I am pondering the idea of starting a company that supplies metric tools for Ducati Riders.
These would be the most common tools used to do basic jobs and maintainenece on your bike.
Having worked in the industry several years ago and seen what crappy hand tools people have I wondered would there be a need to supply decent ,well made hand tools that will last.I would not sell craftsman as i deem them to be crap, but more like Snap on, Mac, Matco or Proto.
I could put a basic kit together that would last you a lifetime and would probably run around $3-400.00 or so.
Bear in mind I purchased my first set of hard tip snap on screw drivers when I arrived in this country 23 years ago and still use them every day............
Looking for feedback on this, no slagging me about price. etc I am after more of a positive feedback to see if it is worth my while.
Good quality tools feel good in your hand, get the job done, fit, don't break dont round off etc.
I have found that ratchets with metric hex bits are the best way to remove most of the fasteners on my bike coupled with the correct metric wrenches for nuts/bolts .
For the person male or female that wants to work on their own bike it'll be a good investment.
Let me know!
I am a professional auto technician by trade. Most of my tools are Snap-On with some Matco and Mac thrown in. I don't have any cheap tools in my tool box. Its frustrating when a tool fails halfway through a job or fails and causes damage to a fastener or part. Buy quality tools and the chances of this happening are quite a bit less.
Sounds like a great idea, would be good to be able to buy a good set of tools from one place without having a who;e bunch of extras. I'd buy a set.
I would be happy to buy a set. (I do electronic design work and always buy Fluke meters and Tektronix o-scopes) I hate cheap tools. While you're at it you could sell replacement fastener sets. I know there are places like tastynuts.com etc. But it is difficult to know exactly what is needed for each individual Ducati model.
One more thing would be some good quality calipers and micrometers.
One note about pricing. You are always going to get people who will say "I can go buy all this on my own for less" Just like the people who pregnant dog about dealers pricing. Try to ignore them
good luck
Honestly, it depends on who you're trying to sell to -- newbie wrenchers or experienced wrenchers who need simple tools for a Duc. The problem is that I think most people who are going to buy tools like Mac or Snap-On, they'll want more than just a metric set tailored to a Ducati. For folks who don't already have a tool kit or only have a $30 kit they bought at Walmart and are looking for a basic toolkit to wrench on their Duc , they don't need (and won't appreciate) Snap-On type tools. The people who fall into neither of those categories might not be enough to justify your time in putting together and selling those kits.
I know folks that use tools all the time love Snap On and Mac. They should. The quality of those tools is far superior to the cheaper stuff. But frankly, they're overkill for the average Duc owner wrenching in his garage. I generally use Craftsman tools for anything that is needs some precision (sockets, allens, torque wrench etc) and cheaper tools for other stuff. If you wrench a decent amount, you save money, time and frustation in the long run with Snap On, but they're such a big initial investment, I'm not sure they're worth it for most people.
But don't let me discourage you. The idea of a ready-to-go toolkit is great. I just don't think it needs to be or should be Snap-On quality. Someguy (aka somebastid aka Mr. Incredible aka whatever-his-name-is-two-years-from-now) did a Tutorial on how to stock a basic tool kit (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=12262.msg209918#msg209918). I assume that's kinda what you are talking about.
You might want to look into Cornwell tools. I was an Audi Technician and had Matco, Mac, Snap-on, and Craftsman.
Quality wise Cornwell is very similar to the big boys but a good deal cheaper. They were my favorites to work with.
Sounds like a good idea you might want to provide bike stands too [thumbsup] good stands are way to $$$ but a set of tools I would be down to get, you can never have to many tools.
I think Spidey is on the right track with target audience....I am also a Snap-On/BluePoint guy for the most part with a couple specific Craftsman or other tools in my Matco toolbox (like the occasional cheap Chrome Vanadium wrench I would pick up to specifically bend and mold or otherwise modify and reshape to a particular task only)...I think as a suggestion that alot of guys don't have, would be a good complete roadside toolkit...not something for everyday wrenching, but something that your target audience might buy, but also the guys like us whom have commented thus far who might pick it up to have as an on the road usage kit for to keep in the tailbag/tankbag/or other storage compenent. Something that would be or need no more room than what the Sargent underseat storage tube would hold as a target scope of size...I would prefer not to have to repurchase some of my tools just to keep in my tailbag for on the road use only as that isn't exactly cost effective to me....but might consider something like this for exactly that use.
I think it is a good idea, but putting a piece by piece kit together out of a snap-on catalog is going to be more than 300-400$ - hell, a 3/8 drive ratchet runs over $100 alone.
I used to buy only snap-on, but now with less wrenching + more diverse projects, some crapsman and autozone stuff has found its way into my box. You don't need the snap-on name to find good tools, but it is a guaranty. The other brands, you might have to do some trial and error to find if they are good or not. A lot of the craftsman wrenches and sockets I have bought and received as gifts do not fit the fasteners like my snap-on.
I think there is also a market for a complete ducati tool set, built with aftermarket weird tools, like the castle sockets, pulley holders, crank turning tool, etc.
mitt
Could be a tough call, as with guys who are mechanically minded would have a good tool kit and just buy the odd special tool to suit the job. When I read the title I thought of a small carry bag tool kit, to me that would handy as I hate pulling my good tool set apart and toss in a bag when I go I a trip.
Now if someone made a good carry on the road tool kit, with good gear etc that would be more 'sellable'? than a big workshop type kit as even guys with all the gear would buy I think?? a good carry bag tool kit so they don't have to break up there good set???
Another idea maybe to sell as well?
I have a mix of a lot of stuff.
Mainly Craftsman, but some snap on, some mac, cornwell, and a bunch of S&K stuff as well.
Worked for 4 years as a pro-wrench in a dealership and at/with a race team. Some made fun of the craftsman stuff, but you know what ? My sockets/ratchets and box all combined cost half of what some of a small snap on box cost. Never saw the point in overspending just to have the name. Who's laughing when I do the same job, but I've got 20K more in my pocket (or 20K less in debit to some tool truck) [thumbsup]
TO be honest, I've had more problems doing warranty exchange for snap on and mac tools than I've ever had with Craftsman. It's been awhile since I've broken ANY tool though, and generally speaking, if you use the correct tool for the job, you won't have much breakage either.
I have had only one socket split in my life and that was Snap On.
I 'inherited' some Craftsman wrenches and they became my wrench of choice, I dislike the oval section of the snap on wrenches which tend to hurt my hands, the flat sides of the craftsman's are much more comfortable.
I am now using Teng
With Snap On, you are paying for the name.
Quote from: TAftonomos on December 26, 2008, 03:15:00 PM
TO be honest, I've had more problems doing warranty exchange for snap on and mac tools than I've ever had with Craftsman. It's been awhile since I've broken ANY tool though, and generally speaking, if you use the correct tool for the job, you won't have much breakage either.
I've never broken a tool either, but I have rounded off a lot of fasteners with ill fitting / poorly machined tools. The casual user has a higher probability of doing this. I first starting wrenching in 1970 on my first bike a 305 honda superhawk. I got pretty good with the e-z out, lots of practice. I have never been a pro, but I used to supplement my $138 / month Navy income tuning bikes and cars
I really notice it now, especially with hex key (allen) wrenches. I'd love to find an accurate strong set
Quote from: dbran1949 on December 26, 2008, 04:55:02 PM
I really notice it now, especially with hex key (allen) wrenches. I'd love to find an accurate strong set
I use S&K's for my hex ends, whether it be on a rachet/extension, or T Handle. The S&K's come with a nice little case they sit in. The high dollar SO T handles I've got had a plastic bag (bleh) that they came in. $5 on ebay found me a T handle organizer.
Its like anything else really, you only get what you pay for.
Would your wife or girlfriend be happy to buy you a set of tools specific for your bike?
Would you be happy if she gave that to you as a gift ?
Would you use the tools for other projects around the garge?
Would you buy a specific set knowing that you could accomplish basic jobs knowing that half way thru , you did not have to go to the store to find the tool that will fit?
Metric is the global standard.Why not invest in something that you can have forever?
How many of you work on your own bike doing projects such as fitting new triples, brakes caliper swap outs, removing your own wheels and fitting new tyres, valve adjustments, not to mention trying to get the bloody oil screen out when its oil change time etc
I have probably about 12-15 tools that I commonly use for working on my bike and that has given me the idea...........
I like the idea of an on the road kit, as these bikes will rattle themselves to death if fasteners are not loctited. Good suggestion guys! [clap]
Thanks for the responses and feedback , keep them coming. [thumbsup]
Squid,
start small and make a good brand name and keep them high quality.
don't over extend yourself and don't be afraid to use other brand tools in your kits.
i like the idea of a mechanic's kit
- axle tool (made by ducati)
- spark plug tester (one of those in-line light jobs, $2 at harbor freight)
- belt tension tool
- clutch tool (not the motion pro job, get old clutch plates and bolt them together and weld on a rod)
- chain alignment tool (a laser on a magnet)
- maybe a metric kit of all the sockets and hex heads on the bike? (might be cheaper to just buy sets?)
a road kit is a good idea. but start small and see how it goes. no one will fault you for making good tools one at a time.
Quote from: squidwood on December 26, 2008, 10:54:14 AM
Looking for feedback on this, no slagging me about price. etc I am after more of a positive feedback to see if it is worth my while.
If all you want is positive feedback, how will you address the negatives?
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 26, 2008, 09:15:06 PM
If all you want is positive feedback, how will you address the negatives?
i read that as constructive criticism, but i may be wrong.
Yes, constructive critisism is what is best.
Basically what I wanted to know is there enough of a demand for this .
There is no more to read into it than that.
As far as stands go, I think you are all better off buying a pitbull from your local dealership and taking it home in your car.
Handtools are very unlikely to be damaged in transit and if I ship thru USPS Priority mail , I can send up to 70 lbs in one box for under $10.00 anywhere in the lower 48.Thats a great deal for you guys!!
Quote from: squidwood on December 27, 2008, 02:41:08 PM
As far as stands go, I think you are all better off buying a pitbull from your local dealership and taking it home in your car.
i have 2 pitbulls and they are great but they are absurdly overbuilt, not that thats a bad thing, but i have seen home-made stands using angle iron and bolts which work great and last long time.
I like this, packs a lot of punch and is easy to carry. But hard to find
http://www.amazon.com/Wilton-Tool-30101-Drive-Socketstick/dp/B00006IIO2 (http://www.amazon.com/Wilton-Tool-30101-Drive-Socketstick/dp/B00006IIO2)
Quote from: squidwood on December 27, 2008, 02:41:08 PM
Yes, constructive critisism is what is best.
Basically what I wanted to know is there enough of a demand for this .
There is no more to read into it than that.
As far as stands go, I think you are all better off buying a pitbull from your local dealership and taking it home in your car.
Handtools are very unlikely to be damaged in transit and if I ship thru USPS Priority mail , I can send up to 70 lbs in one box for under $10.00 anywhere in the lower 48.Thats a great deal for you guys!!
My concern would be what I see as a terribly limited market. I'm assuming as these are Ducati specific tools, they're probably some of the ones that are duc specific. That says to me it would not be for simple mods such as rotating handlebars and removing mirrors.
So, specific tools for the more in depth jobs (fyi, I may be
totally misunderstanding this). So-who would need the nifty doohickeys to change a dry clutch or do a valve job? Maybe someone familiar with wrenching, but new to ducs (not terribly uncommon). I would be someone who's mechanically very able with no duc specific tools.
Except I would just run down to my local Sears (Snap-on makes great tools-but I figure doing the warranty thing would suck-ain't no stores nearby (that I know of) and Sears is everywhere), and pick up what I felt I needed. Barring being able to find the right things, I would make them.
That's how I see it, anyways.
Ok let me say here again what I was thinking of doing.
I propose to sell common sized metric tools that fit 99% of the metric fasteners on your motorcycle.
The tools would be high quality.
To make it easy you would buy a kit that contains what you need,nothing more nothing less.
You would not need to buy say a set of six hex sockets when you only need 3 sizes.
I would only sell the 3 sizes you need to fit the fasteners on your bike.
I think that some people here have misunderstood my intentions.
Quote from: squidwood on December 27, 2008, 10:55:02 PM
Ok let me say here again what I was thinking of doing.
I propose to sell common sized metric tools that fit 99% of the metric fasteners on your motorcycle.
The tools would be high quality.
To make it easy you would buy a kit that contains what you need,nothing more nothing less.
You would not need to buy say a set of six hex sockets when you only need 3 sizes.
I would only sell the 3 sizes you need to fit the fasteners on your bike.
I think that some people here have misunderstood my intentions.
so these wouldbe the same things one could get at Autozone, but just the sizes for the Ducati?
honestly, I don't think that would do THAT well since people who wrench tend to like having a full set of tools, and people who would want a set of tools like this aren't wrenchers, if that makes sense.
i know i have 2-3 sets of sockets.. well, maybe four if you count the splined set. and those hex key sets run about 5-6 bucks for a whole set from Lowes, and i lose them all the time (esp the ones i use on teh bikes.. argh)
Quote from: ducatizzzz on December 28, 2008, 05:47:25 AMhonestly, I don't think that would do THAT well since people who wrench tend to like having a full set of tools, and people who would want a set of tools like this aren't wrenchers, if that makes sense.
I agree.
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t180/bobspapa/002.jpg?t=1230481976)
got this for my son (who has no tools) at Costco for 90 bucks (and yes I know that this is not going where the thread was intended, I just thought it was a great deal for somebody who happens to be tool-less)
it has a great mix of SAE and metric pieces
Quote from: somegirl on December 28, 2008, 07:20:45 AM
I agree.
I think it depends.
The intention here is not to replace a cheap/good set of tools but to produce a specific set for a specific job (if I've understood correctly). This is classic niche marketing. People pay for things that are unique and high quality (like all of us). It would also make a kick a** gift for your fellow metric bike owner.
I actually have three sets of tools - home/bicycle, car and bike. I might not be first in line for this but depending on how it looked/useful, I'd be very interested.
Something like this?
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm143/Tarugo996/lom3.jpg)
I wouldn't buy them.
Crastman doesn't make the best tool in the world -- but they work 95% of the time for me.
And when they goto shit, I can walk to a Sears and get a replcaement that day.
Most the time I take the tool in, grab a new one, hand the cashier my old one, and the deal is done.
Their warrenty is the easiest.
I have a growing set of Snap On's but when one goes to shit, I just can't go replace it any day of the week...
Quote from: metallimonster on December 26, 2008, 12:07:40 PM
You might want to look into Cornwell tools. I was an Audi Technician and had Matco, Mac, Snap-on, and Craftsman.
Quality wise Cornwell is very similar to the big boys but a good deal cheaper. They were my favorites to work with.
+1 on the Cornwell.
Make the tools and they will come.
Quote from: Capo on December 29, 2008, 01:39:35 AM
Something like this?
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm143/Tarugo996/lom3.jpg)
that's what i thought too, but i think he is saying non-specific items like hex wrenches and sockets.
i would love a kit like that for pantah ducatis..
I'd be interested. i now have four incomplete sets of hex keys--two or three of The One Size are now shot. I just got a nice new fifth set for Chrstimas, metric and traditional, in a big ol' roll when I really just need the requisite sizes in a little roll. Loose, they get knocked up, misplaced, or rusty.
As for model-specific tools, sometimes they market themselves. The oil change FAQ for my first bike, written over five years ago at the time, mentioned an "Al Jesse Thingy" and had a url where it could be purchased. I called the number, and the person who answered the phone knew exactly what I was talking about, and didn't even let me finish my apology for calling out of the blue on a Saturday to ask for a "Thingy."
I'm usually of the "you get what you pay for" persuasion when it comes to tools as well.
But I'm also of the, "I'm a weekend wrench that enjoys tinkering on my bike, but leaves the serious stuff(read:internal workings of motor/gearbox) up to the pros at my dealership.
That being said, NO, you won't see a Snap-On or MAC truck pulling up to my duplex in suburbia where i live with my grandmother. When i want a quality tool that i know is worth my money, I go where the reputation, and indeed the warranty are. Craftsman. My grandfather worked on printing and bindery machinery with Craftsman for 50+ years, my father worked on cars and the machinery at the shop with Craftsman, and by damn it's been good enough for my needs up to this point.
On the other hand, this doesn't mean that if i see a great deal on some expensive tools, that I'm not going to bite. My brother beat me to the punch on a a set of $500 ratcheting 12-points from SnapOn that one of his employees was selling for $300. These things are sweet, and i love using them while we work on his TransAm. I have noticed, as previously stated, that the tools are sort of "pointed" on the long edge of the handle, and they do HURT when exerting yourself upon them.
I'm also the guy that's willing to give the cheaper brands a chance too. Sears is now marketing (to the yuppies i guess, i bit because im a graphic designer and can't resist cool packaging) a brand of tools under the name "Evolv." They are home-owner tools, for the occassional tool user. But they have a set of Allen/Hex Sockets in their lineup. And at 9.99 ($30 cheaper than even craftsman) i had to give them a shot. The quality looks identical to Craftsman, and they even have a lifetime warranty. I'll keep you guys posted on how they work out.
Link: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00910058000P
i have a very good line up of tools from all the big manufactures: snap on, mac, matco, cornwell, s&k, craftsmen, ect. i also have a ton of the cheap japanise stuff it all suits a purpose.
that being said are you a dealer that can cut us some kinda break on these "quality tools" or just had a good idea?
i would like to see a little more detailed list of what your looking at putting in this kit before i would say that it would be a good deal or not because knowing my luck id have the one tool thats supposed to work but not something to fix the thing that i was using the tool on [bang]
Quote from: tcspeedfreak on January 02, 2009, 06:04:23 PM
i have a very good line up of tools from all the big manufactures: snap on, mac, matco, cornwell, s&k, craftsmen, ect. i also have a ton of the cheap japanise stuff it all suits a purpose.
cheap japanese stuff??
all the japanese-made tools i've seen in the last 10 years were light-years better quality than all the ones you listed.
if you want crap tools nowadays, gotta go to India or China.
Kanon makes some of the best tools I've seen -- but you better pony up some $$$$$ for them
what i ment by that was all those cheap tools that you can buy at menards, northern tool, harbor freight, ect. wasnt really pointing the finger at any one country of manufacture just the cheap stuff
Quote from: ducatizzzz on December 29, 2008, 05:56:24 PM
that's what i thought too, but i think he is saying non-specific items like hex wrenches and sockets.
i would love a kit like that for pantah ducatis..
+1 - that is the type of all encompassing Duc specific kit that I think would sell great if you could sell it for $500 or less. As far as common sockets go, there are 3 stores within 2 miles of my house that carries common tools.
mitt
Quote from: tcspeedfreak on January 03, 2009, 08:58:20 AM
what i ment by that was all those cheap tools that you can buy at menards, northern tool, harbor freight, ect. wasnt really pointing the finger at any one country of manufacture just the cheap stuff
Like tizz said - now-a-days, made in Japan is a sign of prestige. Check out audio / video equipment and the premium MiJ carries.
If you are looking at harbor freight, then that is probably made in low end China. China also has the ability to make world class equipment too.
mitt
Quote from: mitt on January 04, 2009, 10:36:52 AM
+1 - that is the type of all encompassing Duc specific kit that I think would sell great if you could sell it for $500 or less. As far as common sockets go, there are 3 stores within 2 miles of my house that carries common tools.
mitt
i think you could do it for a LOT less than $500.
I have half of the tools shown below and buying them one-off has run me about $175. i bet you could sell them for around $350 and make a good bit of cash.. plenty of foundries listing services on Alibaba.com
(http://www.bevelheaven.com/manuals/750F1-parts/images/scan0002a.jpg)
I am not a snap on dealer or a tool dealer in any way.
I have worked in the industry though as a mechanic for Suzuki.I stared with craftsman tools and found them to be bulky and poorly made.I replaced pretty much all the tools I used on a daily basis with better quality ones.I too have broken sockets.That was because I used them incorrectly by having a hand tool socket on an impact wrentch when i WAS IN hurry.Impact sockets have a black finsih. The pretty ,shiny ones, are for hand use only with a ratchet.
I have also helped friend work on their bikes in their garages and it has been my experience that most bike owners visit harbor freight or craftsman at some point and buy tools.That stuff is crap imo and it is common to either round head off the fasteners or break the tool itself.
If you have a tool that is delivered by a visiting truck and you need it replaced, try this.Go on line and send an e mail of the problem.Let them know where you live.Someone will call you.You can then make arrangements to drop the broken tool off at a mechanic shop and the dealer will trade it out.Then on your way home pick up your new tool.
I have done this before, and everyone is cool about it.
I plan to put a set together soon and will list what you get and how much it will cost.I will not be using tools that i know are inferior and this will not be cheap.
Buy better stuff you can keep for years that will not break you will be money ahead.
BTW hitting tools with hammers etc is not a good idea unless they are flogging wrenches.Most of those start at huge sizes and totally un-necessary to work on a motorcycle with.When working on your bike, take your time, think about what you are doing .
Two nights ago I was with 2 friends and we had a 998 apart in under 1.5 hours, from a complete bike to just a motor sitting on his bench.It was easy to do because we had everything we needed.
I only read the first page of replies, so many, if not all, of my thoughts may have been covered.
Firstly I agree with the person who said that the average Ducati owner/wrencher does not do enough wrenching to justify a Snap-On price vrs the Craftsman quality/price.
That said though, I'm quite sure that you would sell your product if marketed well. Many MC owners (not just exclusively Ducati owners) would jump at the chance to own a set of quality tools pulled together for their specific brand/model of motorcycle.
Good advertising and proper marketing would go a long way toward success. IMO a well made tool carrier/organizer to hold the tools would be a major plus. Personally I am forever using tools in different places and for various tasks and just can not find the tool I am looking for, for a particular job. A quality case would be an esential part of any bike specific, quality tool kit.
Good Luck, give it a shot...........
Quote from: Old-Duckman on January 05, 2009, 01:03:32 PM. IMO a well made tool carrier/organizer to hold the tools would be a major plus. Personally I am forever using tools in different places and for various tasks and just can not find the tool I am looking for, for a particular job. A quality case would be an esential part of any bike specific, quality tool kit.
Good Luck, give it a shot...........
It is for that reason I use tools from these guys http://www.tengtools.com/default.aspx (http://www.tengtools.com/default.aspx)
They have a modular tray system with molded inserts for all manner of tools, real easy to keep tidy and to know if anything is missing.
I find them to be of good quality and reasonably priced. I'm not sure if you can get them in the USA
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm143/Tarugo996/Capture_00020.jpg)
You could probably offer a couple of grades of tools, besides the special Ducati only tools. Perhaps a good track day Kit or Kit's could be offered as well. but Some of the kits could have the less expensive craftsman tools in them.
Almost all the craftsman tools I have I bought in the mid 80's and the only thing that ever broke was the 1/4 drive ratchet gears. (replaced under warranty) This stuff is just fine. and I'm sure lots of peeps will think so too. Then you could offer an upgrade to Box van tools as well. I have some Snap on & Mac stuff in my kit. I broke a Mac 1/4 drive fine tooth ratchet, sent it in to mac and never heard another thing about it. Ended up buying a similar, but not identical one from Snap On. I generally only pop for the more specialized tools from Snap on if I cant get it from the store, or if they have something that's the bomb like the $40 ratcheting screwdriver with pre-bent handle I have.
So offer both. I think Craftsman is just as good as the box van stuff for less than half the price, and warranty is easier.
Quote from: squidwood on January 04, 2009, 11:24:59 AM
I am not a snap on dealer or a tool dealer in any way.
I have worked in the industry though as a mechanic for Suzuki.I stared with craftsman tools and found them to be bulky and poorly made.I replaced pretty much all the tools I used on a daily basis with better quality ones.I too have broken sockets.That was because I used them incorrectly by having a hand tool socket on an impact wrentch when i WAS IN hurry.Impact sockets have a black finsih. The pretty ,shiny ones, are for hand use only with a ratchet.
I have also helped friend work on their bikes in their garages and it has been my experience that most bike owners visit harbor freight or craftsman at some point and buy tools.That stuff is crap imo and it is common to either round head off the fasteners or break the tool itself.
If you have a tool that is delivered by a visiting truck and you need it replaced, try this.Go on line and send an e mail of the problem.Let them know where you live.Someone will call you.You can then make arrangements to drop the broken tool off at a mechanic shop and the dealer will trade it out.Then on your way home pick up your new tool.
I have done this before, and everyone is cool about it.
I plan to put a set together soon and will list what you get and how much it will cost.I will not be using tools that i know are inferior and this will not be cheap.
Buy better stuff you can keep for years that will not break you will be money ahead.
BTW hitting tools with hammers etc is not a good idea unless they are flogging wrenches.Most of those start at huge sizes and totally un-necessary to work on a motorcycle with.When working on your bike, take your time, think about what you are doing .
Two nights ago I was with 2 friends and we had a 998 apart in under 1.5 hours, from a complete bike to just a motor sitting on his bench.It was easy to do because we had everything we needed.
I completely disassembled my bike, down to bare frame, and put it back together with these crappy Craftsman type tools you speak of. And I never had a problem and didn't feel the need for a specific set. As long as your tools are neatly organized, then you should be able to find a 12mm socket that is 1 out 50 just as fast as finding one that is only 1 out of 10.
Craftsman tools might not be great for everyday use, but I have used them a lot and haven't had a single problem out of them. I've used plenty of Husky tools from Home Depot as well and never had a problem from them. And Craftsmans has a lifetime warranty.
Comparing Craftsman and Harbor Freight doesn't make sense. That shit from Harbor Freight is good for travel. You lose a wrench out of the set, you just throw the set away and get another one.
But if could manage to get the Ducati logo put on these, then they would probably sell. I think you could sell a turd if it had the Ducati logo on it.
Quote from: Jobu on January 06, 2009, 07:24:49 PM
I think you could sell a turd if it had the Ducati logo on it.
what a great idea!!
(http://www.iconarchive.com/icons/iconicon/shiny-smiley/cha-ching-128x128.png)
Quote from: Jobu on January 06, 2009, 07:24:49 PM
I've used plenty of Husky tools from Home Depot as well and never had a problem from them. And Craftsmans has a lifetime warranty.
Some of the Husky stuff is excellent -- I bought a set of Husky wrenches, from 6 mm up to 30mm. They are slim, polished and grip beautifully and have a lifetime warranty, same as the Craftsman. Although, I don't know if they still sell this particular set (oops). I bought them in a pinch when I needed something quick (tool box was in another state) and ended up liking them better than the Mac spanners I have.
Quote from: Jobu on January 06, 2009, 07:24:49 PM
I've used plenty of Husky tools from Home Depot as well and never had a problem from them.
When I think of Husky tools, I think of this.
(http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/1191001_lg.gif)
+
(http://www.vannattabros.com/20073rd/chainsaw2.jpg)
Quote from: Jobu on January 06, 2009, 07:24:49 PM
I completely disassembled my bike, down to bare frame, and put it back together with these crappy Craftsman type tools you speak of. And I never had a problem and didn't feel the need for a specific set. But if could manage to get the Ducati logo put on these, then they would probably sell.
I don't think this is the point the OP was trying to make. I've made repairs with a vice grip and a piece of wire I cut from a barbed wire fence. But I like nice stuff, if it's unique all the better (we all ride Ducati). I like to cook. I have cooked over at friend's houses and used their "craftsman" cookware and "husky" knives and got the job done. But at home I use my Shun knives and All Clad cookware
Quote from: Jobu on January 06, 2009, 07:24:49 PM
I think you could sell a turd if it had the Ducati logo on it.
[thumbsup] That's the point. hmmm.... I need to see if I can get a laser etched Ducati logo on my All Clad
Quote from: dbran1949 on January 07, 2009, 09:53:45 AM
I don't think this is the point the OP was trying to make. I've made repairs with a vice grip and a piece of wire I cut from a barbed wire fence. But I like nice stuff, if it's unique all the better (we all ride Ducati). I like to cook. I have cooked over at friend's houses and used their "craftsman" cookware and "husky" knives and got the job done. But at home I use my Shun knives and All Clad cookware
[thumbsup] That's the point. hmmm.... I need to see if I can get a laser etched Ducati logo on my All Clad
No way he will be able to source Snap-On parts with the Duc logo on them. I was just saying people buy Ducati crap.
And nothing he is planning on selling is unique. But if he can sell it to people who feel they need stuff that a full time mechanic would buy, then good. It is a free market after all. But I don't know if one can put a set of mechanics grade tools together for $400, especially if you include rachets and wrenches. And what about a torque wrench? Someone who needs a special set of tools for his Duc will damn sure need a torque wrench because they will have no concept of how much torque to apply to a 10mm x 1.5 steel bolt in an aluminum case.
I'm just saying that if someone needs a set of sockets and hex wrenches that don't include certain sizes, then they probably have never wrenched before, and they don't need to start now.
Hell, just go read the tech thread and you'll see that some people shouldn't be allowed near tools.
Quote from: Jobu on January 07, 2009, 06:02:32 PM
And what about a torque wrench? Someone who needs a special set of tools for his Duc will damn sure need a torque wrench because they will have no concept of how much torque to apply to a 10mm x 1.5 steel bolt in an aluminum case.
arent those the ones you turn untill you cant anymore then keep going untill they spin free again, then you know their torqued to spec [laugh]
definition of torque........
When you have a ha*d on push down on it until you do a front flip. [laugh]
I can put together a decent set of tools that most people will find useful for working on their bikes for around that price.
I worked on a friends bike yesterday. Trying to replace the rear wheel's bearings with out a set of snap ring pliers to remove the snap ring would have been difficult.I have several sets. My friend has none.
The wheel was off the bike for a new tire fitment anyway, so from start to finish the job of removing the old bearings and fitting the new ones was about 6 minutes. Without the snap ring pliers this job would have been awkward and taken at least a half hour and would most likely involved pinched body parts and blood ,or worse yet, a broken snap ring.I can almost guarantee that this is a part not kept in stock at out local dealer and therefore this job would not be finished until a new one sourced.
Does anyone see the direction where I was aiming for Motorcycle Tool Supply?
As I stated early in this thread, there will always be people who figure they can do it themselves or do it with less expensive / lower quality tools. The logic has always eluded me. If this were true universally no one would by AllClad, or Wustoph, BMW, or Ducati (or name any "high end product") this is a Ducati forum. Anyone who owns one has paid more, than if they would buy the equivalent honsuzkaw.
However you need to give us some idea of what you intend to do if you need some constructive feedback. A little more detail than "Good set of bike specific tools"
end of story
I have an old tool box with something useful and a lot of really bad tools. Threw away most of it. Then I found three old incomplete sets of sockets, bits and wrenches. Add a few grocery bags of worn out tools and you have my equipment.
My wrenching experience is very limited, sometimes I do small jobs with no problems - other times I damage bolt heads and such.
I'm eager to learn and my willingness to try out different small jobs is greater than my tools. If there was a "Ducati" set available for $400 I would buy it - would accept a torque wrench to be extra. Major selling point is that "everything" is in one box - I don't have a garage and must take everything in and out for the smallest job.
I have no problems understanding the experienced guys' scepticisme, but for a noob Monster owner like myself this idea is spot on. Besides, it must be the perfect gift idea. Did you talk to MonsterParts, MotorCycleWishList, MotoWheels to see if they think they could sell it?
Quote from: Jobu on January 07, 2009, 06:02:32 PM
No way he will be able to source Snap-On parts with the Duc logo on them. I was just saying people buy Ducati crap.
Probably not without permission. But he could source Snap On tools with the DMF logo laser etched on them.
Quote from: dbran1949 on January 07, 2009, 09:53:45 AM
I don't think this is the point the OP was trying to make. I've made repairs with a vice grip and a piece of wire I cut from a barbed wire fence. But I like nice stuff, if it's unique all the better (we all ride Ducati). I like to cook. I have cooked over at friend's houses and used their "craftsman" cookware and "husky" knives and got the job done. But at home I use my Shun knives and All Clad cookware
Quote from: Jobu on January 06, 2009, 07:24:49 PM
I completely disassembled my bike, down to bare frame, and put it back together with these crappy Craftsman type tools you speak of. And I never had a problem and didn't feel the need for a specific set. As long as your tools are neatly organized, then you should be able to find a 12mm socket that is 1 out 50 just as fast as finding one that is only 1 out of 10.
Craftsman tools might not be great for everyday use, but I have used them a lot and haven't had a single problem out of them. I've used plenty of Husky tools from Home Depot as well and never had a problem from them. And Craftsmans has a lifetime warranty.
Comparing Craftsman and Harbor Freight doesn't make sense. That shit from Harbor Freight is good for travel. You lose a wrench out of the set, you just throw the set away and get another one.
I don't think that was the point JoBU was trying to make either. Craftsman may not always have the most aesthetically nice looking tools, but they work just fine and are plenty tough & dont strip fasteners, flex etc.
ok here we go
1 12 inch ratchet
1 12 inch extension
I soft hammer
I set of internal/external circlip pliers
1 pair pliers
I pair 45* bend pliers
1 set of dykes
I 18 inch number 2 philips screwdriver
I 6 inch number 1 phillips screwdriver
1 12 inch flat tip screwdriver
1 10 mm shallow 12 point socket
1 12 MM shallow 12 point socket
1 13 mm shallow 12 point socket
1 14 mm shallow 12 point socket
1 8 mm combination wrench
10 mmm combination wrench
1 12 mm cobination wrench
1 14 mm combination wrench
1 4 mm allen socket
1 6 mm allen socket
1 8 mm allen socket
1 14 mm allen socket
I speedymoto rear wheel tool (SSA)
I ducati triple clamp nut tool
I chain breaker
I set spark plug gap tool
I rear real cam adjuster (SSA)
There are other tools to add, but this would be the basic set plus or minus a couple (I would have to determine what the axle nut size is on the pre SSA bikes) but basically this is about all you would need off the top of my head.
A set like this could have been be bought and would for most owners be all that they need to do most service work on their bikes from oil changes to upgrades.
I was not going to offer etched tools, tools that say Ducati or any other bullshit codswallop mentioned here.
I was only trying to find out if there was a need for decent tools so that the monkeys who like to work on their own bikes could.
Please continue to buy your tools from your current suppliers .
I was just trying to help out fellow enthusiasts , but it seems that you are all experts in the field of motorcycle repair and need no help.
BTW did you guys know that the majority of the "great" Craftsman hand tools are made in China? They really are an inferior brand with sloppy tolerances. Thats why the pros don't use them.
I am done with this.
You would not be able to remove the front wheel with this kit.
With regard to 'sloppy' tolerances of craftsman tools, has anyone ever measured this against say Snap On? I suspect this is a myth.
hey squidwood thanks for the effort even if people weren't taking to your idea all that much or otherwise. if i didn't already own 90% of whats on that list i would buy it [thumbsup]
Keep up the good work squidwood [thumbsup]
squid, something tells me the majority of replies you got in this thread that were critical are the DIY types who would not buy a kit like this and there will be plenty of folks who WILL buy it who have nothing to say.
just have a beer and relax [thumbsup]
Quote from: squidwood on January 13, 2009, 05:20:08 AM
There are other tools to add, but this would be the basic set plus or minus a couple (I would have to determine what the axle nut size is on the pre SSA bikes) but basically this is about all you would need off the top of my head.
DSA bikes use either a 17MM or a 22MM nut depending on vintage...
BTW, thank you for the efforts and I wasn't trying to be critical at all...just constructive.
Quote from: Capo on January 13, 2009, 05:29:37 AM
With regard to 'sloppy' tolerances of craftsman tools, has anyone ever measured this against say Snap On? I suspect this is a myth.
Also, wonder how Kobalt, Task Force, and Husky compare too? I've got a toolbox full of Kobalt & Task Force tools. Never had a sloppy fit issue that I could see or feel ~
JM
Or possibly the tool is perfectly within spec and the bolt/allen/nut/etc is a subject of poor tolerance, thus making the tool in question seem off.
Squidwood
Thanks for trying... who knew tools would be like religion and politics
Quote from: the_Journeyman on January 13, 2009, 07:35:11 AM
Also, wonder how Kobalt, Task Force, and Husky compare too? I've got a toolbox full of Kobalt & Task Force tools. Never had a sloppy fit issue that I could see or feel ~
JM
I think the slop that alot of people are referring to is in the ratcheting mechanism...I can feel a definite difference in my ratchets between the cheapo chinese one I found and threw in my box (for to loan out to people) and the Husky one I have and the Snap-On ones I have that I choose to use all the time....less clicks per turn in some of the cheaper mechanisms and the engagement isn't as smooth when switching forward/reverse and so forth...I can go on...but if you don't wrench alot and don't feel or think of these things...then your ignorance of them is pure bliss and you should relish that!