused an wreck or got a ticket, I paid the resulting difference in cost on insurance.
Xacly. Most of us did and still do stupid things. So will our children and grandchildren. All part of learning.
Quote from: yuu on October 07, 2008, 07:30:23 AM
I like... yes we forget that a lot of learning occurs early on. Perceptions are formed well before one gets their license. If Jr. sees mommy/daddy driving like an ass, talking on the phone/texting, tailgating, cutting people off etc etc - that impression of 'that's how one drives' will last a long time. Hmmm circling back round to personal responsibility again... a commodity in too short supply in America.
Also true. Set the example folks [thumbsup]
Quote from: OwnyTony on October 07, 2008, 08:24:56 AM
You know what really gets me thinking about comments of bad parenting? I am a product of my parents parenting, they are the products of their parents and so on.
I'm a relatively young guy (24) and with all the "how old are you" posts on the forum, I realize that a good amount of people are over their 40s 50s. Are not the "parents" who are my generation, who do such a shitty job parenting a product of their parents?
Don't get me wrong, I don't like shitty parents or parenting but it does not fall solely on one generation.
I think parents want to do right by their kids, giving them things that they didn't have. The key word is "Giving" which creates expectation and if unchecked will turn your kid into an impatient, ungrateful PIA.....Ive seen a lot.
Too many parents these days try to be "cool buddies" with their kids instead of parents. I'm a little guilty of that with my 6 year old son. I'm heavily into cars, bikes, guns and cussing.....all fascinating items to a six year old. But, he realizes there is a line that if he crosses, privileges will be taken away. He has great manners, will look you in the eye while shaking your hand and will hold the door open for his mom/females. I think there is a happy medium that can be reached and maintained.
we also need to remember that the world that todays kids are growing up in is vastly different from the one their parents grew up in. repeat that sentence for the parents and their parents. when i was growing up, there where no cell phones, ipods, in car gps, etc..... for me to be distracted by while driving. and there may or may not have been a radio in the car my dad learned to drive in (definately no 8 track). and uncle sam taught my grandfather how to drive a general purpose vehicle in the 40's, since there were no cars around to learn on when he was a kid.
point is, you can only take the comparisons so far.
I bet by the time this system is released to the public it will take less than six months for the lil f*@kers to have figured out a way around it. At this point a 16 yr old in 2010 has grown up on computers and all they'll have to do is hook their car up to myspace or something and they'll be able to go 110 before you know it. I remember when my parents got a tv with a password that was supposed to prevent my little brother from watch "bad" tv shows. He had a way around that within ten minutes.
Quote from: Rufus120 on October 07, 2008, 09:28:27 AM
I bet by the time this system is released to the public it will take less than six months for the lil f*@kers to have figured out a way around it.
Analog solutions to digital problems:
(http://www.carlustblog.com/images/2008/04/16/gremlin1.jpg)
Quote from: yuu on October 07, 2008, 10:05:57 AM
Analog solutions to digital problems:
(http://www.carlustblog.com/images/2008/04/16/gremlin1.jpg)
Analog response to analog solution. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMsjRtOHXow&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMsjRtOHXow&feature=related)
Ehhhhh... smart ass. :P
Ok - find me a hopped up version of anyone of the fine beauties housed in the microcar museum (http://www.microcarmuseum.com/).
Quote from: yuu on October 07, 2008, 10:46:08 AM
Ehhhhh... smart ass. :P
Ok - find me a hopped up version of anyone of the fine beauties housed in the microcar museum (http://www.microcarmuseum.com/).
Ok.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJgxMoDn8VA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJgxMoDn8VA)
That was easy.
Yuu = not as crafty as he thinks he is...
One last shot... Circa 1984 Subaru GL wagon aka my 1st car.
Quote from: yuu on October 07, 2008, 10:53:14 AM
Yuu = not as crafty as he thinks he is...
<snip>
Well duh. :-*
Quote from: yuu on October 07, 2008, 10:53:14 AM
Yuu = not as crafty as he thinks he is...
One last shot... Circa 1984 Subaru GL wagon aka my 1st car.
6th one down is close enough.
http://www.techworkseng.com/Gallery/Customer_Rides.htm (http://www.techworkseng.com/Gallery/Customer_Rides.htm)
Quote from: JBubble on October 07, 2008, 10:56:13 AM
Well duh. :-*
Look here missy!
Quote from: lethe on October 07, 2008, 10:56:36 AM
6th one down is close enough.
I didn't have no stinkin' turbo... but on that note - I surrender.
i learned to drive in a 197? dodge van, 3 on the tree. that thing wouldnt go faster than about 60 mph
my first car was a 1970 toyota FJ40 landcruiser, also 3 on the tree. i found out that it would not go over 60 when i blew the engine on I-25 between Ft Collins and Denver.
edit: most important point. i didnt own a car until i was 22 years old. parents wouldnt buy me one (good for them) and it was not a priority for me.
motorcycle on the other hand..............
I understand the impetus for developing something like this. Parents are legally responsible if their kid make the beast with two backss up and gets in a major wreck while their under 18. Being that we live in an increasingly litigious society, this makes perfect sense to me. It sucks, but it's reality now.
Quote from: herm on October 07, 2008, 09:26:18 AM
we also need to remember that the world that todays kids are growing up in is vastly different from the one their parents grew up in. repeat that sentence for the parents and their parents. when i was growing up, there where no cell phones, ipods, in car gps, etc..... for me to be distracted by while driving. and there may or may not have been a radio in the car my dad learned to drive in (definately no 8 track). and uncle sam taught my grandfather how to drive a general purpose vehicle in the 40's, since there were no cars around to learn on when he was a kid.
point is, you can only take the comparisons so far.
We still had distractions. Girlfriend almost in your lap while trying to shift that three on the tree, beer, foggy windows (no AC or rear widow defrosters yet), even an AM radio with five push buttons and general horsing around, just to mention some. It didn't take long for me to turn my '57 Ford Fairlane into a '57 Falcon.
I think some here also tend to forget that when kids are being crazy and the crap hits the fan, a lot of the time they aren't the only ones that pay the price. Myself and others I know have been injured because of kids learning or experiencing their "responsibility to act right"
I think that parents should do all that has been mentioned but also back that up by putting real limits in place. Limits that can be removed when they earn it and show they can handle it, instead of giving them complete freedom and then hoping they don't abuse it. That's just working backward. This tech can be a real limit in some cases, like when your 16yr old borrows the family car, not a virtual one like "Johny don't act crazy and do stupid stuff with your crazy, disrespectful, loser friends that I let you hang out with and be influenced by". If you have a gun in the house you don't tell your kids that it can be dangerous if don't follow certain safety rules or if used carelessly and then not lock it up for extra protection, hoping that your kid doesn't do anything stupid like "general horsing around", like all kids are certain to do, and kill himself or someone else. (Columbine comes to mind here)
Too many parents today think that their kids will learn responsibility just by the good example set, and that is a huge part of it, but then let their kids do whatever they want, They say "they have to be who they want to be" or some such BS, saying that teaches them responsibility but it often teaches them to do just that, whatever they please without regard to anyone else. And often there are no consequences even then. "they're just being kids". Teach your kids right, then set fair limits (Tech or otherwise) and hopefully they will learn responsibility.
A speed limiter won't prevent stupidity behind the wheel. It will only limit the car's top speed. A well intentioned but useless gesture IMHO. Just my .005