Can't believe I actually went through with it. Here are the measurements from my initial check at 6K:
Horizontal
Intake Opener .0015 Intake Closer 0 Exhaust Opener .0015 Exhaust Closer .0005
Vertical
Intake Opener 0 Intake Closer .0015 Exhaust Opener .0015 Exhaust Closer .0005
Some Notes:
As I was checking the vertical exhaust valves I noticed a KTM logo indented on the bottom of the oil cooler! "What the heck" is what I said to myself. Aren't Ducati and KTM competitors? Anyways I sanded the openers and closers. Sanded one of the openers too much so I ordered that one from EMSduc.com. I kind of regret sanding the shims because its going to make things difficult the next time around if I need to order new shims but I'll deal with that when I get there. I tried using forceps to secure the valves like in the video but that did not work out and I actually took a couple tiny bits off of the edge of one of the valve seals! Then I quickly realized that I was going to have to use the screwdriver in the plug hole method instead. Hopefully the valve seal wont be mad at me! I had a hard time figuring out which side of the half rings is supposed to go up. They are supposed to go in the same way they were before taken out Solution: When viewed from one side the sharp end of the half ring looks more pronounced/sharper/more dagger-like and that is the side that is supposed to go up (I hope). Also for the openers I found that putting them back in and using the feeler gauges was a good way to measure them instead of the caliper. I kind of didn't trust myself with that thing specially for the first shim I sanded, which was the one I sanded too much. It was very labor intensive but even more fun. It took a lot more time than I would have thought it would but I think the results will be worth it and the valves were an awesome sight!
Congrats! Feels good huh working on your own shizz! [thumbsup]
I know the closer's can be a zero clearance as long as you can spin the shim but I am pretty sure the openers aren't supposed to be zero clearance. Are these your before or after measurements?
I'm assuming you took off the timing belts to get the closer valves right.
I did take the belts off (partially) and spun the vertical cam 360 degrees several times with one finger. It rotated freely so I assume that means there is no binding. After sanding the closers I also pushed down on the closing rocker at TDC and made sure the closer would rotate all the way around with pressure from one finger. I talked to Mike from EMS and he said that my shim has been shipped so I am waiting on it. A big thanks to Chris from California Cycleworks. He is really knowledgeable... He's the guy I got my tools from.
It is nice to do things for yourself. I did mine last month. It took 6 hours!!
The company that makes the radiators for Ducati is KTM Khuehler, it used to be part of KTM but was sold to an Italian group in 1992.
http://www.ktm-kuehler.at/95029db1565b60061c724f9c6d250c9e.html (http://www.ktm-kuehler.at/95029db1565b60061c724f9c6d250c9e.html)
Interesting, okay.
I agree, getting the clamp onto the valve can be a PITA. I filed down the teeth on the clamp, then did a single wrap of electrical tape, This sort of made a divet for the valve to want to stay in once you compress the clamp.
Congrats!!!
Well I don't think my initial measurements for my closers were correct because I don't think I pressed down hard enough on the closing rocker to get the full clearance so I will be measuring them again and probably replacing them. :(
It's hard to believe that at 6,000 miles your openers are at 0 clearance. Are you measuring at TDC on the compression stroke?
Only one of my openers measured 0. I am sure I was measuring on compression TDC for the respective valves and I even double checked. The .0015 feeler did not go in no matter what and I don't have a smaller feeler in my set so I considered that to be 0. Curious to know why you find it hard to believe.
Your openers will require NO pressure on any rocker arm to be checked (so long as the cam is not trying to open either valve (it's on the base circle)) and they should be no tighter than 0.004". NO tighter then that. Any clearance smaller than 4 thousandths will mean that there is NO room for the valve to grow in length as it heats up during normal use. That causes bindage when the valve heats up and expands and that will wear the chrome off of your opening rocker arms and eventually destroy your camshafts*.
*: Not destroy as in explode, but wear out the faces where the rocker arm slides and therefore damage the camshaft requiring its replacement.
No sir I did not put any pressure to check the openers (only the closers). So you are saying that erring on the loose side is better than erring on the tight side for the opening clearance? (In other words .005 would be better than .003). I heard though that the EMS shims are harder than the OEM shims which makes me wonder if there is a higher chance that my half rings will brake. Thanks for the advice Dr. Duck-Stew :)
Quote from: uclabiker06 on December 11, 2008, 09:45:13 AM
No sir I did not put any pressure to check the openers (only the closers). So you are saying that erring on the loose side is better than erring on the tight side for the opening clearance? (In other words .005 would be better than .003). I heard though that the EMS shims are harder than the OEM shims which makes me wonder if there is a higher chance that my half rings will brake. Thanks for the advice Dr. Duck-Stew :)
Unless you're racing the engine, neither shims hardness will come into play any significant amount. And as far as opening clearances go...I'd rather see 0.010" than 0.003"...
I shoot for .004 when I'm doing the openers on a 2V Duc, but up to .010 will run just fine...
Oh, and I dropped out before my Doctoral program started up... My advisor told me to do it! [cheeky]
What doesn't make sense is that your openers and closers were near zero clearance. Normally, the opener clearances get smaller and the closer clearances get larger. Ideally, the change in the clearances should track one for one as the valve seats wear. If I were you, I'd start over....
Okay, thanks for the wonderful advice Duck-Stew [evil]. You never cease to impress me with what seems to be an infinite knowledge for these bikes.
QuoteWhat doesn't make sense is that your openers and closers were near zero clearance. Normally, the opener clearances get smaller and the closer clearances get larger. Ideally, the change in the clearances should track one for one as the valve seats wear. If I were you, I'd start over....
Yeah, I think I see what you are saying. Honestly, I don't think I pushed down hard enough on the closing rockers for my initial measurements and perhaps that's why I sanded my closing shims too much. I plan on measuring the closing clearances again, but the openers I got taken care of.
However, one thing that concerns me is that when i was trying to move the cams around with the engine turning tool I turned it the direction its not supposed to go. I did this several time but only for a split second until I heard the weird noise then I stopped. Did I mess up the "timing" by doing this?
Assuming you were turning the drive pulley, if you turn it backwards (clockwise), the starter sprag backdrives the starter motor and gears, that's the weird noise.
As long as you lined up the dots on the pulleys correctly when you put the belts back on, the cam timing is fine.
Got it, thanks for the reply.
To the OP...... props for diving in & giving it a shot...... more of a man than me [thumbsup]
To Nick & Stu.... I assume you're talking thousnads of an inch correct ??? What does that translate to in MM ??? Looking over the report I got back from my replaced valve guides, the tech stated he set all closers @ .05mm & all openers @ .15mm...... does that sound aboutright ??? I sure hope so because I've been riding the snot out of it for the last 5K [evil] If not I guess it's :o & :'( @ the 18k service. I'm also running the MBP collets so I hope they were set right because my understading is these beefier collets help keep the clearences longer.
.05mm = .002"
.15mm = .006"
Those are *alright*.
Thanks Nick [thumbsup]
See you @ 18k [thumbsup]
Yes, Nick I will be seeing you soon as well.
Here are my final measurements:
ALL Openers at .004 (no tighter)
Horizontal and Vertical Intake Closers at .002
Horizontal and Vertical Exhaust Closers at .003
What I found interesting about the intake closers (both) was that when I inserted the feelers I got a reading of .003 with full force on the closing rocker but when I replaced the shims with ones that were .002 larger than the originals they were too tight (binding) so I just counted the both vertical closers as .002 even though the feelers gave me a .003 measurement. Now I just have to patch things up and hopefully have no smoke coming from the valve seal that got snapped at by the forceps stabilization attempt. Thanks to all for the help!