OK we took a poll and the aircooled Supersports based on the 696/1100 were the most popular
now let's decide on some specs.
we already know two motors are available. with minor tweeks and the sort, lets decide what we would want in the new SS
give a brief breakdown of target specs, design elements and layout for a 696 and 1100 based SS (can add cc's)
i'll take the best suggestions and turn them into a poll to finalize.
I want it monoposto. I'd like the pipes to be "low mount" but with the dramatic angle, so they point upwards quite a bit.
I'd like the half-faired option too, I really liked the look of those. And dry-clutch, since this is sport oriented.
A true Monoposto option would be cool. High mount or undertail exhaust. Dry clutch is a must for the bigger one. A fully adjustable, high quality suspension.
Look and feel like the 848.
USB data schnickschnack for everyone to get some race feel.
Total competition for the R6, 600 Ninja and Daytona.
Not more than 8000 Euro. (or AMERO , which should be out by then ;)
Race trim kit for another 2000
Designed like the upcoming 600 moto GP bike.
Yes, I am talking about a younsters dream bike,
Oh and while they are on the engine, drop the LEGO stuff and build a scrambler [beer]
If it looks and feels like an 848, then its not an SS. Its a SBK. Different beasts.
undertail or dual low mount exhaust
SSS
half-fairing option
mono option
dry clutch (at least on bigger motor)
fully adjustable suspension (at least on S model)
very light
affordable
price (needs to compete with 500-600cc japanese bikes)
light light light
new track rider friendly (not sure what this means exactly)
undertail exhaust (lowside damage avoidance)
easily removable lower fairing (newbie track training aid)
dry clutch (at least on 1100, but this may invalidate new rider friendliness)
fully adjustable suspension
I'd like to see an S or an S+ or, hell, an "R" that has your fully adjustable "Ohlins-esque" suspension, and factory slipper clutch. I'd also like to see Ducati start to impliment adjustable rearsets on all of their models. We aren't all the same size, I should have to buy aftermarket parts to get comfortable. Especially for my track oriented bike.
See Also: Track-Kits. a basic kit that you pop off the bolts on the existing stuff, unplug the wires, and replace the headlight/turnsignal mirrors/windscreen area with a new piece without all that stuff. A nice integrated system to make getting ready to go play on the track a nice situation.
BUT make this an aftermarket deal - the bike is set up for the street, and can be tracked with some tape on the headlights, etc, but with this kit, you drop weight, don't risk damaging your street plastics, etc. Oil catch belly pan included, etc.
I like the way that looks. Would still need an oil catch for track use though, no?
I guess there's no way for lateral mounting of the damper is there? Looks like at full-right, it'll nearly touch the front fairing.
ok let's get some numbers
copy and paste this and fill in the numbers for yourself for the small and large cc bikes
Weight:
HP:
Torque:
Price:
Engine Features:
Extras (monoposto, rearsets, etc):
Weight: Sub 350 pounds
HP: 100 - 110
Torque:75
Price:$10,000, $11,000 for S model
Engine Features:longer maintenance interval to compete with the big 4
Extras (monoposto, rearsets, etc):Mono, Rearsets, highmount or undertail exhaust, SSS
Quote from: Ducaholic on March 31, 2009, 03:26:53 PM
Weight: Sub 350 pounds
HP: 100 - 110
Torque:75
Price:$10,000, $11,000 for S model
Engine Features:longer maintenance interval to compete with the big 4
Extras (monoposto, rearsets, etc):Mono, Rearsets, highmount or undertail exhaust, SSS
Couldn't have said it better +1
must be able to see motor or I'm out.
If it's a half fairing/full fairing option the half cannot look like the lower panel is just missing....should be different upper as well.
Weight: less than 400 lbs
HP: 100 -110 hp
Torque: 80 ft.lb.
Price: within $1K of an 1100 Monster
Engine Features: 696 and 1100 versions.....but I'd also settle for the old 1000DS engine, Longer maintenance intervals
Extras (luggage, power outlets, etc): removeable luggage, Low seat height (31 inches) , adjustable (higher) handlebars, HID headlight, decent
wind protection, full and half-fairing options
And don't mess with success. No angular Japanese styling. No stupid looking headlights or Fischer-Price bikes allowed!!! Just use the classic SS bikes of the past as the design inspiration
Talking about a 696-based SS (or maybe an air cooled 848?)
Weight: <400 wet
HP: 90-ish
Torque: 60ish
Price: 10K
Engine Features:
Extras (monoposto, rearsets, etc): SSS, adjustable rearsets, and higher handlebars than the sbks. Undertail or shorty exhaust - a Ducati factory version of a quat-D would be nice. Low mounts defeat the purpose of making a track-capable bike IMO. Modern instrumentation - gear indicator, gas gauge, lap timer. Maybe an optional telemetry module.
As long as I am dreaming, I would love to see adjustable handlebars and an adjustable windscreen. Wireless HUD, and biometric security system ;D
Also, I assume y'all are talking about an 1100SS when you say 80 ft-lbs? That seems like a bit of a stretch to me?
Reading this, it occurs to me that I just need to buy an 848 and some helibars and rearsets. Nevermind...
SS sales were non-existent when the line was cancelled. Hard to see Ducati bringing the line back...especially given today's horsepower wars.
Quote from: Triple J on April 01, 2009, 09:20:13 AM
SS sales were non-existent when the line was cancelled. Hard to see Ducati bringing the line back...especially given today's horsepower wars.
You hush! ;D
Quote from: Triple J on April 01, 2009, 09:20:13 AM
SS sales were non-existent when the line was cancelled. Hard to see Ducati bringing the line back...especially given today's horsepower wars.
that's because the 'new' SS sucked.
low clip-ons, stretched out ergos, and the bike felt top-heavy.
(looks never really caught on either)
the 92-98 SS was really a good bike.
(and yes i do appreciate the irony of disagreeing with you when i said the same thing in the ST thread :) )
Quote from: Triple J on April 01, 2009, 09:20:13 AM
SS sales were non-existent when the line was cancelled. Hard to see Ducati bringing the line back...especially given today's horsepower wars.
they won't bring it back as a continuation, but possibly as an SC model.
give them another 4-5 years for the "oh, i miss the mid-90s SS" nostalgia to crest and they'll do it.
look how many people cream over an 860GT now.. they were dogs in every way back i nthe day, but now ppl spend money for those things.
I'm not arguing that supersports aren't cool...just that they don't sell well.
Why spend $10k-$12K on an underpowered sportbike (relatively speaking), when you can get a Japanese 600 cheaper? Sure, you'll all say that the twin has better characteristics, mid-range, blah, blah. Problem is, not enough people buy into that today. They all want horsepower.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 01, 2009, 09:39:38 AM
they won't bring it back as a continuation, but possibly as an SC model.
give them another 4-5 years for the "oh, i miss the mid-90s SS" nostalgia to crest and they'll do it.
Hmmm....could work with that angle.
What happened to Mark's concept SS picture? I glanced at it the other day in this thread I think and now its gone.
I love SS's !!! A new one is actually my dream bike, a light weight, versatile, DUCATI sport bike you can get old with,.... and still walk after riding long distances. Think Maserati Quatroporte of Ferrari Maranello on two wheels. A GT of sorts, a sport bike for a sophisticated active adult.
-Air cooled 1100 tuned for at least 100hp
-Dry Clutch.
-Full Fairing with close to no vents (similar to 90's SS but modernized)
-SS Swingarm
-Adjustable height clip-ons.
-Adjustable rear sets.
-Comfortable but slim seat with the alternative of a rear seat cover or monoposto.
-Standard (Showa suspension) or S (Ohlins suspension, Sterring Damper, CF goodies, etc) models.
-Ride height adjustability.
-Radial brembo calipers and master cylinders.
-Small Under seat storage (keys, lock, sun glases, etc. NOT A FAT TOURING TAIL PLEASE!).
-Shorty (Rossi's style) or under-engine exhaust (lower unit on Demosidici) to allow for optional saddle bags.
-NO FAT COWS PLEASE, just a comfortable but very SPORTY DESIGN.
I get attached to my bikes and would love to be able to have a sporty bike that does not become obsolete in 2 years. A timeless classic.
a lightweight super cool bike with 90 hp would be great. In four years it will still be a lightweight super cool bike. In four years a modern inline four will be just outdated.
Being the sharpest tool is self limiting...you always need to update.
There must be a market for a hardcore very lightweight air-cooled twin sportbike for grownups who know motorcycles are about more than numbers.
Quote from: Statler on April 01, 2009, 04:45:41 PM
There must be a market for a hardcore very lightweight air-cooled twin sportbike for grownups who know motorcycles are about more than numbers.
There is...it's just too small! ;)
I think it'd be cool too though.
What? No photoshop pics?!
Waste of time this thread................
:P
Quote from: Triple J on April 01, 2009, 09:20:13 AM
SS sales were non-existent when the line was cancelled. Hard to see Ducati bringing the line back...especially given today's horsepower wars.
I think its had more to do with the bike looking like a*s !!! If Ducati manages to come up with a beautiful design and use a large amount of existing parts, it would be money in the bank. The old 90's SS was beautiful but dated, the newer one was horrible and still dated. Those headlights were some of the most horrible pieces of industrial design Ducati has ever conceived. The face os a faired bike is almost as important as how it runs, they need to give you the right look when you look at them in the eye.
Quote from: Triple J on April 01, 2009, 10:30:45 AM
Why spend $10k-$12K on an underpowered sportbike (relatively speaking), when you can get a Japanese 600 cheaper? Sure, you'll all say that the twin has better characteristics, mid-range, blah, blah. Problem is, not enough people buy into that today. They all want horsepower.
I'd agree with that if the bike tried to succeed being a low power superbike type tool. But that is not what this bike should be. It should be a sporty lightweight comfortable bike with 100hp and comfortable ergos. The 2 wheel equivalent of a GT car, not a super car with a slow engine. I am not old yet, but I do like to go for long rides out of town in a comfortable bike and even venture into some track days. However, even the most sport oriented of sport touring bikes looks and feels like a big fat cow.
Quote from: jftoha on April 01, 2009, 09:20:16 PM
I'd agree with that if the bike tried to succeed being a low power superbike type tool. But that is not what this bike should be. It should be a sporty lightweight comfortable bike with 100hp and comfortable ergos. The 2 wheel equivalent of a GT car, not a super car with a slow engine. I am not old yet, but I do like to go for long rides out of town in a comfortable bike and even venture into some track days. However, even the most sport oriented of sport touring bikes looks and feels like a big fat cow.
I don't disagree...I just think there aren't enough other people out there who feel the same to justify a new SS model. :-\
a street legal NCR millona with a trelis swingarm and the right headlight would do it for me.
(http://www.ncrfactory.com/eng/images/millona/foto/01.jpg)
(http://www.ncrfactory.com/eng/images/millona/foto/08.jpg)
Quote from: Statler on April 02, 2009, 09:11:02 AM
a street legal NCR millona with a trelis swingarm and the right headlight would do it for me.
For sure...I'd buy one of those in a second. :o
Quote from: Statler on April 02, 2009, 09:11:02 AM
a street legal NCR millona with a trelis swingarm and the right headlight would do it for me.
looks great, but i would also like something affordable
Quote from: Alexandre on April 02, 2009, 10:05:39 AM
looks great, but i would also like something affordable
i wonder if he meant the look or the entire shebang
the NCR bikes have tasty bits like carbon fiber everywhere, magnesium engine covers/cases and titanium tube exhausts.. change that to PCA, regular aluminum and stainless and you could probably duplicate it for a more common price.
Yeah, I think the point was styling, really the whole feel of the NCR. The NCR takes what an SS would be and readys it for the track.
If you took the layout and engineer of the NCR as a prototype and built a street bike from it, I think you'd have a real winner.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 02, 2009, 10:17:48 AM
i wonder if he meant the look or the entire shebang
the NCR bikes have tasty bits like carbon fiber everywhere, magnesium engine covers/cases and titanium tube exhausts.. change that to PCA, regular aluminum and stainless and you could probably duplicate it for a more common price.
i guess i take things to literally...
I like the look of the half fairing, and the overall feel of the bike but would like to see a SSS
Quote from: Alexandre on April 02, 2009, 02:31:00 PM
i guess i take things to literally...
I like the look of the half fairing,
does it remind you of this:
(http://www.paradisecycles.com/Images/Image51.jpg)
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 02, 2009, 04:14:46 PM
does it remind you of this:
Well, of course.
I mentioned before that I would like the half fairing option, and I like this idea of one; less SV650S angular and more flowing like these.
3 pages of responses and no one's mentioned Hunter S. Thompson yet.
I want a hunch backed, bright red, warp speed cafe racer.
As to why an SS over a superbike
"Pure speed in sixth gear on a 5000-foot straightaway is one thing, but pure speed in third gear on a gravel-strewn downhill ess-turn is quite another." - HST
Well, to quote Hunter S. Thompson in reference to the Ducati's SS.
" I rather be shot out of a cannon than squeezed out of a tube"
Now, that is living life to the fullest!!!
Quote from: superjohn on April 02, 2009, 05:25:03 PM
3 pages of responses and no one's mentioned Hunter S. Thompson yet.
I want a hunch backed, bright red, warp speed cafe racer.
As to why an SS over a superbike
"Pure speed in sixth gear on a 5000-foot straightaway is one thing, but pure speed in third gear on a gravel-strewn downhill ess-turn is quite another." - HST