http://www.bakersfield.com/hourly_news/story/694207.html (http://www.bakersfield.com/hourly_news/story/694207.html)
my ex employers son.
The kid worked for me lots of times during the summer months.
Super nice kid. The very last person you would think is capable of something like this.
If he's guilty....burn him.
Not sure how I feel about this one...........
If he drugged them.........that is one thing.
But what is alleged is interesting.........so he liquored them up til they passed out and then raped them?
I wonder if the victims are all friends
I feel bad for his mom.
Her husband is in debt up to a million and is killing his business.
They have an autistic son
One daughter is away in college and another is just started high school.
and now this.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 19, 2009, 07:34:23 AM
Not sure how I feel about this one...........
If he drugged them.........that is one thing.
But what is alleged is interesting.........so he liquored them up til they passed out and then raped them?
I wonder if the victims are all friends
I don't know what to think of this either.
I've personally seen the whole:
"OMG I got so drunk I cheated on my boyfriend and woke up with some guy I've never seen before so I'm gonna cry rape"
I have no faith in the word of college age girls.
Nevertheless, if it is proven that actual rape went on, burn him.
Did the "victims" all get rape kits done at the hospital following the incident?
If so, then how the make the beast with two backs did it happen four times and he wasn't arrested after the first time?
The more I think about this, the more I think it is bullshit.
If the charge is true, well, alcohol is a drug. In which case... I do hope it is not.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 19, 2009, 07:48:51 AM
Did the "victims" all get rape kits done at the hospital following the incident?
If so, then how the make the beast with two backs did it happen four times and he wasn't arrested after the first time?
The more I think about this, the more I think it is bullshit.
+1
Quote from: El Matador on February 19, 2009, 07:42:39 AM
I don't know what to think of this either.
I've personally seen the whole:
"OMG I got so drunk I cheated on my boyfriend and woke up with some guy I've never seen before so I'm gonna cry rape"
I have no faith in the word of college age girls.
Nevertheless, if it is proven that actual rape went on, burn him.
Doesn't sound too far fetched to me. This same thing happened to an ex of mine before I met her. Got drunk, big guy forced himself on her when she was too wasted to really fight back and she was afraid to report it for exactly the reasons you stated.
So the fact that three came forward only after the first doesn't shock me in the least. Hope they aren't BSing. And, if not, maybe he'll learn what it's like to be on the other end of a rape.
This is troubling:
"Caskey was a ROTC member at the school but his commission was terminated after his arrest. He has been suspended from the university, where he was a senior majoring in politics."
They should treat this seriously and find out what happened one way or another, but guilty until proven innocent?
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 19, 2009, 07:48:51 AM
If so, then how the make the beast with two backs did it happen four times and he wasn't arrested after the first time?
They contacted police after interviewing the victim and the investigation revealed more victims."do you know this guy?"
"yeah, we hooked up after a party once..."
"were you drunk?"
"yeah, as a matter of fact i was..."
"...so you didn't give consent, then..."
"hey, yeah... that's right. i
didn't give consent.. wtf?! i wanna press charges, too!!"
I didn't give consent to my wife last night.............
can I press charges?
[laugh] [laugh]
tread lightly, gentlemen.
And teach your sons that it's bad to have one-night stands with women who are too drunk to legally consent.
Just for arguments sake, could the kid claim HE was too drunk for legal consent?
Quote from: Dan on February 19, 2009, 09:08:58 AM
Just for arguments sake, could the kid claim HE was to drunk for legal consent?
The american legal system is biased against men. They could probably find some added charge to add to the rape because he was drinking.
Quote from: Statler on February 19, 2009, 08:27:58 AM
tread lightly, gentlemen.
And teach your sons that it's bad to have one-night stands with women who are too drunk to legally consent.
That was a really friendly reminder.
Please heed it.
I'd give the girls the benefit of the doubt first, but i really hope this isnt true, he sounds like a nice kid from all the comments.
Remember The Duke rape case?
Easy folks. Rape is rape, and the attitude that women somehow asked for it (by being drunk?) is disgusting.
I had a male friend who was raped at a party once, same way. He passed out, and a crazy (batshit crazy, I went to school with her) girl blew him while he was unconscious. We never figured out why. He didn't care enough to do anything afterwards, but it was still pretty make the beast with two backsed up. This was in high school, and word got around pretty fast about what happened.
Sometimes it is the nicest people who are totally nuts. They hide the insanity behind a veil, and when it comes out no one expects it - but it was there all along.
Quote from: NeufUnSix on February 19, 2009, 10:18:19 AM
Easy folks. Rape is rape, and the attitude that women somehow asked for it (by being drunk?) is disgusting.
I don't think any of us said that.
My point wasn't to condone rape under any circumstances, it was a question about why society looks at her sobriety as a legal escape from the consequences of making irresponsible decisions. Should the same standard be applied to him.
I don't think anyone here has said that she asked it. They simply said there are too many cases of women getting intoxicated, having sex with someone, and then regretting it the next day. Some people chalk it up to a learning experience, some take it too far and say they were raped...
Was she unconscious or just not fully lucid?
If she was awake i have a hard time burning the kid. If she was out cold then he should burn for it.
Either way it's going to be one hell of a task to prove it in court unless others can corroborate the fact that she was unconscious and didn't consent. I'd think after the Duke case that DA's and jurors would be a little more cautious taking the victim at their word for it.
Consciousness does not equal consent.
Most of the comments in this thread only serve to show why date rape and, I guess you could call it party rape don't get reported. Popular opinion is that they must've wanted it or it wouldn't have happened. Right, cause that makes complete sense 100% of the time???
Don't assume he's guilty.
Don't assume she's a slut and her friends are cashing in.
Another legal question.........
If the women did not have rape kits done, then how do you actually prove that they were raped?
Quote from: DCXCV on February 19, 2009, 11:09:32 AM
Consciousness does not equal consent.
Most of the comments in this thread only serve to show why date rape and, I guess you could call it party rape don't get reported. Popular opinion is that they must've wanted it or it wouldn't have happened. Right, cause that makes complete sense 100% of the time???
Again, I don't think anyone said that.
What everyone is alluding to is that the story has some large holes in it that need to be patched up before an opinion is given.
And also, after the Duke case you'd think all the facts would come in before disciplinary action. The kid is kicked out of ROTC and we don't even know what really happened. Think of that poor Duke coach.
I personally know a girl who cried rape last year after getting too drunk. There was no rape. (albeit there wasn't 3 more people saying the same thing)
Innocent until proven guilty. (I'm not sticking up for the kid or the girls. I'm sticking up for justice)
*edit* what Cyrus said. ^^^^
I think what's being said is simply that sometimes having drunken sex seemed like a good idea at the time but come morning the reality of it sets in and rather than simply chalk it up to drunken sex sometimes it gets twisted into being rape as the accuser conveniently forgets she thought it was a good idea while drunk. We need more facts to *really* know what was going on.
If said girls in case were unconscious OR beyond any means of resisting then let him burn.
JM
people could just keep it in their pants unless it's with a partner they trust too.
People would be having a field day attacking the character of a teen girl being this promiscuous and stupid. (how often do we have DMF personal responsibility rants)
' simply having drunken sex' ? really? unwanted kids, unwanted STDs, the possibility that you are drunk enough that your judgement is impaired enough that you don't know the other person doesn't want to be there, hell...even with the thoughts here how many times can you sleep with a stranger who is drunk before at least one of them sees it differently.
The whole thing is sad.
The trial will be what the trial will be. shame no matter.
as allways, interesting to read people's points of view on the DMF [coffee]
Quote from: DCXCV on February 19, 2009, 11:09:32 AM
Consciousness does not equal consent.
True but consciousness would be required for it to be granted which is my point.
As far as your date rape comment. I'd say we've come along way. At least today the charge isn't immediately dropped and it's investigated fully.
Hell it wasn't too long ago that this exact scenario was fodder for a joke/scene in an all time favorite comedy for many people. I can't be the only one who remembers the toga party from Animal House and the angel and devil on the kids shoulder debating what to do with his passed out date.
BTW, I haven't seen anyone on here say she was "asking for it" or "deserved it" so maybe you're bringing those filters/bias with you.
Quote from: Statler on February 19, 2009, 11:32:54 AM
people could just keep it in their pants unless it's with a partner they trust too.
People would be having a field day attacking the character of a teen girl being this promiscuous and stupid. (how often do we have DMF personal responsibility rants)
' simply having drunken sex' ? really? unwanted kids, unwanted STDs, the possibility that you are drunk enough that your judgement is impaired enough that you don't know the other person doesn't want to be there, hell...even with the thoughts here how many times can you sleep with a stranger who is drunk before at least one of them sees it differently.
The whole thing is sad.
The trial will be what the trial will be. shame no matter.
as allways, interesting to read people's points of view on the DMF [coffee]
Sure and if people always took responsibility for themselves we'd have no crime, no dui deaths, no debtors, etc, etc... I'd bet that both of the parties involved in this case would take your advice and change their behavior that night if they could.
Ranting about a loose teen girl, calling her loose and a slut? the DMF has been there, done that in the now defunct politics during the election.
I've talked to several people about this, including women.
All of them think these girls need to be a bit more responsible in the decisions they made to drink that much.
EDIT: I am not blaming the rape on their decision to drink too much.
If they were indeed raped, then it is at the fault of the guy who took his pants off.
I was saying that people need to be more responsible in the decisions that they make, just a general rule.
I wasn't trying to say anyone here said she deserved it. I sort of ran on a tangent after my initial surprise at some of the comments on the first page.
Cowboy - my initial comment was going off this quote - sorry if I misinterpreted, but that's how it read to me:
Quote from: COWBOY on February 19, 2009, 10:58:21 AM
Was she unconscious or just not fully lucid?
If she was awake i have a hard time burning the kid.
And yes, I'm certainly biased - I think it's a horrible thing to do
and a horrible thing to lie about. Seems like there's a general concensus on that.
It sucks allright.
I guess my thought was more my lack of understanding because I never thought it was that difficult to not ever put myself in a situation where someone could say 'non consensual.' (and that's with the seven year college plan...finally graduating from a school where the biggest argument with the administration was whether paint counted as clothing for campus-wide parties...but I digress ;D)
If one's norm is drunken sex with strangers frequently then this is foreseeable outcome no matter who is telling the truth. Sometimes do-goody moral crap is for self-preservation...not the betterment of society as a whole.
Story should be required reading for all teenage boys.....and girls.
Quote from: Statler on February 19, 2009, 11:32:54 AM
people could just keep it in their pants unless it's with a partner they trust too.
A-make the beast with two backsING-men!
Maybe he slipped a few rohy's in their drinks. :-\
Personally, I have never drank so much booze to pass out, maybe I'm not drinking enough. :-\
Quote from: Statler on February 19, 2009, 02:43:01 PM
Story should be required reading for all teenage boys.....and girls.
Indeed.
My dad took me aside when I was around 16 and told me flat out "Real men don't have one-night stands with seriously drunk women." (along with "never hit a woman. Even if she deserves it")
Beyond that, it's all speculation. Innocent until proven guilty in my book.
Personally I'm with you on that Statler. I've never put myself in anywhere near that type of situation and in fact was careful not to.
I'd bet that's a lesson these 2 learn regardless of the outcome of the trial.
Overall I just wasn't enamored with the rush to judgment against the guy.
The Duke case certainly has me paying more attention let alone the fact that occured in the "law and order" conservative South let alone the supposed "free love" utopian world of Northern Cali.
I have a friend who drinks often and she flirts with people. She has no clue what she is doing.
Now flirting is NOT a open Invitation for anything but I do get concerned about her. Basically i don't trust guys to not take advantage of her.
I spoke to her about it that she needs to tone it down. We live in a unsafe world and even if your intentions are innocent you have no idea where it can lead.
Now for me I only get hit on by Drunk Woman... You know Beer Googles for woman ;D and I have turned down Sex twice from a very attractive women because of there state.
On a side note I have heard of rape charges by a wife who said her husband got her drunk and took advantage of her.
Quote from: Statler on February 19, 2009, 02:43:01 PM
If one's norm is drunken sex with strangers frequently then this is foreseeable outcome no matter who is telling the truth.
Definitely agree with that one.
People don't make the same decisions drunk as they would sober. That morning after you could feel completely different about what you did the night before after a dozen beers.
Also, not sure how many people when drunk like would think to use protection.
Quote from: Super T.I.B on February 19, 2009, 04:45:36 PM
Maybe he slipped a few rohy's in their drinks. :-\
Personally, I have never drank so much booze to pass out, maybe I'm not drinking enough. :-\
Physiologically, alcohol affects women differently than men beyond the simple fact of typical body mass differences between genders. A few drinks results in much greater intoxication levels in women than would the same few drinks for a man, given equal body mass. If I remember correctly it has mainly to do with muscle vs. fat composition inherently different in men and women. This alone makes drinking very dangerous for young women who may not have much experience in understanding how alcohol affects them, or in regulating their intake. As one of the few drugs that is both absorbed directly into the blood stream as well as through the digestive process, it presents a particular danger in college party-type situations where chugging, doing shots, and beer bongs are all too common (of course I'm 37 and those still apply occassionally [drink] ).
Rape is a horrid crime, and it is a horrid accusation to claim against someone falsely. IMO rapist should be neutered. It is also my oppinion that a woman who falsely claims rape should face penalties equal to any that the acused rapist would have.
Quote from: Scottish on February 19, 2009, 09:29:54 PM
Rape is a horrid crime, and it is a horrid accusation to claim against someone falsely. IMO rapist should be neutered. It is also my oppinion that a woman who falsely claims rape should face penalties equal to any that the acused rapist would have.
what do you suggest? Cause i thought for a long hard while and couldnt come up with anything aside from register as a sex offender, but i doubt that carries the same type of view by society as it does for a men.
Rape is despicable, but this kid`s life is make the beast with two backsed which ever way the verdict goes, what with having his face plastered all over the internet until proven guilty :o
FYI
none of us are privy to any facts other than those supplied by the paper.
I feel for the parents of all those involved.
be the boy or the girls guilty/drunk/sober/evil/innocent..... the parents suffer regardless.
Quote from: He Man on February 19, 2009, 10:07:37 PM
what do you suggest? Cause i thought for a long hard while and couldnt come up with anything aside from register as a sex offender, but i doubt that carries the same type of view by society as it does for a men.
Exactly the same treatment a man who was guilty of rape would face. Plaster her face across the interwebz, and news papers as a liar and ruinor of mens reputations. Humilate the false acuser in every way a rapist would be humiliated, and let them serve the prison sentence.
Mind you I'm not talking about someone who acuses a man of rape and the man walks for lack of evidence or any other reason. I'm speaking of those women who it can be proved that they deliberately lied about being raped. Example would be the Duke case, a woman lied and besmirched those mens reps, got them kicked from college ect, all by her word which was deliberate and false. She should be flayed publicly, alongside the prosecuter.
The prosecutor got his in the Duke case
Lost his job
and then he either got suspended from the state bar or they pulled his license.
I can't remember
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 20, 2009, 11:11:48 AM
The prosecutor got his in the Duke case
Lost his job
and then he either got suspended from the state bar or they pulled his license.
I can't remember
So it's possible you're spouting bullshit....
again? ;)
No one knows any of the details here so I'm not going to comment on that but this whole guilty until proven innocent stuff is BULLSHIT. The kid should have his day in court, then he can have his name dragged through the mud. Unfortunately the media loves this kind of stuff.