696 Charcoal canister removal

[andym]

Hi,

I know there are a few threads about removing the charcoal canister but I still have a couple of 696 related questions.

I have looked at the instructions here and i am basing my questions on it.

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=3446.0

When I remove the canister I have two hoses coming to it.  The large one that goes to the tank and the smaller one that connects to a tee and then the vertical and horizontal bodies.

Do i have to remove the hoses from the bodies and plug them or can i just plug the end of the smaller hose?

Do I have to find the drain hose and splice this to the vent hose or can I just leave the large one on it's own?

Thanks in advanced.

[mitt]

Do i have to remove the hoses from the bodies and plug them or can i just plug the end of the smaller hose?

You can just plug the hose, or even remove the T, and plug those 2 small hoses coming off the bodies.  People on here have done it that way.  You just want a pretty air tight plug, or your bike might run poor.  But, most people use the M5's, since it is the neatest.  Also, the Euro bikes do this (at least on 2003 vintage bikes).

Do I have to find the drain hose and splice this to the vent hose or can I just leave the large one on it's own?

I would splice them, but if the hose is long enough, you could just run it down by itself.  Again, splicing is the cleanest (fewest parts).  The question is - is the hose long enough by itself to get below the bike?  In case fuel comes out of it, you don't want fuel splashing on bike parts - you want it dripping to ground.

If you do a search, I am sure there is more info specific for 696 emissions removal.

mitt

[Special K]

I removed the hoses coming off the throttle bodies, that you're talking about, and put vacuum caps (1/8) on the nipples instead of removing them and replacing with the screws (I'm pretty sure they are not m5's on the 696). Replacing the nipple/screws is neater, just make sure you use loctite on threads, if you have a bad seal it will affect how your bike runs. The vacuum cap suggestion is easier and safer if you're unsure of what you're doing. Of course the rubber of the vacuum caps could degrade eventually (are you preserving this bike for posterity or trading it in on an 1100 in a few years). Both work.

The hoses coming off your gas tank serve different purposes, If I remember correctly, the thicker one the right (which went to your canister) vents fumes and the slightly smaller one on the left is the gasoline overflow. Either way, if you go to the auto parts store for vacuum caps or the screws get an universal T-fitting and connect them somewhere out-of-site, most people seem to do this inside the trellis frame or just below it. As mitt said; gas dripping on a hot aircooled motor would be bad.

Also you're going to want the left hand air conveyor (part# 48410691A) without the slot for the canister. I got mine from my dealer for $24.95. Looks so much better.

Hope you don't live in California, they'll make you put the canister back on at inspection.

[andym]

Thanks for the info.

I was trying to do this as a quick job because I though the instructions made it look tricky.

I originally tried to plug the end of the end of the tube coming from the throttle bodies, I thought I had a good seal but the morning after she wouldn't start.  After a while and a bit of fiddling she came to life so not to bad.  This made me come back here and search and search again for specifics.  Whilst I didn't find everything I did find a link to the parts catalogues, which I used to compare the US and EU set-ups for the 696. This gave me a clearer picture of what I had to accomplish.

On the way home I  stopped off and picked up some vacuum caps.  When I had been removing the canister it looked as getting to the throttle bodies would be a real pain but it was so easy.  The one on the same side as the cannister just needed some long nose pliers to grab the clip and off it came, the one on the other side was even easier once I had removed the shroud on that side.

I fitted the vacuum caps and all is good.  She started straight away this morning.  I have not yet located the other tube from the tank, I will look at this at the weekend, I wanted to make sure she was running well before cutting anything.  I think I'll have to remove the tank covers to find this.

[NekkedChic]

   nice, now someone come remove mine please?   

[zLoki]

if you have a bad seal it will affect how your bike runs. The vacuum cap suggestion is easier and safer if you're unsure of what you're doing. Of course

I ran mine for a week each open and sealed, no difference in performance.  Not being a hard core bike mechanic, I might be off base here but the carbon can is not air tight so the cables would not be vacuum sealed when they are plugged in.  Understand this might make the bike run lean at first but wouldn't the computer adjust after a few rounds?  Isnt that what the O2 sensors are for?

[Special K]

I ran mine for a week each open and sealed, no difference in performance.  Not being a hard core bike mechanic, I might be off base here but the carbon can is not air tight so the cables would not be vacuum sealed when they are plugged in.  Understand this might make the bike run lean at first but wouldn't the computer adjust after a few rounds?  Isnt that what the O2 sensors are for?

I tend to agree, although on other posts some have complained of the bike running rough without a proper seal. I just erred on the safe (and easy) side with the vacuum caps. I didn't test it,  like you, without I just went directly from one to the other. Ran fine before, ran fine after. May not matter, I'm no bike mechanic. Maybe a Ducati mech could chime in?

[zippo]

the lines to the manifold sre not sealed , they breath air to thr intake manifolds (thru' the cannister.)
the bike is intended to have that calbrated amount of air bleed into each manifold thru' an orifice. thus, plugging manifolds with caps will make it run rich.- the more usual technique is the run a tiny air filter at the end of the (manifold) hose (where you removed the cannister) in the case of a 696, you can make up something out of foam rubber, and tuck it behind the plastic cover that contains the various hoses on the left side ot the engine.

[Bladecutter]

Not true, Zippo.

The lines from the throttle bodies that hook up to the charcoal canister have a check valve on the canister.
When the engine is running, the check valve closes shut, preventing the engine from sucking air out of the gas tank (remember, there's a vent in the gas cap that leads to open air, to prevent the tank from collapsing as the fuel gets consumed).

When the engine stops running, and the vacuum drops between the throttle bodies and the charcoal canister, the check valve opens up, and the gas fumes from the gas tank then get sucked into the charcoal canister. The next time the engine is started, those fumes get sucked into the engine as the amount of vacuum increases, and the check valve in the canister closes.

BC.

[Special K]

I feel the need to update here as time has passed I've seen the rubber vacuum caps degrade quickly (cracking from heat). i now strongly advice replacing the nipples (Beavis chuckle) on the throttle bodies with the m6 bolts as other wiser people have advocated. The one on the vertical cylinder is a little awkward, so a socket wrench with a u-joint is handy for this.

[zippo]

the setup i described, and installing a small filter, etc is typical for earlier Ducatis, and other bikes (916/996 have a complex double check valve in the gas cap, but that doesn't change  anything i described.)
but in any event, several effects would seem to remain true:
-the idle mixture  affected by air and/or fuel vapor bleeding into the manfolds,
- rubber caps can wear out  (or blow-off in a backfire, they need clamps)
- it's pretty-much a safe bet that no fuel tank is ever going to collapse from the fuel being consumed-(the flow will simply stop long before that could ever happen eh?)
thanks

[BumbleB]

I feel the need to update here as time has passed I've seen the rubber vacuum caps degrade quickly (cracking from heat). i now strongly advice replacing the nipples (Beavis chuckle) on the throttle bodies with the m6 bolts as other wiser people have advocated. The one on the vertical cylinder is a little awkward, so a socket wrench with a u-joint is handy for this.

+1 on using the bolts! 

[DucatiTorrey]

so i'm doing this today.
let me see if im getting this right:

M6 bolts on throttle bodies (replacing whats there now)

T splice on the small and large tubes? this is where im lost. do i cut one to splice them?

some people say t splice, some say close them off!

what do i do

[DucatiTorrey]

ok, so here is where i am at

in the center of the photo you see three hoses. the left large hose went to the canister. Fumes right?
the center hose has the "T", and connects to the throttle bodies, which i am closing up with M6 screws and lock tight

the third appears to be the fual overflow, right? it connects directly where you see it, it just hangs from there. i may cut it a bit shorter. and i think, think is the key word, it connect to the tank right next to where the large fume hose does.

ami right here? i think im all good then, no T connecter needed? i may just cut the fume hose shorter then

where am i confused here people./

thanks in advance

DT

[WetDuc]

Splice the tubes and get er done.
Rubber vacuum caps work, but silicone vacuum caps are a great solution and last much longer.