Ducati Monster Forum

Thought I'd get this out there because I am far from an expert and I know there are many questions coming my way.

Some of you may remember on TOB me asking a bit of advice for a workmate. Well he has just done the deed and is picking up his ex-demo S2R 1000 on the weekend. He was close to picking up a GT1000, but after riding both the decision was easy  [thumbsup]

Now that he has spent all his money there is only one mod occupying his mind ... pipes. So what can you guys advise ... I don't mean personal preferences for certain pipes ... I am more concerned about all the issues I have heard about which may be S2R1000 specific. Are OzMo bikes any diffrent to the US variety?

His two primary goals are to make the thing sound like a Ducati and to get rid of the udder, so we are talking about a full system - power is not really an issue. First option is a Termi kit, but after hearing the sound-off clips he is a little partial to the sound of the Arrows. How important is an ECU, etc ... s'pose the simple question is how can he cheaply get set up and running smoothly with sound and no udder.

Thanks guys ... thought you might appreciate a mod related query  ;D

... and because I know ya gunna ask ...

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3216/3132818732_4712bf5235.jpg?v=0)

that bike is udder shit. he's bought badly. I'll come up and collect it from him so he doesn't have to make any decisions regarding pipes!

it's all part of my generous nature.  ;D

what's ex demo cost (you can PM me if you don't want to put it up.)

and serious answer....


ZARDS are a dream....but nothing wrong with SIL either!

Hey Betty PM Andy55 and 748s. They both have the S2R1000.

Andy55 has the Arrows and 748s has the Zards.....

PS: Spider is such a "nice" guy to offer to help out......
      Now I see why he is called "Spider"......
      Once he gets you into his web, your gone...  [cheeky]  [cheeky]

i have a mate with one and he has a spark mid pipe to get rid of the cat, his bike is an absolute pig below 3000 and it hunts until about 5000. pipes alone, especially if it includes removing the cat will bring this on. the termi kit with the ECU should be the best package, after that any aftermarket exhaust option with a FIM replacement ECU is apparently the only other way to fix it properly. there are devices that replace the O2 sensor and fool it into thinking it's cold and therefore richening up the fuel but it's not the right way to go and may in the long term cause damage.


paul.

G'day Mark
I don't know how helpful I can be regarding my Arrow pipes as I fitted the DP ECU at the same time so I can't comment on how it would run with pipes only. As you mention though plenty of instances of this motor being on the lean side in factory trim so I can't imagine open pipes with possibley open air box on your mates bike running to well without attention to the mapping. Mine certainly had a small hestitation or stumble coming off idle when pulling away in stock trim which I just accepted as the characteristic of the bike when I got it. That has completely dissapeared with the pipes and computer.
I certainly like the sound of the Arrows but as you know they are pretty loud , I'm off work for a week and a half so if your mate is interested I'll come for a ride up your way and he can have a listen.

Andy

Cheers Paul and Andy - I was worried that was the case, will let him know. But would obviously still be interested in any other feedback.

As for the ride ... I am awaiting his call once he is ready for a spin. It will be interesting to see how loud is too loud - following both Andy & Jukie through some cuttings I confirm the sound is fantastic ... but enough to shake your eaplugs out  [laugh]

yep, it's too loud, it's a pig.....I'm coming up tomorrow, have the keys ready  ;D

(I have issues at the moment - it's been TOO long - I nearly pushed a guy off his 999 yesterday - actually that may be a sign - when the 999 starts looking GOOD it means you haven't ridden a Ducati in a while  ;D    )

So Spider, despite the obvious desperation for a Ducati .... is there something in particular you have your eye on?

Other than my mate's not even received S2R

ZARD claim their full system will run well on the stock ECU
I ran the ZARD system on the stock ECU and stock airbox while waiting for a Ducati Performance ECU.
There was a random pop/fart on trailing throttle. Engine temperature was no different to stock set up.
I can verify their claim.

The DP ECU/open airbox/ZARD combination introduced some issues.
The "tuner" (importer of ECU) said because of stepper motor, idle could not be set under 1500rpm.
For awhile Idle rpm would be random, 1500 to 3000rpm, averaging around 2000rpm. 
It now sits around 1500/1700rpm.

The DP ECU made a  change in throttle responsiveness.
There is a still random pop/fart but now happens when banging  down the gears at high rpm.
The improvements are probably not worth a $1850 ECU
With or without ECU it is easy to ride, a smooth delivery of power ( the 14t front sprocket helps)

I got my system from Desmoworks (a DMF sponsor), cost around AU$1700 (including delivery) and customs/gst added about $300.
That was 18 months ago, exchange rates have been up and down since then.

what bike is this on mate?

paul.

Loonydude, I think it is an S2R1000 as mentioned by Trev above.

Very interesting info. 748! I have never bothered with all the closed loop discussions on the main board ... one becasue it doesn't concern my modest little 800 and two, because it's all beyond my very limited mechanical knowledge.

I have also been told that the OzMo versions are difference to the Septic versions, so it may be mostly irrelevant anyway.

If my mate has the same experience as 748, at least it gives him more options ... could get expensive if it does work though.

Sidenote: 748, is it possible that the random flatulence could be fixed by a better tune/tuner with the DP ECU?

Making sure exhaust noise is ACTUALLY coming from the bikes??  [laugh]  [cheeky]  [thumbsup]  ;)

More Mex!! More beans !! More Brrrrrpppp !!  :o

What's all this Green Smoke?  [evil].

I'd agree regarding the closed loop discussions...the septics have different ecu for their catalytic converters. Every one takes in metric, they go the imperial! everyone goes celcius they go farhenheit, everyone gets a political leader, they go bush (rectified now!).

the 'tuner' is a vital link in the operation! I can verify THAT. eh, ah, Brad Black Inc., ahem....  :)



Betty, other than trying to 'save' your friend...mate I'm so desperate I make 'brom, brom' noises when I ride my pushy to work...I sit at the lights trying to sound like a 'can of bolts' to replicate the clutch!

put some ducati stickers on your bike , bloody hurry up and buy a bike your driving us all mad  [cheeky]

2007 S2R1000


I've come to the conclusion that we've been beta testers for the closed loop/cat systems used from 2007 on the S2R1000's. I'm sure Ducati have got a lot of free data to improve future bikes.
The thread on closed loop is tough going, I'm no genius in air/electric/fuel systems. Brad Black has some good articles on this stuff, can't recall if he has a solution yet. Re better tuners, I was going to wait until the 12,000km service was due and see if Ron (flywheels) could do anything with it.

I'm not prolific in that department so I got iFart for my iPhone, hours of fun.


I've heard there are Euro (we get the Euro) and USA versions of the DP ECU. I've also heard there are 2 versions of the Euro ECU, one for a full system and one for slip ons.
I'm too lazy to bother checking.
My DP ECU part number is,  D96517406B ECU X RAIS.SIDE. SI. MSR1000, if anyone is interested.

I'll drop the stock ECU/airbox in next weekend and do some more comparisons with DP ECU/open airbox (long time since I did it).

I knew I should have done fuel injection at school instead of wasting my time on english, history and stuff like that.

I'll take yours over winter then instead of putting it in storage! Thanks brother!

thats fine you can wear out the parts of the tyres i dont use , the centre  but do you know how to treat a lady  ;D

spider - i could loan you a 750 engined 600.  apart from the fact the last time i rode it it stopped several times with what i'm guessing is a fuel tap or pump issue.  and the only bling it has is a rack and accident (well, crash really) damage.  i'd fit the megacycle mufflers too if you asked nicely so it'd be more manly sounding. [laugh]  where's the nelson "point and laugh" little thingy when you need it.

altho i'm not sure if it is insured.  definitely registered.

back to topic - i'm hoping to be able to offer ecu reflashed with dp maps when i get going.  i'm going to buy up a few and have them done so i can have them on the shelf, the actual flashing happens over seas.  not sure how accurate the map would end up being with a full system, etc, but being open loop should help a whole lot.

i can tell you who bought the remaining moto one header pipes if he wanted one of them with say staintunes as opposed to a full system.  a polished header and staintunes would look quite nice on a black one if he likes stainless.  they go a nice gold after a good dyno session too.  it'll be loud too.

Hey Brad this is great news..... And to assist the cause I have a standard ECU out of a 2007 S4RT that I am willing to donate to you for playing with.

I have the DP ECU installed and love it so this one longer required. PM me your address if you want it and it's yours.......

I have an 06 S2R1K with 16500k's.
Has a Spark midpipe and runs like a pregnant pig below 2500rpm.
Is almost unrideable below 40KPH due to surging. I have to slip the clutch in 1st at 30KPH ish speeds.
From 2500 to about 3500 rpm is OK but lumpy, doesn't bother me, I like character.
At 4000 to 8000 it is silky smooth and stunning to ride. Another 20HP would be perfect.

Lowering the gearing is not a solution as the fuel range is poor enough and I enjoy not having to tap dance every few seconds on the gear lever. I find the stock gearing fine for open road twisties.

Since all my riding is weekend open road twisty riding its liveable and mostly a lot of fun.
I have been waiting for 2 years for a PCIII or something else to solve this as I cannot afford the $4000 for DP TErmy solution.
Have contemplated selling and going back to Jap, but still hanging in there.
I see Monstermash in USA is offering ECU flashing. Maybe this is who Brad B is refering to.
I'm waiting to see if this is my savior.

Personally I thinks its a disgrace that Ducati releases poorly fueled bikes to Production.
I have a mate who owns a 1098S and its suffers similar fueling issues.

DOn't get me wrong as I love this bike, but it could be lot better without having to contribute more to the boys at Bologna just to get it running right in the first place.

g,day peter,
about bloody time you got here! ;D

paul.

I'm sorry Paul you must have me mistaken for that bloke who you never seem to be able to ride with these days  [laugh]

ive had great sucsess with chiping air temp censor and people  here that ive helped are more than happy with the results and even in septic land http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=13313.0

Howdy all.

Staintunes look and sound well, mine has the noise baffles in at the moment..just noice.
Moto One mid pipe also look the goods, even though my bike is the 800, I've seen both.
It also clears all the drain plugs. [thumbsup]
I had the front header pipe polished as well.
As for tuning, FIM ECU, you won't look back.

Spider, if Santa left a 999 under your Xmas tree you'd be out on it straight away.....Then again if I was Santa I'd leave you the reindeer and take the 999!!!!!

Cherrio.

Alf.H.

Unfortunately they are still trying to get an ECU to work with the stepper motor on closed loop systems (last time I checked anyway).
Had an ultimap chip in a 748, it was great.

To refresh my memory, put the stock ECU and stock airbox on the bike this morning and rode it for approx 40km
(using ZARD full system the zard has an opening for the o2 sensor to screw in, stock ECU would activate the sensor)
*Start from cold.
*idle at 1200rpm
*smooth delivery of power from idle up.
*trailing throttle, pops/farts 4 to 5 times then stops poping as rpm drops
*80kmph in 6th gear = 3500rpm
*Engine temp at end 107c


Then dropped in DP ECU and open airbox, same 40km route
(using ZARD full system,  the DP ECU ignores the o2 sensor)
*Start from engine temp at 50celcius (couldn't wait for it to go to 0 celcius)
*idle at 1500rpm (for some reason today it stays at 1500rpm)
*smooth delivery of power from idle up.
*trailing throttle, have to be hard on it to get one pop, (happens randomly)
*80kmph in 6th gear = 3000rpm
*engine temp at end 101c (though ambient temp may have started to drop at this time)

Thanks 748. I think I understand, the DP ECU helps but isn't perfect.

Sooo, with the DP ECU you have more beans but less flatulence  ;D

Hi, am I missing something?
Was there a gearing change too?

*80kmph in 6th gear = 3500rpm
*80kmph in 6th gear = 3000rpm

Cheers

Madalf.

your o2 censor wont work properly unless the cat is there

that was going to be my question too!
wtf????

paul.

No gearing change.
If someone could explain why the lower RPM with DP ECU I would be grateful
Same section of road, (flat) same speed, different RPM (Ran over the section several times....same result).

WTF indeed!


Yeah more beans. Feels more responsive. ZARD with stock ECU feels.....not as sharp.
My major problem with the DP ECU with the full ZARD system is varying idle rpm.
It appears to have settled down to 1500-1900 range.

Too many mysteries with this S2R ECU business.
Maybe time for another bike.

the sensor is upstream of the cat, so it makes no difference if the cat is there or not.

and just think....the frickin thing was perfect from 03 till 05 in the M1000, then they use the same bloody engine in the s2r and the thing is like a science experiment!

(I've heard the 06 is the pick of the litter) !?&^%

I don't even know what a stepper motor is...but for f*ck sake it sounds like it causes a far whack of problems!

its not on mine or the others ive worked on its in cat