So....there is this 1100 monster challenge and a majority of the posts are rather negative about it. It was related mostly to customizing the tank skins and lots of dealers put some time into it...but it didn't get the reviews I think some were anticipating.
What went wrong?
not enough press?
not enough promoting from Ducati or from the DMF (we didn't get advanced notice)?
we don't care about just custom paint so it was a waste of DNA time?
We're independent and in no way connected with DNA, but we have some sponsors who put some time in and overall DMF members didn't exactly share the love (no pressure to of course)....so what went wrong?
What would we want to see different that would be of interest to monster owners?
Input please....in case they are reading.
I think there was (from what little I know) not enough time/exposure for the "hype" to build...
I know some dealers didn't even have enough time to complete bikes because of paint shop delays and limited work time.
Monster riders care less about flashy paint than trick parts, tuning, chopping (i.e. "real innovations"), etc.
That being said, I think some of the entries have interesting ideas and style!
[thumbsup]
#1 based as a dealer only thing (bad)
#2 it would appear that more time was needed. (most of the bikes look hurried)
#3 the TE was not invited 8)
#4 not promoted well IMO
#5 no Stu bike (boooooooo)
Not enough press.
DNA dropped the ball in promoting this idea. It could have gone much better and promoted the idea behind the interchangeable body panels but they didn't follow through. [bacon]
The first monster challenge was a huuuge hit and the 2nd one... not so much (Hell, I was a finalist. That shows just how low the bar was [laugh] [laugh])
The first one was a combo of dealer bikes and just plain folks bikes (and was won by a Stu, a non-dealer, I might add) and essentially allowed for almost a full decades worth of customized monsters to enter.
The 2nd one was a "no dealers allowed" affair, and that may have limited participation.
A lot of folks thought "Well, my bike isn't custom enough." Which is pretty foolish, IMHO. Why not enter just for the fun of it? I entered saying "Why the hell not get a free dinner from Ducati?" Who knew I'd end up with my bike being put on display at the Barber Museum?
My take is a successful monster challenge:
Should be open to everyone. If you're concerned about dealers vs. 'civilians' then have two classes.
Should be held no more often than every 2 years. Give it time for the hype to build and give the new bikes time to build an aftermarket.
Make the judging a bit more... widespread. As it was it felt like we were being judged at the whims of a small number of folks who may not have understood Monsters quite so well (BTW: this comes from my perception of how other folks' bikes were judged. If anything I thought they were a bit too kind to my bike. )
More awards of lesser value. This would encourage more entrants at the local bike shows.
More Press.
Work with the dealers & clubs more to encourage them to help get folks put their bikes into the shows. Maybe even offer incentives to dealers to help get the bikes to local shows. Tie that into the aftermarket as well, so dealers could pimp more accessories to get folks to enter. So maybe clubs and dealers could nominate bikes too.
Mind you, I'm not pregnant doging. *I* had an awesome time in the challenge. Others... not so much. But it's a hard thing to put your Precious up for judging and not feel a bit crushed.
My Dos Centavos.
Oh yeah. A working web site for the challenge would also be a plus [roll]
was this a competition for painters?
I would have liked to see more info on the painters that did the work.
Some of them had some AWESOME paint!!!!! But that's all I saw.
^^^^ BTW: I was POed your bike didn't make the finals.
Quote from: ToXiK on January 12, 2009, 06:15:03 PM
was this a competition for painters?
I would have liked to see more info on the painters that did the work.
Some of them had some AWESOME paint!!!!! But that's all I saw.
IMO there wasn't much awesomeness in the paint either.
A couple were good ideas but ended up way too overdone.
I do appreciate the effort and talent from the painters...
what was shown isn't easy...certainly not my skillset.
I didn't think Monsters were about just another expensive paint job,
I guess. :-\
1) many (most) of the paint jobs reminded me more of bike from west coast choppers than a ducati monster
2) few dealers did anything beyond painting the skins. i attribute this in equal parts to the time constraints and the lack of aftermarket mods available for a bike that has not even "hit the streets" yet. (to be fair, there are a couple of notable exceptions to this)
a sure winner would have fabbed a new, tubular sub frame for the 1100s
i would like to see a monster challenge every couple of years, with different classes.
maybe a dealer class, a private class, etc...
from what I saw...most dealers put bare bones basics on...I only saw 1 that put a full system on...most did similar modification like blacking out various bits and pieces...all had little time to literally or otherwise transform their bikes..so that was a serious hampstring on the whole dealio...not all shops had the resources to be able to truly dedicate someone or someones to the project in the truncated timeframe...and then to top it off...the photo's on the bikes I saw in person versus what was on the site did no justice to how they actually came out....so there's my .02....but I am betting Ducati isn't listening, even if the dealers are.
to me (someone who knows very little about bikes) all the finished product looked like was a contest on who could have the "loudest" paintjob that 95% of ducati OWNERS would never think about putting on there bike. i was excited and couldn't wait to see the pics and results but upon seeing them i seriously wanted to cry. now i didn't pay attention to the "rules" or what this contest really consisted of but i figure one of two things: 1) either the dealers fell far short of expectations and have no idea what to do with a bike besides selling them uncostumized. or 2) the organizers of the contest itself fell short by having only a "paint the tank" contest. those bikes are for sure not what i want to picture in my mind when i hear or think of ducati. just my thoughts.
The safe answer is that people weren't interested because it was mostly a paint contest. But the real problem is deep down everyone knows that no matter what is done to a 2009 Monster 1100 it will never look as awesome as a well done 1994 Monster. So why bother.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Misc/Wilderness-1.jpg?t=1231819835)
1. The bike is ugly to begin with and not appreciated among Monster aficionados, so they were facing an uphill battle. The 696 isn't much better, but it doesn't have the part-bin special look that the 1100s suffers from, and it would have made a better base for the designs.
2. Monsters are not OCC choppers, and the people who ride them are not generally trailer-queen chopper fans. Paint is not what impresses a Monster owner.
3. I got the impression that contestants were limited to bolt-on parts (maybe in an effort to help sell accessories)? I don't know this for a fact, but the lack of innovative chopping suggests it. If that was the case, it was a mistake.
3. The paint themes, while executed well, were not very inspired, and some were very, very ugly.
There wasn't much PR, but even if there had been, I think the response would have been the same. The designs just weren't that good, and neither is the bike.
Well not to kick a dead horse, but paint and an exhaust is not really a 'challenge'.
You can't really create a new look or feel with just paint and a few bolt ons.
Either just call it a paint contest, or give people the time to REALLY customize the bikes.
BTW, some of the paint really was fantastic. But I had basically heard nothing about it until Dave R posted about it.
Painfully truthful here:
95% of the paint jobs were hideous. Why? Because the dealers were not given enough time to come up with a good enough theme.
All entries had either termis or stock exhaust, since there are not that many options out there, even less available in short notice.
People are voting purely on the web. Some of the paint jobs would look nicer (hopefully) when seen live.
Most dealers only apply mods to bikes on custom requests. The real innovators of Monster mods have been "civilians".
Have I mentioned how much I hated most of the paint jobs?
Not enough Hype AND.... it seemed too much like a marketing stunt. The beauty of customizing monsters is, most custom jobs are done by average joes like us in our garage, over time. (like the monster challenge) I think leaving it up to the professionals really nullified the grass roots feel of the marketing campaigns behind the monster in years past. Even their "ducati people" campaign exploited everyday owners... I think they just lost the connection to the consumer. PS. DNA I am for hire! I will even work at JMPR if you put in a good word! [beer]
I didn't hear boo about it (and Ducati NA is always sending me survey letters and such) until Ducati Seattle put theirs up.
HOWEVER, in person there's a lot more to the bike than the photos convey. The seat, clutch cover, and sliders were nice farkles in person, and stirs "if the demo were my bike, I'd do that..." thoughts. Even "that'd look nice with my 695."
I think the real mistake was doing it with a new model. I'm not even sure what the stock features are of the 1100; and I'm probably not the only one.
When I had lunch (sorry when bp and I had lunch) with one of DNA folks at the Moto GP Race at Laguna in 07, she said that they hoped the DOC's would take over the Challenge.
I am a painter and a owner of a 696 and must say that the bikes did nothing for me, there really were some hard work on some of those bikes from the painting side, but as for the rest ( mechanical side ) very dissapointing. This whole process was far to hurried to achieve anything other than to attract the common people to look at the bikes and even with that they failed as there were not enough publicity.
As far as the paint customizing goes I have a hard time getting any inspiration to do something special on my own bike (a 696), which was not true for my 98 M900, so asking any painter to come up with something that doesn`t really stir the soul is really difficult. Don`t get me wrong I think the new bikes are so much better mechanically than the old one`s it`s not even funny.
I was actually excited when I heard about this competition, because I thought that I would get some inspiration from it, but I did not. :(
I would like to say that there were some truly creative paintwork by some really great painters, just not what I like on the new Monster. [thumbsup]
Some of the dealers out West need to lay of the grass. A Beatles theme??? Who in the hell has ever associated the Beatles with bad ass motorcycles? Save that theme for the custom Vespa contest. ;) Leave the creativity contests to the people who are truly passionate about the machine they OWN! Monsters are what they are because they have the potential to be individualized, and that takes INDIVIDUALS not dealers! Don't fault DNA though....it was a good idea they just did what corporations do.....forgot to put down the stacks of paperwork and take a peek outside of their cubicles to see what they should really focus on......THEIR CUSTOMERS!
I like the looks of the 1100 over the 696, but keep the "people" informed and involved and it will be more rewarding for all of us .....the company and true enthusiasts!!!
I agree, There is something really missing on the new ducatis!
Especially the monsters. I usually update every year but i am
thankful i have the origanal monster. I have to admit when
they announced the streetfighter i got a little nervous about it
b ut now i have seen one up close and in detail and again
it did nothing for me at all.
Quote from: jsanford on January 12, 2009, 09:52:05 PM
I think the real mistake was doing it with a new model. I'm not even sure what the stock features are of the 1100; and I'm probably not the only one.
there were two stock ones sitting out front all day Friday and Sat.. the red one is a demo and the white one is for sale .. tough crowd : /
Maybe I should have posted this here.... :-\
QuoteQuoteQuote from: flynbulldog on Yesterday at 06:46:58 PM
I think the paint jobs is awesome! A lot of thought and creativity went into that. I also think it speaks to the time, to right now, it's very "up to the minute" stylistically.
But for me personally, it's not something I would want on my own bike.
Hi Mike, we all agree at DS that few of us would choose this design as our own personal ride. This was a competition created by DNA in a slow time to inspire dealers, the consumer and lively conversation on forums like these.. The judging is brief (ends on the 16th) and the prize is not much. They want to send the winners bike on the remaining portion of the Cycle World Show ?? that's it.. The motivation ? Get some attention on the new model.. is it working ? I think so : )
We saw the contest as a chance to showcase my employees (Busch Brothers) artwork. We wanted to portray a "Monster".. From the texture of the Rich's custom leather seat and tank to strip to the mouth of the Beast on each side of the tank panel eating the the rest of the bike. We tried to pay attention to as many details as possible in the limited hours avail. We took care of a ton of subtle details from plugs, oil cap that matched the large connection point, gold chain to match wheels, grips, tiny CRG mirrors, some DP carbon, no reflectors, DP tail chop, DP clutch plate, Speedymoto cover and springs. We even went as far as to line up the valve stems in the studio photo shoot ! We had fun with the rush to get it together ! Should it have been handled different ? Maybe but I can assure you this is only the start.. I am sure DNA has plans to encourage owners of the 696/1100 series Monsters to do their own mods and recreate a new Monster challenge in the not too distant future. This first one was a good barometer. I was happy to see those dealers who went so far as to participate in the tough climate areas and then roll the bike out onto the snow covered ground and take photos ! I can promise you it improved the general "mood" in those dealerships who participated.. regardless of whose creation you like, please vote for one and show the dealers some support in a tough times for many.
Sorry Dave, I don't think anyone here meant to offend you or any other dealer. Maybe BastrdHK did, but the rest have been constructive. We all understand the timelines you were given and unless your bike is bone stock most of us know how much time is spent when customizing our bikes. Anyways, try not to take it person, we're not holding you responsible for the new Monster's look.
Yes not enough PR.
Yes, a difficult canvas to start with, both aesthetically and it is so new, I have never seen one in person.
I don't think any contest online can ever create the energy or buzz a traveling show in person does.
The format of the contest webpage stinks. I can't remember what the first bike looked like after you have seen several others.
mitt
Guys don't knock it, just be glad DNA had the balls to do it and yes i agree that 95% of the designs where over the top but what got me was the lack of DP parts which when fitted to a show bike usually help keep the parts guy employed. I showed my wife the photos of the bikes that are on the forum and her verdict was that the stock 1100s i had over the christmas holidays was a far better looking bike than the dealer custumized bikes. We had a local motorcycle show over here in the UK last weekend in manchester and the amount of interest from non ducati riding bikers was fantastic so even though it's not on alot of current monster owners wish lists it can only be good if it makes the ducati community stronger which in the end benefits us all [thumbsup]
This right here should say it all:
There was a monster challenge? ???
The complaints on the design of the bike is bringing back memories of Datsun's 280Z. When the design changed, so many people balked at it, vowing to break their branded loyalty. But over time, the newer design was accepted. Today's latest version of the Z has a huge following and mechanically it is, as Big Troubled Bear stated, much better than the old.
Spidey wrote a wonderful, honest review of the 1100. He wasn't entirely smitten by the bike initially, but changed his mind at the end. Again, memories of the 280Z.
My friend owns both the original 280Z and a 350Z. We both agree each has their own unique hotness. Comparing them is comparing apples to oranges.
Whether one likes the new Monster design is subjective to ones individual taste. IMHO, I find there is enough love for both the older Monster and the new design.
I only saw a couple of bikes, reminded me of the Roland Sands thing. Custom paint. Ducati wanted new customers and I think they've got them. The water cooled 696 at Indy is the best custom example I've seen.
I finally found the pics of the bikes from the challenge and in all honesty every single one SUCKS. 80% of them don't even have open clutch covers they are all just custom painted bikes. Do something unique with them! Everyone and their mom can get a custom painted bike like that. Chop the whole passenger seat off and remove the rear pegs, add an open clutch, build a unique exhaust or something!
I guess dealers just need more time, and i agree that the challenge should have been done in a year or two when more parts are available.
Quote from: GLantern on January 13, 2009, 08:45:40 AM
I finally found the pics of the bikes from the challenge and in all honesty every single one SUCKS. 80% of them don't even have open clutch covers they are all just custom painted bikes. Do something unique with them! Everyone and their mom can get a custom painted bike like that. Chop the whole passenger seat off and remove the rear pegs, add an open clutch, build a unique exhaust or something!
I guess dealers just need more time, and i agree that the challenge should have been done in a year or two when more parts are available.
The Daytona bike has a custom clutch cover, but that was not built by the dealer.
Quote from: GLantern on January 13, 2009, 08:45:40 AM
I finally found the pics of the bikes from the challenge and in all honesty every single one SUCKS. 80% of them don't even have open clutch covers they are all just custom painted bikes. Do something unique with them! Everyone and their mom can get a custom painted bike like that. Chop the whole passenger seat off and remove the rear pegs, add an open clutch, build a unique exhaust or something!
I guess dealers just need more time, and i agree that the challenge should have been done in a year or two when more parts are available.
on the 1st part of what you said...if you walked into a showroom and that kind modification was done to a machine and still coined as a "NEW" bike...would YOU buy it?....that is something that alot of these dealers still have to consider...there is a tradeoff on how much of a loss they might take on putting alot of time and parts into something if someone isn't going to buy it...
also on waiting a year or 2 till parts are available...the whole gambit was to piggyback the launch/release of the machine at the local dealer level and to inspire a little excitement....waiting 2 years doesn't exactly accomplish that...
As someone else has already pointed out, I also think DNA has gauged interest in these bikes by the DOCs and the websites like this one. Along with the "challenge" pretty much every dealer had a 1100 launch last weekend. They are truly trying to get the general public excited about this bike.
An enthusiast will never look at a Monster Challenge like DNA or a dealer.
This was a marketing exercise involving dealers. The Monster Challenge involving enthusiasts was a marketing exercise involving the enthusiasts, the goals were similar but the method was different. Ducati wants to promote the new bike, a DMC would not do that, it promotes the brand.
I enjoyed going to the DMC I was in, it really was a lot of fun but don't mistake this DMC for the original.
The bikes were all pretty uninspiring due to the goals and timeframes, I am however happy that this many dealers participated, they're all in a bad spot right now with the economy the way it is, I really hope it brings in business.
I think the problem was too much bling, I threw all kinds of ideas at Daytona and the only one they let me do was the clutch cover.
The Monster IMO should be a mean looking sport bike that was stripped down, only the essentials, should be dark, simple and to the point. Loud paint belongs on a chopper, not a Monster.
I wish they would have run with my theme, I think it would have won, but what do I know.
If it were given more time, more hype it may have brought even better results than it did. I *nearly* contacted a local dealer to see if they wanted my advice, but honestly...I'm slammed busy right now and don't have the time for what they would likely not paid me for.
The M1100 has a lot of potential (M696 too btw) and in time, there will be acceptance of the new model versus the classic Monster. It is inevitable. There will always be preferences for one over the other (I don't think you'll find someone who really loves both....but I hope I'm wrong).
If it were me, I would have had a lot of time into small-ish mods that 'finish' the overall design intent that usually gets bastardized to make a price point (accountants should do books, not bikes).
(NOTE: I haven't seen the pics yet so I don't have an opinion on any of this, these are just my observations.)
As limited as they made the contest how much more successful could it have been? The goal was to promote a new bike through the dealer so, as many have pointed out, there is a limited parts bin and a mindset by the dealer (totally justified) to not put a lot of money and time into something that they still have to sell.
If they want a big contest with inventive ideas they have to wait and allow people to throuw more money at their own bike. But then it isn't a new model promotion anymore, is it? there was nothing in this idea that was going to get existing owners to pony up cash for a new monster. It may have gotten some people who are new to ducs more interested in the new bikes. The only way they'd be able to tell is to poll the people who buy them.
I can't wait to see the results after the M1100 really gets chopped up and changed around. I'm sure it will be a pretty cool looking bike after all is said and done.
Wanna generate excitement about the new model?
Have the challenge open to all models of Monster, new and old, and see if one of the new ones wins.
Quote from: Rameses on January 13, 2009, 11:34:48 AM
Wanna generate excitement about the new model?
Have the challenge open to all models of Monster, new and old, and see if one of the new ones wins.
The point is to promote the new model, not to compare the 2.
Quote from: duccarlos on January 13, 2009, 11:41:02 AM
The point is to promote the new model, not to compare the 2.
+1
judging by everyones comments the old one would win hands down.
I have nothing against dealers at all but when I heard that this was a contest for dealers to customize a new Monster, you lost me right there. I don't care about timeline, what kind of bike it is, or any of that...it's just not exciting to see dealers bolting on parts or buying paintjobs. I never even saw any of the photos from this competition.
Seeing enthusiasts being creative is where it's at [thumbsup]
No one owns an 1100 yet. With more time, I'm sure the dealers would have created what would eventually become some of the aftermarket for this bike. Instead, they made due with what they had, which wasn't much. Termis, paint job, and as many small things they could find that fit from the old one.
Quote from: motogpfan on January 13, 2009, 11:42:22 AM
+1
judging by everyones comments the old one would win hands down.
That was kinda my point.
If they want people to get excited about it, all they have to do is make it look good.
Quote from: fasterblkduc on January 13, 2009, 11:48:07 AM
I have nothing against dealers at all but when I heard that this was a contest for dealers to customize a new Monster, you lost me right there. I don't care about timeline, what kind of bike it is, or any of that...it's just not exciting to see dealers bolting on parts or buying paintjobs. I never even saw any of the photos from this competition.
Seeing enthusiasts being creative is where it's at [thumbsup]
so you are basically saying that because a dealer is a dealer, they are not enthusiasts?!?!?!
I think that's pretty ignorant! Do you know how much guys who work at a dealer and do these things make? Not alot. They do it for the love of the product. DaveR who owns DucatiSeatle and is a sponsor here is also not just that, but an avid Ducati enthusiast. Same is true my best Ducati dealer here in Donnie Unger at DucPond Motorsports. He raced Ducati's for 20 years and developed a service only non-franchised business working on Ducati's and doing fabrication and customization and now he owns a dealership with his wife. Jeff Nash who owns AMS is an enthusiast. These are just a few examples of where your closed minded statement goes horribly wrong and needs to be rethought.
I appreciate the work done on the paint but this contest could have been done with just photos of the skins. When you look through the photos of bikes here on the forum paint isn't the major focus of the mods. And when it is, it is clean and understated. Most Ducati owners let the exhaust (and clutch) speak for the bike not the paint
It wasn't really too much of a contest/ challenge. I was not aware (and still don't know) if there was any sort of prize. Recognition doesn't seem to be valued too much. I think if more time and effort spent on other aspects of it recognition would be a fine reward. To me it just seems like everyone put something together and that was really it. My dealer didn't have a crazy paint scheme which was really nice to see but a lot of small details can't fully be appreciated on line... Even though small details where pretty much not part of this whole challenge.
maybe ducati should have tried harder to differentiate between this "challenge" and past monster challenges.
it seem like we were all expecting this one to be equal to the others, which it clearly was not.
also, +11ty billion on the poor advertising/marketing leading up to this "event"
The bikes was delivered to most dealers Wednesday, the unveiling was Friday. WTF do you suppose they do? The manager brought me the clutch cover after he got off work so I can get it done, 70 mile round trip on his own time. The dedication was there, the time was not.
Also notice the original list of dealers vs the ones that actually presented a bike. I know of at least 2 dealers that did not make the date, or didn't even try. In the end, the dealers did all they could not only to promote a bike that has been widely trashed by this community with some very strict limitations from DNA. With that said, maybe some should have rethought the paint.
I still maintain a blacked out version would have won.
Quote from: zooom on January 13, 2009, 12:35:35 PM
so you are basically saying that because a dealer is a dealer, they are not enthusiasts?!?!?!
I think that's pretty ignorant! Do you know how much guys who work at a dealer and do these things make? Not alot. They do it for the love of the product. DaveR who owns DucatiSeatle and is a sponsor here is also not just that, but an avid Ducati enthusiast. Same is true my best Ducati dealer here in Donnie Unger at DucPond Motorsports. He raced Ducati's for 20 years and developed a service only non-franchised business working on Ducati's and doing fabrication and customization and now he owns a dealership with his wife. Jeff Nash who owns AMS is an enthusiast. These are just a few examples of where your closed minded statement goes horribly wrong and needs to be rethought.
This is exactly why I try to keep my opinions to myself on the internet. Some jackass comes along and says that others' opinions are ignorant.
This thread is asking for opinions which I gave. I never said that dealers can't be enthusiasts. I was trying to state my opinion of why a dealer contest is not that exciting to me. Dealers have resources that are way above and beyond what a typical motorcycle owner has. Therefore it's much more impressive and exciting to me to see bikes modified by people without the shop, tools, technicians, and $$ at the ready. I'm very happy that all of the above people mentioned are dealers and enthusiasts at the same time.
I'm not sure where the personal attack came from but maybe in the future I should check with you first before embarrassing myself with my "ignorant" opinions? ??? [bow_down]
I agree ignorant is a little strong, it was an asked opinion.
Quote from: motogpfan on January 13, 2009, 01:39:48 PM
I still maintain a blacked out version would have won.
mmmmmm dark [thumbsup]
My opinion is that all people that don't agree with me are ignorant. I also think that the only way to redeem the whole "paint" thing would be if DNA would gift me whichever bike I think should be the winner.
Quote from: duccarlos on January 13, 2009, 02:04:22 PM
My opinion is that all people that don't agree with me are ignorant. I also think that the only way to redeem the whole "paint" thing would be if DNA would blow me.
fixed
I would rather get the bike.
maybe I was being a bit harsh, but the way I read your comment was that a dealer is not an enthusiast and therefore it doesn't count or matter. I think that is absolutely wrong. Some of these dealers poured some labor and love in and most didn't. There are constraints, yes. Do they count, in my mind, yes they do. Not everyone can perform magical miracles and make that outta the park bike. There are shops that are dedicated to doing exactly that like Duck-Stews crew as well as some other shops. Hell, the MotoWheels guys make a serious effort and they aren't a dealer either. The other end of what I read in your comment was that if it wasn't common man that is doing it, then it doesn't count because a common man is an enthusiast. Perception is a helluva thing in the written word and I am sorry if I misconstrued what you wrote.
on the thought that I am personally attacking you, I am not. I called your comment ignorant, not you. sorry if you took it personally. I was a bit strong in reply and apologize for that because that could be my fault just as much as anything else due to what I read in your reply whether intended or otherwise.
OK, enough tangents. Lets get back to how to make the challenge better.
mitt
Quote from: zooom on January 13, 2009, 02:14:43 PM
maybe I was being a bit harsh, but the way I read your comment was that a dealer is not an enthusiast and therefore it doesn't count or matter. I think that is absolutely wrong. Some of these dealers poured some labor and love in and most didn't. There are constraints, yes. Do they count, in my mind, yes they do. Not everyone can perform magical miracles and make that outta the park bike. There are shops that are dedicated to doing exactly that like Duck-Stews crew as well as some other shops. Hell, the MotoWheels guys make a serious effort and they aren't a dealer either. The other end of what I read in your comment was that if it wasn't common man that is doing it, then it doesn't count because a common man is an enthusiast. Perception is a helluva thing in the written word and I am sorry if I misconstrued what you wrote.
on the thought that I am personally attacking you, I am not. I called your comment ignorant, not you. sorry if you took it personally. I was a bit strong in reply and apologize for that because that could be my fault just as much as anything else due to what I read in your reply whether intended or otherwise.
no worries [beer]
Quote from: mitt on January 13, 2009, 02:19:10 PM
OK, enough tangents. Lets get back to how to make the challenge better.
mitt
See my comments above. But seriously, give the dealers more time to develop significant mods. They understand that they have access to some pretty good customers that have good (and sometimes bad when it comes to BP and Motogpfan. Who in the world likes oyster shooters?) ideas about customizing Monsters. This whole thing sounds like 2 dudes up at DNA sitting around some beers right before the 1100 launch talking about ways to get everyone excited about the bike. They probably then pitch the idea to the higher ups and voila! We have a challenge, which we're calling a challenge, but it really isn't.
Or like I said, DNA hopes the DOC's will do the Challenge, so it's up to us. [popcorn]
Quote from: kopfjager on January 13, 2009, 04:12:01 PM
Or like I said, DNA hopes the DOC's will do the Challenge, so it's up to us. [popcorn]
you can dooooo it
Quote from: kopfjager on January 13, 2009, 04:12:01 PM
Or like I said, DNA hopes the DOC's will do the Challenge, so it's up to us. [popcorn]
then lets nominate someone to run it.
i nominate Statler.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 13, 2009, 05:36:24 PM
then lets nominate someone to run it.
i nominate Statler.
I don't think we're an official DOC...
do we want to be?
Quote from: just another painter on January 13, 2009, 05:39:26 PM
I don't think we're an official DOC...
do we want to be?
maybe yes, maybe no.
might be more fun to start a real hooligan DOC which does all the things that DNA wants people to think they do.
I would suggest working through Vicki Smith to get all the DOCs on board.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 13, 2009, 06:19:27 PM
maybe yes, maybe no.
might be more fun to start a real hooligan DOC which does all the things that DNA wants people to think they do.
Hooligans? Where?
the Monster challenge is about members customizing their Monsters, custom exhaust or even aftermarket, custom lights, custom looks overall, NOT lets custom paint some easily removeable side panels and call it "custom" I understand that the removable side panels is a selling feature, and I for one think its cool, but not enough to call it a custom monster and throw it into a "Monster Challenge"
fyi, I dont hate this Monster challenge by any means, I just think its weak.
Quote from: just another painter on January 13, 2009, 05:39:26 PM
I don't think we're an official DOC...
do we want to be?
DOCIMBY?
DOCIMP?
i think............. [drink]
Would it have been less disappointing if it were marketed as a tank skin painting competition? (or marketed at all? ;D)
Then the Termi cans and small bits-n-pieces would be just fluff extra, and we'd be looking at and talking about the tank skins.
Quote from: Statler on January 13, 2009, 06:38:24 PM
Would it have been less disappointing if it were marketed as a tank skin painting competition? (or marketed at all? ;D)
Then the Termi cans and small bits-n-pieces would be just fluff extra, and we'd be looking at and talking about the tank skins.
... and saying what a lame-ass idea for a competition.
i know -- let's have a mirror customizing competition. everyone in for it? everyone customize your mirrors and we'll vote on it -- ready? steady? GO!
-- extra points if you paint-match your fenders.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 13, 2009, 06:41:54 PM
... and saying what a lame-ass idea for a competition.
i know -- let's have a mirror customizing competition. everyone in for it? everyone customize your mirrors and we'll vote on it -- ready? steady? GO!
-- extra points if you paint-match your fenders.
fair enough.
[popcorn]
i think the swappable panels is a great idea, but i don't think it is the main point of the bike. that is where they went wrong. riding a monster isn't about the color of the tank which is why they don't sell them in purple sparkle (oops, they did that..)
the panels are part and i would say a small part of the options available, but you can't make competition around that and expect not to be snickered at.
i hear Harley is having a "fake kick starter" competition. bring your own fake leather jacket (to match your penny loafers).
For the record, this was never marketed (at all) or sold to anyone as the "Monster Challenge". Someone at the beginning of this thread compared it to the challenge and it stuck. The Monster Challenge was not an internet poll. It was similar to the SUperbike Concurso as in people voted when they attended the event. Lets make sure everyone understands this fact.
Quote from: duccarlos on January 13, 2009, 06:52:49 PM
For the record, this was never marketed (at all) or sold to anyone as the "Monster Challenge". Someone at the beginning of this thread compared it to the challenge and it stuck. The Monster Challenge was not an internet poll. It was similar to the SUperbike Concurso as in people voted when they attended the event. Lets make sure everyone understands this fact.
your opinion is suspect as your idea of customizing a monster is teabagging it.
however, you are correct:
"
VOTE NOW IN THE DEALER M1100 S CHALLENGE!"
You're just jealous I haven't left any dingleberries or your seat..................................................................... yet
Quote from: duccarlos on January 13, 2009, 06:56:26 PM
You're just jealous I haven't left any dingleberries or your seat..................................................................... yet
I sprinkle cayenne pepper dust on my seat when i park it.
You guys wanna continue this mutual admiration fest by pm please...
...and get a room. ;)
Grifo sold his seat as a "special edition streak" seat. Anyway, that is probably a better mod than what anyone can do in 3 days.
Quote from: just another painter on January 13, 2009, 07:09:06 PM
You guys wanna continue this mutual admiration fest by pm please...
...and get a room. ;)
discussing boricua mods is totally on point
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 13, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
discussing boricua mods is totally on point
Like the one on Carlos head?
leave out the teabagging and dingleberries and carry on...
Quote from: just another painter on January 13, 2009, 07:14:03 PM
Like the one on Carlos head?
leave out the teabagging and dingleberries and carry on...
oh all right
Jeez, taking the fun out of life again. I want to hear what the AFKA DP would have done to that bike in 3 days.
i would have liked to see more of this kind of work (BADASS 696 at indymotogp08)
(http://www.hoosierhooligans.org/gallery/albums/userpics/thumb_DSC_0087-5%28rev_0%29.jpg)
(http://www.hoosierhooligans.org/gallery/albums/userpics/thumb_DSC_0089-5%28rev_0%29.jpg)
just my opinion
but i do understand time was a big factor
Quote from: duccarlos on January 13, 2009, 07:19:02 PM
Jeez, taking the fun out of life again. I want to hear what the AFKA DP would have done to that bike in 3 days.
I'm not an airbrush guy...no talent.
Even if I was I just don't believe a paint job alone makes a 'special' bike...or a custom.
I wouldn't have painted it dark...
I can say that.
Not all were airbrushed to hell. I actually liked Daytona, have to root for the local guys and actually had a custom clutch cover, and Pro Italia. Both were tastefully done paint jobs (mostly).
Quote from: just another painter on January 13, 2009, 07:24:19 PM
I wouldn't have painted it dark...
Hey, wait....what the .....son of a ......damnit. ;)
Quote from: kopfjager on January 13, 2009, 07:41:45 PM
Hey, wait....what the .....son of a ......damnit. ;)
Yours is special. ;D
Quote from: just another painter on January 13, 2009, 07:44:40 PM
Yours is special. ;D
in a short bus riding, helmet wearing and window licking kind of variety??
Quote from: DucLeone on January 13, 2009, 07:22:40 PM
i would have liked to see more of this kind of work (BADASS 696 at indymotogp08)
(http://www.hoosierhooligans.org/gallery/albums/userpics/thumb_DSC_0087-5%28rev_0%29.jpg)
(http://www.hoosierhooligans.org/gallery/albums/userpics/thumb_DSC_0089-5%28rev_0%29.jpg)
just my opinion
but i do understand time was a big factor
i liked that bike a lot as well, but i wouldnt consider it to be a 696 anymore...
Considering it has a 996 motor in it, I would presume not
Quote from: just another painter on January 13, 2009, 07:24:19 PM
I wouldn't have painted it dark...
I can say that.
+1
great minds think alike.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 13, 2009, 06:19:27 PM
maybe yes, maybe no.
might be more fun to start a real hooligan DOC which does all the things that DNA wants people to think they do.
we already have one of those,
Quote from: motogpfan on January 14, 2009, 09:13:33 AM
we already have one of those,
rofl, i meant something that isn't part of the Official DOC.
but i think CDC does corner the market on hooligans in the DOC.. i doubt there are many more rowdy boards!
saw the ducpond bike in person at the show last sun. in D.C.
thought it was very sharp. had a mean look to it.
older monster belly pan looked sick on the 696
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 14, 2009, 10:24:15 AM
rofl, i meant something that isn't part of the Official DOC.
but i think CDC does corner the market on hooligans in the DOC.. i doubt there are many more rowdy boards!
true, How many people get an interview at MotoGp by the track spoke person thats broad casted on Speed and the jumbotron while carrying Bella the blow up doll.
Quote from: motogpfan on January 14, 2009, 12:10:09 PM
true, How many people get an interview at MotoGp by the track spoke person thats broad casted on Speed and the jumbotron while carrying Bella the blow up doll.
rofl.
how many people WANT to?
*raises hand
Quote from: bobspapa on January 14, 2009, 03:11:15 PM
*raises hand
yeah yeah yeah, so sayeth the Peanut Gallery
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 14, 2009, 03:15:00 PM
yeah yeah yeah, so sayeth the Peanut Gallery
Thats
(http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/students/Chang-Schneider/Pictures/Mr.%20Peanut.bmp)
to you
Quote from: bobspapa on January 14, 2009, 03:17:40 PM
Thats
(http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/students/Chang-Schneider/Pictures/Mr.%20Peanut.bmp)
to you
You're a hard nut to crack Joel. ;D
dont....touch my nuts
Quote from: bobspapa on January 14, 2009, 03:23:36 PM
dont....touch my nuts
i knew a guy in high school with a lisp.
we always wanted to trick him into saying "peanuts" to someone in some odd situation (i.e. "my peanuts are too salty") but couldn't figure out how... >>sigh<<
Contest sux.
Dadly organized contests suck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo6Z3gIWrdY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo6Z3gIWrdY)
video of Duc Pond unveiling theirs at the DC show. Donnie (owner of Duc Pond) took a lot of pride in what the did to the bike. Also looks like maybe the only one to get rid of the stock foot peg setup. Thats almost a must on a monster.
What went wrong?
Anyone here old enough to remember Coca-Cola? Then came the "New Coke". That went over like a fart in church. The New Coke was taken off the shelf before it could even go flat. Now we have "Classic Coke" which is just the orignial Coca-Cola in a new can.
The New Monster is Ducatis "New Coke".
Oh, and it's ugly.
Aquinas said that beauty has three elements: Unity, Proportion, and Clarity.
Well, the New Monster loses out on at least two of those points: Unity and Proportion. Those exhaust cans (and even the aftermarket performance cans) just seem to pop out of nowhere in bulbous pods. They have no aesthetic proportion or unity to the header pipes. Then there's the peg mounts and the sub-frame; yuck.
I will say that I like the Tank Skins and the beefy look of the main frame.
PS: No offense to those who like it is intended.
Should have been a customer contest... We didn't participate as we didn't see any point in painting a tank cover... that doesn't showcase our dealerships skill at all - just the paint shop we choose to spray it. I'll leave it at that [thumbsup]
Quote from: NorDog on January 17, 2009, 10:04:41 AM
That went over like a fart in church.
Haha.....that made my day. I am gonna steal that one from you 8)
they needed more time. There are only a few which look like they have anything other than a new paint job. And I say 'look like' cuz I can't tell in all the photos. Any type of 'show' bike even if it's not an official show bike, I should be able to look at almost every piece and see something done to it. A contest of bolt-ons isn't much of a contest.
Andy
As I was reading this thread I was thinking that DNA should have just called it something other than the Monster Challenge. The original MC was made for everyone to show off their personal efforts. So, I figured everyone was upset because they had completely changed the challenge. Then someone stated that it wasn't called the Monster Challenge, so now I'm stumped.
It was obviously used as an opportunity to drum up interest in a new design. As motorcyclists we don't have the advantage of having huge shows like the North American Auto Show or Tokyo that manufacturers can roll out their new designs for thousands of people to oooo and ahhhh over. This sounds more like a grassroots movement to drum up interest in a new design. I think it worked. I was at DucPond's unveiling in DC and I didn't even know there was a contest, I just thought they modded it to mod it. There were a lot of other people that were at that unveiling that never would have looked into the Ducati booth, but they stopped, watched, and ended up taking a close look at the M1100.
Again, I think it worked, not as a Monster Challenge, but to create a little bit of interest. Not disagreeing with what anyone has said previously, just hoping to introduce a different angle.
but it was called the monster challenge...
at least it was in that video clip that someone posted...they guy presenting the bike referred to the whole deal as a monster challenge.
Then I think they should have called it something else. The Monster 1100 Dealer Only Paint and Bolt On Challenge Contest?
^^^
Quote from: duccarlos on January 13, 2009, 06:52:49 PM
For the record, this was never marketed (at all) or sold to anyone as the "Monster Challenge". Someone at the beginning of this thread compared it to the challenge and it stuck. The Monster Challenge was not an internet poll. It was similar to the SUperbike Concurso as in people voted when they attended the event. Lets make sure everyone understands this fact.
^^^ I covered that in a previous post.
Quote from: Lance Goodthrust on January 18, 2009, 06:02:20 PM
As I was reading this thread I was thinking that DNA should have just called it something other than the Monster Challenge. The original MC was made for everyone to show off their personal efforts. So, I figured everyone was upset because they had completely changed the challenge. Then someone stated that it wasn't called the Monster Challenge, so now I'm stumped.
It was obviously used as an opportunity to drum up interest in a new design. As motorcyclists we don't have the advantage of having huge shows like the North American Auto Show or Tokyo that manufacturers can roll out their new designs for thousands of people to oooo and ahhhh over. This sounds more like a grassroots movement to drum up interest in a new design. I think it worked. I was at DucPond's unveiling in DC and I didn't even know there was a contest, I just thought they modded it to mod it. There were a lot of other people that were at that unveiling that never would have looked into the Ducati booth, but they stopped, watched, and ended up taking a close look at the M1100.
Again, I think it worked, not as a Monster Challenge, but to create a little bit of interest. Not disagreeing with what anyone has said previously, just hoping to introduce a different angle.
Quote from: herm on January 18, 2009, 07:38:25 PM
but it was called the monster challenge...
at least it was in that video clip that someone posted...they guy presenting the bike referred to the whole deal as a monster challenge.
Something so simple sure can get twisted..... here is the info from the Ducati USA web site
DUCATI MONSTER 1100 S DEALER MONSTER CHALLENGEWelcome to the final stage of the Monster 1100 S National Premiere. We gave dealers across North America mere days to customize their Monsters. Although they were planning for weeks, the final products seen here were put together in the hours leading up to the M1100 S Premiere.
From simple to super-involved, Ducati's North American dealerships went all-out to show the potential of the new Monster line. When it comes to personalizing your Monster, there is no wrong answer. The fact is, the Monster let's you express yourself however and whenever you want.
The Monster's not all about looks however; at just 370lbs, the Monster 1100 S is the lightest bike in its class. The exceptional handling, combined with legendary torque from the Ducati engine results in a pure, adrenalin-filled ride.
The pictures have started rolling in and may change over the coming days as dealers lure photographers in to truly capture the essence of their bikes. So, check back often before making your final voting decision.
Click on the pictures below to get a closer look at each bike. Once you're ready, select the checkbox that corresponds with your your vote and submit the form by clicking the button at the bottom of the page. Make sure to enter your e-mail address for validation.
Visit your closest participating dealer to see the all-new Monster 1100 S first-hand!
there is the proof, it was a Monster Challenge..
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: Dave R on January 18, 2009, 09:04:35 PM
Something so simple sure can get twisted..... here is the info from the Ducati USA web site
DUCATI MONSTER 1100 S DEALER MONSTER CHALLENGE
Welcome to the final stage of the Monster 1100 S National Premiere. We gave dealers across North America mere days to customize their Monsters. Although they were planning for weeks, the final products seen here were put together in the hours leading up to the M1100 S Premiere.
From simple to super-involved, Ducati's North American dealerships went all-out to show the potential of the new Monster line. When it comes to personalizing your Monster, there is no wrong answer. The fact is, the Monster let's you express yourself however and whenever you want.
The Monster's not all about looks however; at just 370lbs, the Monster 1100 S is the lightest bike in its class. The exceptional handling, combined with legendary torque from the Ducati engine results in a pure, adrenalin-filled ride.
The pictures have started rolling in and may change over the coming days as dealers lure photographers in to truly capture the essence of their bikes. So, check back often before making your final voting decision.
Click on the pictures below to get a closer look at each bike. Once you're ready, select the checkbox that corresponds with your your vote and submit the form by clicking the button at the bottom of the page. Make sure to enter your e-mail address for validation.
Visit your closest participating dealer to see the all-new Monster 1100 S first-hand!
ahhhhhh, reading truly is fundamental
Quote from: Lance Goodthrust on January 18, 2009, 08:10:14 PM
Then I think they should have called it something else. The Monster 1100 Dealer Only Paint and Bolt On Challenge Contest?
once again, thats not true, Daytona has a custom hand cut clutch cover thats one of a kind, not painted or bolted on. So your statement doesn't apply.
Quote from: motogpfan on January 19, 2009, 08:02:39 AM
once again, thats not true, Daytona has a custom hand cut clutch cover thats one of a kind, not painted or bolted on. So your statement doesn't apply.
It was a joke, I wrote a longer post about why I think this contest was successful.
Quote from: motogpfan on January 19, 2009, 08:02:39 AM
Daytona has a custom hand cut clutch cover thats one of a kind, not painted or bolted on.
aren't they worried it will fall off?
Quote from: Lance Goodthrust on January 19, 2009, 08:30:27 AM
It was a joke, I wrote a longer post about why I think this contest was successful.
ahh, i see, sorry.
Quote from: Statler on January 19, 2009, 09:11:23 AM
aren't they worried it will fall off?
no way, It's super glued on.
they should have called it the "We want to hear Monster Owners pregnant dog and Complain More Challenge"
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 19, 2009, 10:11:14 AM
they should have called it the "We want to hear Monster Owners pregnant dog and Complain More Challenge"
[cheeky]
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 19, 2009, 10:11:14 AM
they should have called it the "We want to hear Monster Owners pregnant dog and Complain More Challenge"
The DMF could have won first place :-\
There is always next year [thumbsup]
mitt
Quote from: mitt on January 19, 2009, 10:24:28 AM
The DMF could have won first place :-\
There is always next year [thumbsup]
mitt
DMF FTW!!
we should have our own monster challenge and embarrass them (into doing the right thing).
2 categories: Speed Mods and Total Mods
1. Speed mods are done to a stock or semi-stock bike within a short period. You have to submit a photo of your bike with a current news paper to prove the date. Then you have a week (or a month?) to mod it, and resubmit with the same pic type (or some other proof). Everyone gets the same time to mod, and mods should mostly be off the shelf or some limited type.
2. Total Mods should be the full-on, no holds barred, any time limit (i.e. you've owned the bike for 10 years etc). Granted, this will winnow the pack a bit, but the idea is to get an idea of what can be done with the bike.
Do the contest twice a year, winners can't re-enter the same bike and cannot re-enter for 1 year.
Maybe a separate contest for vendors to showcase their shit.
There is no reason the largest coagulation of Monster owners in the USA (world?) could not do this.
Charge $5 to enter, winner gets a cut of the cash and whatever goodies sponsors will put up. Advertise the shit out of it so you get more people onto the board and participating.
Sell DMF Monster Challenge t shirts at all the rallies. Esp baseball hats, people LUUUUUV their baseball hats.
Anyone who pisses and moans about the outcome is banned.
Voting is done by an online poll so votes are tracked and only registered users can vote.
what say ye?
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 19, 2009, 11:43:44 AM
DMF FTW!!
we should have our own monster challenge and embarrass them (into doing the right thing).
2 categories: Speed Mods and Total Mods
1. Speed mods are done to a stock or semi-stock bike within a short period. You have to submit a photo of your bike with a current news paper to prove the date. Then you have a week (or a month?) to mod it, and resubmit with the same pic type (or some other proof). Everyone gets the same time to mod, and mods should mostly be off the shelf or some limited type.
2. Total Mods should be the full-on, no holds barred, any time limit (i.e. you've owned the bike for 10 years etc). Granted, this will winnow the pack a bit, but the idea is to get an idea of what can be done with the bike.
Do the contest twice a year, winners can't re-enter the same bike and cannot re-enter for 1 year.
Maybe a separate contest for vendors to showcase their shit.
There is no reason the largest coagulation of Monster owners in the USA (world?) could not do this.
Charge $5 to enter, winner gets a cut of the cash and whatever goodies sponsors will put up. Advertise the shit out of it so you get more people onto the board and participating.
Sell DMF Monster Challenge t shirts at all the rallies. Esp baseball hats, people LUUUUUV their baseball hats.
Anyone who pisses and moans about the outcome is banned.
Voting is done by an online poll so votes are tracked and only registered users can vote.
what say ye?
I say crack is wack.
It's the type of thing that would be good now that our costs are covered. We're still less than a year into this thing. Will need help organizing.
Quote from: Statler on January 19, 2009, 12:20:13 PM
It's the type of thing that would be good now that our costs are covered. We're still less than a year into this thing. Will need help organizing.
that's why you charge entry fees. make them small, but enough so the prize is worthy, maybe 50% of the entry fees, and the rest to expenses. it might take off slow, but then again, you might get the whole Monster Challenge dumped in your lap by DNA, with expenses covered if you run it well.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 19, 2009, 11:43:44 AM
DMF FTW!!
we should have our own monster challenge and embarrass them (into doing the right thing).
2 categories: Speed Mods and Total Mods
1. Speed mods are done to a stock or semi-stock bike within a short period. You have to submit a photo of your bike with a current news paper to prove the date. Then you have a week (or a month?) to mod it, and resubmit with the same pic type (or some other proof). Everyone gets the same time to mod, and mods should mostly be off the shelf or some limited type.
2. Total Mods should be the full-on, no holds barred, any time limit (i.e. you've owned the bike for 10 years etc). Granted, this will winnow the pack a bit, but the idea is to get an idea of what can be done with the bike.
Do the contest twice a year, winners can't re-enter the same bike and cannot re-enter for 1 year.
Maybe a separate contest for vendors to showcase their shit.
There is no reason the largest coagulation of Monster owners in the USA (world?) could not do this.
Charge $5 to enter, winner gets a cut of the cash and whatever goodies sponsors will put up. Advertise the shit out of it so you get more people onto the board and participating.
Sell DMF Monster Challenge t shirts at all the rallies. Esp baseball hats, people LUUUUUV their baseball hats.
Anyone who pisses and moans about the outcome is banned.
Voting is done by an online poll so votes are tracked and only registered users can vote.
what say ye?
excellent idea tizz
make it so.
Quote from: herm on January 19, 2009, 01:18:52 PM
excellent idea tizz
make it so.
+1
sounds cool, set it up.
Really, who gives a make the beast with two backs, I mean there has always been 14 guys in the world on here that don't like it and are vocal about.
Quote from: herm on January 19, 2009, 01:18:52 PM
excellent idea tizz
make it so.
Sounds good. Let us know where and when.
Quote from: gearhead on January 19, 2009, 02:05:30 PM
Really, who gives a make the beast with two backs, I mean there has always been 14 guys in the world on here that don't like it and are vocal about.
some of those 14 guys might have pull.
Quote from: motogpfan on January 19, 2009, 09:33:41 AM
ahh, i see, sorry.
No sweat. And Statler beat me to the not bolted on clutch cover jab. ;D
Hell, I'm just jealous because I have a black bike with no custom paint and a wet clutch with no clackitty clack. [bang]
And tizzz, you're idea is great. I would love to help out if the ball gets rolling.