I know there are threads on this stuff all over the forum, but would appreciate some up to date advice from any Ozmonster members, please.
Details: Bike is a 2003 model 620 Sport ie, basically a 620 monster with half fairing and a less comfortable riding position. I do bugger all k's on it, mainly due to family commitments. After its first 1000km service, I have been doing my own servicing every 6 months. This includes oil and filter, check of brake and clutch fluids, lube of other stuff and general once over. Sometimes it may only be 1,000 between these check ups.
So, with 10,000km (but five years) on the dial, I put it into Frasers Wollongong for a "proper" service. I also asked for the belts to be changed, and they advised that given the age of the bike a 20,000 km service was required. They had the bike overnight, and I got it back today. All of the work seems to have been done (as much as I can tell...), and the bill was $1,157...gulp. They also advised that the steering head bearings need to be replaced, and that the belts should be replaced every two years regardless of km travelled.
So, questions:
1. Is $1,200 the going rate for this service? Am I just being a tight arse?
2. Steering head bearings needing replacement after only 10,000km? I have never done wheelies or stoppies on the bike...
3. Belts every two years??
Thanks for any advice offered......
G'day Ducsport
I just had the 20,000km service on my '06 S2R1000 done by Frasers at Concord NSW.
It was $832.00
Yup $1200 sounds right. I'm doing a 40k service on mine (M1000s) this month and looking at that many $$$. I had new belts at 20k and will be getting new belts this time too. But thats only 12 months as I don't have family commitments so I get to ride my bike [laugh]. Bummer about the steering head bearings - bet that's expensive. I've only had mine adjusted in 40k because they were too tight.
1. Is $1,200 the going rate for this service? Am I just being a tight arse?
2. Steering head bearings needing replacement after only 10,000km? I have never done wheelies or stoppies on the bike...
3. Belts every two years??
1. Thats why I do the servicing myself. [roll] You aint a tightarse. [thumbsup]
2. Not impossinle, but I find it a bit strange. ???
3. Correct!! Its actually a very easy job and belts are cheaper from O/S, even with the readjustment of the dollar I reckon. [thumbsup] (See CA-Cycleworks , great Video on changing belts too!! [thumbsup])
I got the belts for my DS and the M750, 2 oil filters and a T shirt cheaper than what the local dealers were going to charge me for just the DS belts. (When the Oz dollar was good but still could be a BIG saving?? [thumbsup] )
$1200 for a 20k service is steep, sorry, it just is. you do get extra stuff done over a 10 but it's only fork oil change, that's it. did the service include changing the steering head bearings? it would make sense, the forks are out for a 20 so from there it's just a simple task to drop the triples and replace the bearings. this by the way is no surprise, to me at least, my 03 S4R needed new ones at about 10 and the old ones were only greased half way round the race. if they weren't i would be asking why not, or at least why they didn't call you, it would have saved duplicating at least an hours labour (and subsequent labour charge, of course!) and yep, belts every 2 years, this is more important on bikes, especially 2 valvers, due to the tight run over a single pulley, that don't do many kays.
paul.
I spoke to Flywheels just before Xmas to get a rough price for 20 000 k service for a 620ie.
They said $8?? ish.
Quote from: tim_golfer2 on December 30, 2008, 11:06:59 PM
I spoke to Flywheels just before Xmas to get a rough price for 20 000 k service for a 620ie.
They said $8?? ish.
that's much more like it.
paul.
oh! g,day tim. [thumbsup]
Hi Paul
Pathetic isn't it. I am getting quotes and I don't even have a bike!
I was in contact with Mattyvas before he went o/s and I am now fighting a very itchy trigger finger hoping to hang out til Oz day when he returns so I can have a look at his bike. Guess I'm just a sucker for the bling!
yeah, the 20k is the killer - and the belts would have been $200 of that. still - a lot of money!
this is the reason guys sell them if they aren't getting used a heap - it's just high maintenance cost if your not putting in the k's
Quote from: tim_golfer2 on December 30, 2008, 11:57:14 PM
Hi Paul
Pathetic isn't it. I am getting quotes and I don't even have a bike!
I was in contact with Mattyvas before he went o/s and I am now fighting a very itchy trigger finger hoping to hang out til Oz day when he returns so I can have a look at his bike. Guess I'm just a sucker for the bling!
nothing wrong with that...you know where it's been, how it's been treated and your riding a bike with confidence that the machine is top of the heap.
the 2 valvers (despite this thread) are a fair bit cheaper than the 4 valvers!
Thanks folks for all of your advice. Really appreciate it.
Quote from: Andy55 on December 30, 2008, 08:40:43 PM
G'day Ducsport
I just had the 20,000km service on my '06 S2R1000 done by Frasers at Concord NSW.
It was $832.00
Thanks Andy, confirms my suspicions.
Quote from: heatherp on December 30, 2008, 08:43:34 PM
.....But thats only 12 months as I don't have family commitments so I get to ride my bike [laugh]. Bummer about the steering head bearings - bet that's expensive. I've only had mine adjusted in 40k because they were too tight.
Think of us poor buggers when you are out riding Heather[thumbsup]Yep the steering head bearings sounded sus to me. I'm gonna have to work out a way to check them myself.
Quote from: dragonworld on December 30, 2008, 09:00:15 PM
1. Thats why I do the servicing myself. [roll] You aint a tightarse. [thumbsup]
2. Not impossinle, but I find it a bit strange. ???
3. Correct!! Its actually a very easy job and belts are cheaper from O/S, even with the readjustment of the dollar I reckon. [thumbsup] (See CA-Cycleworks , great Video on changing belts too!!
Thanks heaps Dragon. I will be doing servicing myself from now onwards. In a past life I built and raced cars, and never had one of my engines fail, so I'm happy to give it a go. The CA-Cycleworks Vids are great [thumbsup]
Quote from: loony888 on December 30, 2008, 10:21:31 PM
$1200 for a 20k service is steep, sorry, it just is. you do get extra stuff done over a 10 but it's only fork oil change, that's it. did the service include changing the steering head bearings? it would make sense, the forks are out for a 20 so from there it's just a simple task to drop the triples and replace the bearings. this by the way is no surprise, to me at least, my 03 S4R needed new ones at about 10 and the old ones were only greased half way round the race. if they weren't i would be asking why not, or at least why they didn't call you, it would have saved duplicating at least an hours labour (and subsequent labour charge, of course!) and yep, belts every 2 years, this is more important on bikes, especially 2 valvers, due to the tight run over a single pulley, that don't do many kays.
paul.
Paul, great advice as always. I have checked the invoice and the bike again, and best I can tell, the fork oil was not changed - the forks do not seem to have been removed, and there is no fork oil billed on the invoice. Everything else is on it, including $77 for Shell oil I can buy at $36 full retail. Feeling very ripped off now [bang]
Quote from: tim_golfer2 on December 30, 2008, 11:06:59 PM
I spoke to Flywheels just before Xmas to get a rough price for 20 000 k service for a 620ie.
They said $8?? ish.
Tim. Thanks for that. Hangout for Matty coming back. His monster is a top unit [thumbsup]
Quote from: Spider on December 31, 2008, 12:03:58 AM
....this is the reason guys sell them if they aren't getting used a heap - it's just high maintenance cost if your not putting in the k's
Yes but its my baby. Better for me to roll up the sleeves and get back into being a mechanic again. At least I will get some shed time, if not riding time [moto]. Thanks Spider, and hope you find your new ride soon.
Again, thanks all.
Ty
personly changing the timing belts every two years is aload off shit if your done the miles yes but time should have no factor gates pride themselves on long lasting belts , i work on outboards and the only time you ever replace them if they start to crack and the belt tensions have been reduced now as well on the two valvers but if thats the case and they are shredding belts them im in trouble mine done 5 k and is three years spider want to buy a s2r [bang]
Ducsport,
We have had our bikes serviced away from the 'dealers' and $800s I think is what we paid ... they probably also charged you four hours for taking your half fairing off and putting it back on [roll] ... perhaps you could compare your charged hours to another with with an appropriate invoice.
My belts were changed at 2 years with far fewer kms. Jukie had her's changed after about 4 years I think because we were advised it was not worth the risk - and decided not to take the risk.
... and Tim, have you been in contact with Dockstrada re. Matty's bike?
Hi Betty
haven't contacted Dockstrada about Matty's bike though I am aware he is looking after it while he is away.
Mainly because I probably don't want all the extra bits on it so I guess I need to talk directly to Matty to work out a price.
But thanks for the heads up.
PS just walked the kids down to Coogee to catch the 9:30 fireworks......fantastic
Happy New Year all [beer]
Quote from: bazz20 on December 31, 2008, 03:11:30 AM
personly changing the timing belts every two years is aload off shit if your done the miles yes but time should have no factor gates pride themselves on long lasting belts , i work on outboards and the only time you ever replace them if they start to crack and the belt tensions have been reduced now as well on the two valvers but if thats the case and they are shredding belts them im in trouble mine done 5 k and is three years spider want to buy a s2r [bang]
actually it's the other way round bazz. if you use the bike regularly you can stretch the interval between belt changes, they are at a much higher risk of cracking and hardening if they are left unused but tensioned, particularly over a single pulley as the 2 valve motors are. personally i don't risk it, for what a rebuild is costing these days the belts cost nothing in comparison. even if you don't plan on replacing them it's a good idea to remove and inspect them as well as checking the rollers for bearing wear.
paul.
the last few 20,000km services we did (when i was doing the invoicing, etc) were all about $1,000 all up. if it's an '03 onwards bike fork oil is specced every 30,000km usually. the price of small round tooth belts varies - the 21A are about half the price of the 51A from memory. depends on whether or not they're long time mechanics too who do all the old stuff that maybe the schedules don't include anymore, or have their own "you have to do ...." things going on. you might find the new frasers shop sticks to the schedule per the model book. and if you use the ducati valve clearance specs you'd never change a shim anyway.
how many hours did they charge, and were there any extras?
the std steering head bearings can go quickly, especially with little use. i always had trouble convincing people about this - i'd get "i don't do wheelies", "feels all right to me", etc all pointed at us trying to rip them off. afterwards we'd often get "wow, you were right, it steers great now", usually in amazement that we didn't turn out to by lying, money grabbing arseholes. but really, these days i'm over trying to save everyone like i used to, so just let people know i thought it needed doing and left it at that. if you want a poor steering bike you're welcome to it. usually i'd quote bearings plus 2 hours, about $350 all up maybe? cheaper to get it done when the fork oil is being done labour wise, so i'd try to get people to do them both at the same time.
belts - i used to write "timing belts due for replacement due to age, belts not changed at owners direction" on any invoice where someone didn't want to do belts every 2 years just to cover our arse, and i'll keep doing it. again, not my bike, not my problem. really, i have no idea how long or under what circumstances they'll last, but i'm not paying for someone else's trial. i know of guys who have gone much longer than specified. some of them have paid a lot of money for it, others not a worry.
it doesn't sound like there were any "extras" charged, he was told the steering head bearings needed doing and they didn't do them so why would they do other work without the owners permission? regardless of hours charged, $1000 bucks for an air cooled 2 valve 20k service is pricey. add to that you say fork oil isn't done till 30k and it's exorbitant!! I recently paid $956 for a 20k service on my S4R that included belts, plugs, shims, oil, oil filter, fuel filter, fork oil, coolant, brake fluid AND labour. no air filter as i have a K&N but it got cleaned and re-oiled. the belts, plugs and filters were all genuine and i also had all my cables lubed and adjusted as well as the efi set up, in short i got a GREAT job for a FAIR price. i will NEVER complain about the service i get or the price i pay for using EUROTWINS, never!
paul.
p.s, my 03 complianced, 04 model year S4R warranty book specifies fork oil be replaced at 20k
Hey Brad
Do you have a preference/recomendation for the fork oil??? (M1000DS)
For viscosity, quantity. ??
Brad - when are you ready to rock and roll?
when I buy a bike..first place I'm taking it for a over-see is your place!
How can anyone that owns a Duc be a tight arse?
My advice is to change the oil, filters & belts regularly as well as check your valve clearances. Do it yourself if you can or have a reputable shop do it for you (Flywheels, EuroTwins, Penrith Ducati etc) but do it.
Your bike will thank you with a long and trouble free life.
I also think that it will keep your "whole of life" cost to a minimum :)
c,mon mick, there's a difference between being a tight arse and putting up with being fleeced! i've ridden dukes for over 15 years and i have to say as a customer i've seen it all, from dealers who think i'm a lawyer! (no i'm not kidding) and ask why i'm questioning a huge, read $1500 bill in '95 for a 10k service cause i can surely afford it in my profession! to being told to be thankful that i'm allowed to buy a bike from them. ( another stea... whoops! dealer) we all know they're not hondas and accept that there's a premium to pay in servicing our choice of ride but some places try and solve their own global crisis within a days trade.
paul.
Quote from: MonsterDorf on January 01, 2009, 02:27:14 AM
How can anyone that owns a Duc be a tight arse?
My advice is to change the oil, filters & belts regularly as well as check your valve clearances. Do it yourself if you can or have a reputable shop do it for you (Flywheels, EuroTwins, Penrith Ducati etc) but do it.
Your bike will thank you with a long and trouble free life.
I also think that it will keep your "whole of life" cost to a minimum :)
And you learn more about your mount and learn to appreciate it. [thumbsup]
Showing my age here, but all the people I used to ride around with all used to fettle their own bikes and we all knew how to, what to and in what manner to do virtually anything on many different bikes both European and Japanese. ;)
And generally shops were very happy to impart knowledge and info on fixes, preventative repairs etc. ;D
There wasnt much we couldnt do, particularly in the way of roadside troubleshooting. [thumbsup]
Quote from: loony888 on January 01, 2009, 02:37:37 AM
c,mon mick, there's a difference between being a tight arse and putting up with being fleeced! i've ridden dukes for over 15 years and i have to say as a customer i've seen it all, from dealers who think i'm a lawyer! (no i'm not kidding) and ask why i'm questioning a huge, read $1500 bill in '95 for a 10k service cause i can surely afford it in my profession! to being told to be thankful that i'm allowed to buy a bike from them. ( another stea... whoops! dealer) we all know they're not hondas and accept that there's a premium to pay in servicing our choice of ride but some places try and solve their own global crisis within a days trade.
paul.
Gotta agree there mate. Have worked in shops that operated on both sides of the spectrum!! :o
Thought I should chime in again with another big thanks to all who have replied. Brad, I was hoping you would impart some of your experience as well, so many thanks. Paul, Dragon, Mick, Betty and others - many thanks.
Some more facts on my recent service experience:
The labour chanrge was not given in hours. The invoice says "20k service, Ducati (all models)....$700"
In terms of parts, invoice stated:
Oil filter $21.25 (the going rate)
Shell advance ultra oil $77.55 (at least double retail!!)
Fuel filter $41.09 (pricey??)
Gaskets and a new crush washer for oil drain plug $28.86 (seems about right)
Spark plugs $12.64 (about right)
Belts $150.70 (seems to be going retail price in OZ)
Consumables and environmental disposal of oils $20 (whatever that is...)
GST on all of above $105.21
Grand total $1157.30 to be precise
Reading all of the discussion on this, I think the biggest rip off is the $700 labour charge, regardless of which Ducati model, coupled to the fact they have not changed the fork oil (meaning fewer labour hours actually spent). The advice on the steering head bearings was printed on the invoice as "Steering head bearings need replacing soon"
I suppose this is what you get living in a regional centre (Wollongong), where we don't have the choice of multiple outlets like Sydney. I like to support local businesses and dealers, because without support they will leave and then we will have nothing. After this experience my local loyalty is pretty well gone.
I will be mostly DIY from now onwards, and going to Sydney for the rest. Penrith is a nice ride anyway....
Ty
spider - jan 19th ish hopefully.
fork oil - 5wt, std height at a guess. replace the springs to suit your weight.
you're pretty liberal about knowing what goes through bevans mind there brad! i dunno about whether he wants out or not but he recently invested in new premises with a full refurbishment, yes he's a one man show, but from what i've seen maybe that's because he can't find someone who shares his dedication to the job. each job, no matter how large or small gets the same attention, that and the fact he's on his own would partly explain his 8 week wait on services, the rest of it would be that he's good at his job. what he makes from his business is nobodies concern but his but the usual signs of an unhappy owner, high prices, poor workmanship, grubby premises, bad attitude etc. aren't there so i reckon he'll be around for a while yet, i hope so anyway.
Now that you're running your own shop and face the realities involved with keeping the wolves from the door week in and week out i can understand you're trying to get potential customers to accept higher servicing costs as normal, i'm sure you would like everyone to just cough up what you expect, problem is, there are others doing a good job for a more sensible price, eurotwins and flywheels to name just two, in the end i guess it comes down to choice, maybe there's little competition near you? remember though, you're not a dealership anymore......or are you?
paul.
I see your point of view Paul, but don't forget to consider that there are many factors which set the price:
- overheads, including wages, rent, stock on the shelf etc etc
- what margin and profit you need to make to keep happy.
there's just two big ones as examples!
Just the overheads alone could have large differences in costs. Rent will vary not only with the city you're in but the location in the city. Location is often dictated by availability, cost, competition and the like. Same goes for staff, it's about supply and demand - good staff are hard to find, and when you find them you have to retain them, which is about remunerating and rewarding them. If you're a good mechanic with a sound knowledge of ducs, then chances are you are either working for a reputable dealer or working for a specialist shop. I'd hazard a guess that you'd make less working for the dealers (perhaps that's a generalisation). If you're a one man band, then that part is an easier solve but now its harder to find enough hours in the day to be the mechanic, business owner, accounts dept, purchasing officer, salesman and all the other hats you need to wear.
There's the saying about the value triangle - with the thee corners of the triangle being cost, quality and speed. You can take your pick of any two, but can't have all three. The three companies you've mentioned are all reputable specialist shops (or about to be in Brad's case!) in three very different markets, so I would expect some differences in where they see their value pitch. Now what would make it interesting is if all three were in the same city, not for their businesses, but for us as clients. Imagine the choice you would have!
You've mentioned an 8 week wait with Bevan, so it seems clear where he's pitched his value - with more of an emphasis on quality and cost. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I'm sure he's had to accept the fact that not all customers are like you and are prepared to wait 2 months for a service booking. Around xmas Flywheels was inundated with work, and with 1 mechanic down, were accepting no further bookings. I'm sure Ron faced the same reality that some customers would go elsewhere when faced with a long wait period.
FWIW, I just had my 20K done at Flywheels, and the costs were on par with Brad's comments. They took my bike immediately and it was ready within the week, so I'm satisfied that I got value.
Anyways all good discussions, and I wish all three companies all the very best in making their businesses a success, however they choose to measure it [thumbsup]
just picked up mine '05 S2R 800cc from Gowanloch after having a 20K service done
$1.049.00
well that's heading in the right direction at least, it's $108 cheaper than ducsport's bill. did they do fork oil melvin?
gowanlochs eh? i thought you had ron at flywheels do your work?
paul.
ron was busy; apparently booked out till mid feb so waiting that long wasn't an option
...............on the other hand. i've called Gowanloch's wednesday, brought the bike thursday arvo and the bike was ready for collection friday
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3315/3190207687_5b1cf75cda_b.jpg)
while were on this subject those with s2r,s what are you paying for belts , cheers bazz
if by that you mean an item on my bill called: 68T Belt Suit 600/75 than its $105.46
OK, 20K service cost me $1035 which included fork oil and head stem bearings.
I guess Bevan took pretty much all day to do the service and labour was $436 which seems pretty good for an all day job.
He even spent a fair bit of time talking to me about suspension set up and helped tweak it up a bit.
Exceptionally happy :)
Must be time for me to buy a BMW . My mates F800S 20000K service was arround $400.
Mines done 17500 k's , sounds like I'd better start saving $1K. :o
Quote from: MonsterDorf on February 27, 2009, 06:29:06 PM
OK, 20K service cost me $1035 which included fork oil and head stem bearings.
I guess Bevan took pretty much all day to do the service and labour was $436 which seems pretty good for an all day job.
He even spent a fair bit of time talking to me about suspension set up and helped tweak it up a bit.
Exceptionally happy :)
nice work mick!
i guess we should be happy we don't live in melbourne eh? i don't know what currency they use down there but it doesn't buy anywhere near as much [cheeky]
nice to see more good feedback for bevan, he is a dead set legend, i don't know about anyone else but i'll happily support those who support me.
paul.