Hi,
I know there are a few threads about removing the charcoal canister but I still have a couple of 696 related questions.
I have looked at the instructions here and i am basing my questions on it.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=3446.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=3446.0)
When I remove the canister I have two hoses coming to it. The large one that goes to the tank and the smaller one that connects to a tee and then the vertical and horizontal bodies.
Do i have to remove the hoses from the bodies and plug them or can i just plug the end of the smaller hose?
Do I have to find the drain hose and splice this to the vent hose or can I just leave the large one on it's own?
Thanks in advanced.
Quote from: andym on January 31, 2009, 04:34:34 PM
Do i have to remove the hoses from the bodies and plug them or can i just plug the end of the smaller hose?
You can just plug the hose, or even remove the T, and plug those 2 small hoses coming off the bodies. People on here have done it that way. You just want a pretty air tight plug, or your bike might run poor. But, most people use the M5's, since it is the neatest. Also, the Euro bikes do this (at least on 2003 vintage bikes).
Quote from: andym on January 31, 2009, 04:34:34 PM
Do I have to find the drain hose and splice this to the vent hose or can I just leave the large one on it's own?
I would splice them, but if the hose is long enough, you could just run it down by itself. Again, splicing is the cleanest (fewest parts). The question is - is the hose long enough by itself to get below the bike? In case fuel comes out of it, you don't want fuel splashing on bike parts - you want it dripping to ground.
If you do a search, I am sure there is more info specific for 696 emissions removal.
mitt
I removed the hoses coming off the throttle bodies, that you're talking about, and put vacuum caps (1/8) on the nipples instead of removing them and replacing with the screws (I'm pretty sure they are not m5's on the 696). Replacing the nipple/screws is neater, just make sure you use loctite on threads, if you have a bad seal it will affect how your bike runs. The vacuum cap suggestion is easier and safer if you're unsure of what you're doing. Of course the rubber of the vacuum caps could degrade eventually (are you preserving this bike for posterity or trading it in on an 1100 in a few years). Both work.
The hoses coming off your gas tank serve different purposes, If I remember correctly, the thicker one the right (which went to your canister) vents fumes and the slightly smaller one on the left is the gasoline overflow. Either way, if you go to the auto parts store for vacuum caps or the screws get an universal T-fitting and connect them somewhere out-of-site, most people seem to do this inside the trellis frame or just below it. As mitt said; gas dripping on a hot aircooled motor would be bad.
Also you're going to want the left hand air conveyor (part# 48410691A) without the slot for the canister. I got mine from my dealer for $24.95. Looks so much better.
Hope you don't live in California, they'll make you put the canister back on at inspection.
Thanks for the info.
I was trying to do this as a quick job because I though the instructions made it look tricky.
I originally tried to plug the end of the end of the tube coming from the throttle bodies, I thought I had a good seal but the morning after she wouldn't start. After a while and a bit of fiddling she came to life so not to bad. This made me come back here and search and search again for specifics. Whilst I didn't find everything I did find a link to the parts catalogues, which I used to compare the US and EU set-ups for the 696. This gave me a clearer picture of what I had to accomplish.
On the way home I stopped off and picked up some vacuum caps. When I had been removing the canister it looked as getting to the throttle bodies would be a real pain but it was so easy. The one on the same side as the cannister just needed some long nose pliers to grab the clip and off it came, the one on the other side was even easier once I had removed the shroud on that side.
I fitted the vacuum caps and all is good. She started straight away this morning. I have not yet located the other tube from the tank, I will look at this at the weekend, I wanted to make sure she was running well before cutting anything. I think I'll have to remove the tank covers to find this.
[thumbsup] nice, now someone come remove mine please? [cheeky]
Quote from: Special K on January 31, 2009, 06:28:51 PM
if you have a bad seal it will affect how your bike runs. The vacuum cap suggestion is easier and safer if you're unsure of what you're doing. Of course
I ran mine for a week each open and sealed, no difference in performance. Not being a hard core bike mechanic, I might be off base here but the carbon can is not air tight so the cables would not be vacuum sealed when they are plugged in. Understand this might make the bike run lean at first but wouldn't the computer adjust after a few rounds? Isnt that what the O2 sensors are for?
???
Quote from: zLoki on March 16, 2009, 04:33:22 PM
I ran mine for a week each open and sealed, no difference in performance. Not being a hard core bike mechanic, I might be off base here but the carbon can is not air tight so the cables would not be vacuum sealed when they are plugged in. Understand this might make the bike run lean at first but wouldn't the computer adjust after a few rounds? Isnt that what the O2 sensors are for?
???
I tend to agree, although on other posts some have complained of the bike running rough without a proper seal. I just erred on the safe (and easy) side with the vacuum caps. I didn't test it, like you, without I just went directly from one to the other. Ran fine before, ran fine after. May not matter, I'm no bike mechanic. Maybe a Ducati mech could chime in?
the lines to the manifold sre not sealed , they breath air to thr intake manifolds (thru' the cannister.)
the bike is intended to have that calbrated amount of air bleed into each manifold thru' an orifice. thus, plugging manifolds with caps will make it run rich.- the more usual technique is the run a tiny air filter at the end of the (manifold) hose (where you removed the cannister) in the case of a 696, you can make up something out of foam rubber, and tuck it behind the plastic cover that contains the various hoses on the left side ot the engine.
Not true, Zippo.
The lines from the throttle bodies that hook up to the charcoal canister have a check valve on the canister.
When the engine is running, the check valve closes shut, preventing the engine from sucking air out of the gas tank (remember, there's a vent in the gas cap that leads to open air, to prevent the tank from collapsing as the fuel gets consumed).
When the engine stops running, and the vacuum drops between the throttle bodies and the charcoal canister, the check valve opens up, and the gas fumes from the gas tank then get sucked into the charcoal canister. The next time the engine is started, those fumes get sucked into the engine as the amount of vacuum increases, and the check valve in the canister closes.
BC.
I feel the need to update here as time has passed I've seen the rubber vacuum caps degrade quickly (cracking from heat). i now strongly advice replacing the nipples (Beavis chuckle) on the throttle bodies with the m6 bolts as other wiser people have advocated. The one on the vertical cylinder is a little awkward, so a socket wrench with a u-joint is handy for this.
the setup i described, and installing a small filter, etc is typical for earlier Ducatis, and other bikes (916/996 have a complex double check valve in the gas cap, but that doesn't change anything i described.)
but in any event, several effects would seem to remain true:
-the idle mixture affected by air and/or fuel vapor bleeding into the manfolds,
- rubber caps can wear out (or blow-off in a backfire, they need clamps)
- it's pretty-much a safe bet that no fuel tank is ever going to collapse from the fuel being consumed-(the flow will simply stop long before that could ever happen eh?)
thanks
Quote from: Special K on August 03, 2009, 06:11:36 AM
I feel the need to update here as time has passed I've seen the rubber vacuum caps degrade quickly (cracking from heat). i now strongly advice replacing the nipples (Beavis chuckle) on the throttle bodies with the m6 bolts as other wiser people have advocated. The one on the vertical cylinder is a little awkward, so a socket wrench with a u-joint is handy for this.
+1 on using the bolts! [thumbsup]
so i'm doing this today.
let me see if im getting this right:
M6 bolts on throttle bodies (replacing whats there now)
T splice on the small and large tubes? this is where im lost. do i cut one to splice them?
some people say t splice, some say close them off!
what do i do
ok, so here is where i am at
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2712/4335128557_ed0c5a169c_o.jpg)
in the center of the photo you see three hoses. the left large hose went to the canister. Fumes right?
the center hose has the "T", and connects to the throttle bodies, which i am closing up with M6 screws and lock tight
the third appears to be the fual overflow, right? it connects directly where you see it, it just hangs from there. i may cut it a bit shorter. and i think, think is the key word, it connect to the tank right next to where the large fume hose does.
ami right here? i think im all good then, no T connecter needed? i may just cut the fume hose shorter then
where am i confused here people./
thanks in advance
DT
Splice the tubes and get er done.
Rubber vacuum caps work, but silicone vacuum caps are a great solution and last much longer.
ok my question is hich tubes. i used m6 screws on the throttle bodies. the onlly tube left is the thick one. in the picture, the lowest tube, that points directly to the ground, is that the fuel overflow?
i seem to be confused, since there were only three tubes attached to the canister
one is still attached to the canister, after removal
one goes to the throttle bodies (gone)
the other is the largest, which is for fumes, right? why do i need to splice this one, and to what?
Quote from: DucatiTorrey on February 06, 2010, 01:49:35 PM
ok my question is hich tubes. i used m6 screws on the throttle bodies. the onlly tube left is the thick one. in the picture, the lowest tube, that points directly to the ground, is that the fuel overflow?
i seem to be confused, since there were only three tubes attached to the canister
one is still attached to the canister, after removal
one goes to the throttle bodies (gone)
the other is the largest, which is for fumes, right? why do i need to splice this one, and to what?
two tubes come from the fuel filler on the tank. one is for fumes and one is for overflow. you splice them together just at the front of the tank and then the long overflow that goes under the motor is the only hose left.
perfect, thanks Raux, now where do i find that hose. I kno the fumes one, just need to locate the overflow. i thought i new where it was (at the tank, right next to the fumes hose) but i guess not.
any help?
you guys are a huge help
Quote from: DucatiTorrey on February 06, 2010, 02:44:38 PM
perfect, thanks Raux, now where do i find that hose. I kno the fumes one, just need to locate the overflow. i thought i new where it was (at the tank, right next to the fumes hose) but i guess not.
any help?
you guys are a huge help
take the tank panels off. you'll see everything more clearly.
Quote from: Raux on February 07, 2010, 12:37:55 AM
take the tank panels off. you'll see everything more clearly.
will do! Thanks.
so after removing the panels, i see tow hoses. This whole thing is making me seem pretty dumb...
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4338448366_3a3891acf6_m.jpg)
so hose "A" is the Fume hose, that one went to the canister.
Is Hose "B" the Overflow???
and if those are the correct hoses, is it smart to connect them here
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/4337717511_d7eaf6d0aa_m.jpg)
that would make the connection hidden behind the body panel. Will it fit?
thanks guys, just want to do a quality job here. :P
Quote from: DucatiTorrey on February 07, 2010, 09:13:13 AM
so after removing the panels, i see tow hoses. This whole thing is making me seem pretty dumb...
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4338448366_3a3891acf6_m.jpg)
so hose "A" is the Fume hose, that one went to the canister.
Is Hose "B" the Overflow???
and if those are the correct hoses, is it smart to connect them here
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/4337717511_d7eaf6d0aa_m.jpg)
that would make the connection hidden behind the body panel. Will it fit?
thanks guys, just want to do a quality job here. :P
Answer 1: Yep
Answer 2: Yep (take a look at the Euro spec parts manual and you'll see it)
Answer 3: Yep
you're right on track. just make sure you KEEP hose B . ie attach hose A to B and let hose be stay where it is going below the bike. Hose A is too short.
- it's pretty-much a safe bet that no fuel tank is ever going to collapse from the fuel being consumed-(the flow will simply stop long before that could ever happen eh?)
Never tried on any bike, but i can guarantee you it can happen on a car.
i once had a Plymouth suck a rather large dent in the bottom of the tank.
Quote from: Raux on February 07, 2010, 10:53:00 AM
Answer 1: Yep
Answer 2: Yep (take a look at the Euro spec parts manual and you'll see it)
Answer 3: Yep
you're right on track. just make sure you KEEP hose B . ie attach hose A to B and let hose be stay where it is going below the bike. Hose A is too short.
perfect, thanks!
Quote from: 64duc on February 07, 2010, 11:25:38 AM
- it's pretty-much a safe bet that no fuel tank is ever going to collapse from the fuel being consumed-(the flow will simply stop long before that could ever happen eh?)
Never tried on any bike, but i can guarantee you it can happen on a car.
i once had a Plymouth suck a rather large dent in the bottom of the tank.
Can happen on a bike.
Has happened on injected Monsters w/steel tanks. Don't know about a plastic tank, but anything's possible.
Quote from: Duck-Stew on February 08, 2010, 06:36:55 AM
Can happen on a bike. Has happened on injected Monsters w/steel tanks. Don't know about a plastic tank, but anything's possible.
That could solve the plastic tank expansion issue [bang]
Quote from: howie on February 08, 2010, 06:39:23 AM
That could solve the plastic tank expansion issue [bang]
Funny! ;D
Quote from: Duck-Stew on February 08, 2010, 06:36:55 AM
Can happen on a bike. Has happened on injected Monsters w/steel tanks. Don't know about a plastic tank, but anything's possible.
Lots of SS bikes too.
What's the story with passing inspection in the U.S. after doing this? I live in New Jersey; can anyone that's done this and gotten the bike inspected chime in?
No problem at this moment, plus the canister is only required by states that follow C.A.R.B. standards. The future? Who knows?
Quote from: ivn on February 23, 2010, 09:21:51 AM
What's the story with passing inspection in the U.S. after doing this? I live in New Jersey; can anyone that's done this and gotten the bike inspected chime in?
Technically, it's a federal offense. It is illegal to tamper with, disconnect, or disable any emissions control component except for the purposes of repair or replacement with an equivalent component. Yes, even if it's not required by your state.
Quote from: howie on February 23, 2010, 01:32:29 PM
No problem at this moment, plus the canister is only required by states that follow C.A.R.B. standards. The future? Who knows?
yeah ive heard this, especially with new states passing these emissions and DB laws
Quote from: Scissors on February 24, 2010, 03:57:40 AM
Technically, it's a federal offense. It is illegal to tamper with, disconnect, or disable any emissions control component except for the purposes of repair or replacement with an equivalent component. Yes, even if it's not required by your state.
thats the first i've heard this! oh well, ef em
Quote from: Scissors on February 24, 2010, 03:57:40 AM
Technically, it's a federal offense. It is illegal to tamper with, disconnect, or disable any emissions control component except for the purposes of repair or replacement with an equivalent component. Yes, even if it's not required by your state.
I guess it's a good thing it's a State inspection facility and not a Federal inspection facility? Anyway, I'll find out soon enough. Thanks everyone for your comments.
Quote from: DucatiTorrey on February 06, 2010, 11:44:11 AM
ok, so here is where i am at
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2712/4335128557_ed0c5a169c_o.jpg)
in the center of the photo you see three hoses. the left large hose went to the canister. Fumes right?
the center hose has the "T", and connects to the throttle bodies, which i am closing up with M6 screws and lock tight
the third appears to be the fual overflow, right? it connects directly where you see it, it just hangs from there. i may cut it a bit shorter. and i think, think is the key word, it connect to the tank right next to where the large fume hose does.
ami right here? i think im all good then, no T connecter needed? i may just cut the fume hose shorter then
where am i confused here people./
thanks in advance
DT
I have an 1100 and don't want to take the panels off--can I just splice the large hose and the smaller hose and be done? then do I have to use an M6 bolt on the throttle bodies? If I do, how long should the bolt be? If I don't what do I put the vacuum cap on?
Thanks...
the two nipple on the throttle bodies that the tubes attach to. you can either pull them out, measure them and use the correct size bolt, or get some silicone ends, not rubber, mine crapped out after a year, and put them over the ends.
for the overflow and vent, yes just t them near the tank and use the overflow long one as the only going away from the tank area.
But if I don't want to take the panels off can I splice the two hoses in Torrey's pic together behind the frame?
seriously taking the panels off is easy.
it's best to do it that way. in fact that's how the euro bikes comes stock. as well as with bolts in the throttle bodies.
OK, when I do this I will take them off. Thanks.
hey guys,
picked up my 2010 696 in the summer, and I want to remove the charcoal canister. Does anyone have detailed instructions along with photo guidance so I can just follow along step by step, because personally some of the instructions being given make no sense to me. Much appreciated if anyone has, Hope everyone are enjoying their monsters as much as I am. PZ
Quote from: zerocool696 on December 28, 2010, 06:58:02 AM
hey guys,
picked up my 2010 696 in the summer, and I want to remove the charcoal canister. Does anyone have detailed instructions along with photo guidance so I can just follow along step by step, because personally some of the instructions being given make no sense to me. Much appreciated if anyone has, Hope everyone are enjoying their monsters as much as I am. PZ
This
FAQ (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=3446.0) is for an earlier bike so locations will be slightly different, but it has all the info you need
if you search in the tech area i think, there are several writeups on taking them off, what you will need etc.
in fact, I think if you search in the moto wheels area, there is a thread about the side piece to replace the stock one with instructions...
here... http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=8630.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=8630.0)
Holy thread revival batman...
Just wanted to share something for those who do this in the future for the 696/796/1100:
I had capped mine off with the rubber caps... today riding home from work the bike idled at 3000rpm and wouldn't come down no matter what... = no engine braking! Got home and checked those caps to find they were cracked and for the horizontal cylinder, the end had come completely off....
Sooooooo my suggestion is to not go with the caps! Put screws in there!
They're not hard to find... I just replaced mine with screws left over from what I think was my tail tidy install... fit perfectly. I don't know the proper torque value, so I tightened them down to just past hand tight which is what the nipples felt like when I tweaked them off (yep, I meant to say that).
yep
I was about to remove the nipples and put in bolts, but a friend pointed out that it is much easier to do a throttle body balance if you leave the nipples in place, so I just cut the hoses to about 1 1/2 from the nipples, put in bolts in the hoses, and but hose clamps over that part. Still allowed me to yank the lines going to the canister.
Just my $0.02
I live in NH where emissions arent "required", I had the bike out in San Deigo when I was there for a work trip. I did the mod myself and used an inline hose barb to join the ends of the hoses from the throttle bodies as many do, and left the tank hose long. When I brought the bike in for the 7500 service (in CA), the dealer pulled the short hoses and installed rubber caps on the throttle body hose nipples.
The dealer never even batted an eye or mentioned it to me, the only way I knew they did it was when I had the bike appart to pull the stickers off the air box I noticed the mod I had done was gone and replaced by these caps. Probably the NH registration made them figure "not our problem" but just goes to show you, they arent ALL out to get us.
EDIT: I just re read the post above about the cracking rubber. Ill keep an eye on mine, but they were fine last time I looked (now almost another 6000 miles since the dealer capped them). Unless I have an issue, I'm going to stick with the caps.