HOLY SHIT

[He Man]

I'd give the girls the benefit of the doubt first, but i really hope this isnt true, he sounds like a nice kid from all the comments.

Remember The Duke rape case?

[NeufUnSix]

Easy folks. Rape is rape, and the attitude that women somehow asked for it (by being drunk?) is disgusting.

I had a male friend who was raped at a party once, same way. He passed out, and a crazy (batshit crazy, I went to school with her) girl blew him while he was unconscious. We never figured out why. He didn't care enough to do anything afterwards, but it was still pretty make the beast with two backsed up. This was in high school, and word got around pretty fast about what happened.

Sometimes it is the nicest people who are totally nuts. They hide the insanity behind a veil, and when it comes out no one expects it - but it was there all along.

[cyrus buelton]

Easy folks. Rape is rape, and the attitude that women somehow asked for it (by being drunk?) is disgusting.

I don't think any of us said that.

[Ddan]

My point wasn't to condone rape under any circumstances, it was a question about why society looks at her sobriety as a legal escape from the consequences of making irresponsible decisions.  Should the same standard be applied to him.

[NAKID]

I don't think anyone here has said that she asked it. They simply said there are too many cases of women getting intoxicated, having sex with someone, and then regretting it the next day. Some people chalk it up to a learning experience, some take it too far and say they were raped...

[COWBOY]

Was she unconscious or just not fully lucid?

If she was awake i have a hard time burning the kid.  If she was out cold then he should burn for it. 

Either way it's going to be one hell of a task to prove it in court unless others can corroborate the fact that she was unconscious and didn't consent.  I'd think after the Duke case that DA's and jurors would be a little more cautious taking the victim at their word for it.

[DCXCV]

Consciousness does not equal consent. 

Most of the comments in this thread only serve to show why date rape and, I guess you could call it party rape don't get reported.  Popular opinion is that they must've wanted it or it wouldn't have happened.  Right, cause that makes complete sense 100% of the time??? 

Don't assume he's guilty.

Don't assume she's a slut and her friends are cashing in.

[cyrus buelton]

Another legal question.........


If the women did not have rape kits done, then how do you actually prove that they were raped?

Consciousness does not equal consent. 

Most of the comments in this thread only serve to show why date rape and, I guess you could call it party rape don't get reported.  Popular opinion is that they must've wanted it or it wouldn't have happened.  Right, cause that makes complete sense 100% of the time??? 

Again, I don't think anyone said that.


What everyone is alluding to is that the story has some large holes in it that need to be patched up before an opinion is given.

[Oldfisti]

And also, after the Duke case you'd think all the facts would come in before disciplinary action. The kid is kicked out of ROTC and we don't even know what really happened. Think of that poor Duke coach.

I personally know a girl who cried rape last year after getting too drunk.  There was no rape. (albeit there wasn't 3 more people saying the same thing)


Innocent until proven guilty.   (I'm not sticking up for the kid or the girls. I'm sticking up for justice)



*edit*   what Cyrus said.  ^^^^

[the_Journeyman]

I think what's being said is simply that sometimes having drunken sex seemed like a good idea at the time but come morning the reality of it sets in and rather than simply chalk it up to drunken sex sometimes it gets twisted into being rape as the accuser conveniently forgets she thought it was a good idea while drunk.  We need more facts to *really* know what was going on.

If said girls in case were unconscious OR beyond any means of resisting then let him burn.  

JM

[Statler]

people could just keep it in their pants unless it's with a partner they trust too.

People would be having a field day attacking the character of a teen girl being this promiscuous and stupid.  (how often do we have DMF personal responsibility rants)


' simply having drunken sex'   ?   really?    unwanted kids, unwanted STDs, the possibility that you are drunk enough that your judgement is impaired enough that you don't know the other person doesn't want to be there, hell...even with the thoughts here how many times can you sleep with a stranger who is drunk before at least one of them sees it differently.

The whole thing is sad.
The trial will be what the trial will be.  shame no matter.

as allways, interesting to read people's points of view on the DMF   

[COWBOY]

Consciousness does not equal consent. 

True but consciousness would be required for it to be granted which is my point.

As far as your date rape comment.  I'd say we've come along way.  At least today the charge isn't immediately dropped and it's investigated fully. 

Hell it wasn't too long ago that this exact scenario was fodder for a joke/scene in an all time favorite comedy for many people.   I can't be the only one who remembers the toga party from Animal House and the angel and devil on the kids shoulder debating what to do with his passed out date.

BTW, I haven't seen anyone on here say she was "asking for it" or "deserved it" so maybe you're bringing those filters/bias with you.

people could just keep it in their pants unless it's with a partner they trust too.

People would be having a field day attacking the character of a teen girl being this promiscuous and stupid.  (how often do we have DMF personal responsibility rants)


' simply having drunken sex'   ?   really?    unwanted kids, unwanted STDs, the possibility that you are drunk enough that your judgement is impaired enough that you don't know the other person doesn't want to be there, hell...even with the thoughts here how many times can you sleep with a stranger who is drunk before at least one of them sees it differently.

The whole thing is sad.
The trial will be what the trial will be.  shame no matter.

as allways, interesting to read people's points of view on the DMF  

Sure and if people always took responsibility for themselves we'd have no crime, no dui deaths, no debtors, etc, etc...  I'd bet that both of the parties involved in this case would take your advice and change their behavior that night if they could.

Ranting about a loose teen girl, calling her loose and a slut?  the DMF has been there, done that in the now defunct politics during the election.

[cyrus buelton]

I've talked to several people about this, including women.



All of them think these girls need to be a bit more responsible in the decisions they made to drink that much.



EDIT: I am not blaming the rape on their decision to drink too much.

If they were indeed raped, then it is at the fault of the guy who took his pants off.


I was saying that people need to be more responsible in the decisions that they make, just a general rule.

[DCXCV]

I wasn't trying to say anyone here said she deserved it.  I sort of ran on a tangent after my initial surprise at some of the comments on the first page.  

Cowboy - my initial comment was going off this quote - sorry if I misinterpreted, but that's how it read to me:

Was she unconscious or just not fully lucid?

If she was awake i have a hard time burning the kid. 

And yes, I'm certainly biased - I think it's a horrible thing to do and a horrible thing to lie about.  Seems like there's a general concensus on that.

[Statler]

It sucks allright.

I guess my thought was more my lack of understanding because I never thought it was that difficult to not ever put myself in a situation where someone could say 'non consensual.'   (and that's with the seven year college plan...finally graduating from a school where the biggest argument with the administration was whether paint counted as clothing for campus-wide parties...but I digress )

If one's norm is drunken sex with strangers frequently then this is foreseeable outcome no matter who is telling the truth.     Sometimes do-goody moral crap is for self-preservation...not the betterment of society as a whole.

Story should be required reading for all teenage boys.....and girls.