ok, folks,
A couple new people joined posting pics of their bikes. I think they got both a warm and cold reception depending on how people saw the posts.
I viewed both as a little heavy handed in terms of looking at the DMF as potential customers, some viewed the posts as exciting and enthusiastic, and some as blatant advertising.
I don't think any of the flounders saw them the same way by the way and we may all chime in here.
So I wanted to throw some thoughts out there to discuss a little.
Nobody wants to drive any enthusiasts away. I'd rather have people post cool builds and discuss stuff than pay as a sponsor...next best choice is people who want to find customers here but who are enthusiasts who don't have tons of time to chat here but who help the forum out in exchange for the customer base. Then comes people who really just run the ads for the business and don't contribute to here wise.. and least favorite are folks who don't participate, do want to run ads, and don't want to help out with costs.
We've said it's not a business and we're sticking to that. We do have to balance what's fair to sponsors who do pay sponsorship.
I think everyone wants to see bikes from DesmoRR and eurosports. Let's welcome them to discuss the bikes. We will find a cool balance or we won't. Not the end of the world.
Some people in the filed of bikes help the place out with knowledge. Some people help the place out with money. Some a little of both.
Well, I think as long as someone isn't blatantly hawking their services, it's fine to post up pics of a tasty mod / Bike / whatever.
I was really interested to see the pics that euro sport posted of their bike BUT there's no much point to them if we can't buy any of the parts or have enough info to perform any of the mods. I wouldn't have any problem with their post if it had included info about the mods/time/cost so that it could give the community some specific information that they could use.
Generally speaking, I'd prefer that vendors keep their posts to their own forum if there isn't a tangible benefit to the community (for free) from their posts, if not get rid of it. Obviously there's a lot of gray here and I feel like the eurosport post was very close if not over the line of what's acceptable. In that case, round down (or up) and get rid of the post or instruct the poster to include more information, something like what would go into bike of the month (bike of the quarter now? :P). That would make it a self contained post that would allow members to get good info and enjoy it.
I'm sure there are lots of bikes on this site that have parts that cannot just be ordered. It's a one of a kind bike. Now if he had given a link with prices for everything that's on the bike, that would definitely be over the line.
Because this is a site for motorcycle enthusiasts, sometimes all it takes is a picture to inspire or appreciate the machines. Not a parts list.
I personally would also like more info on the bike too. But I think it's more important to welcome other enthusiasts and everyone will find their place. Be it a vendor, builder, service shop or just rider.
boobies
Quote from: OverCaffeinated on May 15, 2009, 12:15:56 PMI'm sure there are lots of bikes on this site that have parts that cannot just be ordered. It's a one of a kind bike. Now if he had given a link with prices for everything that's on the bike, that would definitely be over the line.
Because this is a site for motorcycle enthusiasts, sometimes all it takes is a picture to inspire or appreciate the machines. Not a parts list.
I personally would also like more info on the bike too. But I think it's more important to welcome other enthusiasts and everyone will find their place. Be it a vendor, builder, service shop or just rider.
The definition of enthusiast is at the heart of this issue IMO.
I was thinking that if you drew up a serious build list you'd at least include information about the parts you got. For example, the exhaust, was it custom made (obviously) where? How long did it take? If eurosport made it, are they thinking of making them for sale? If none of the parts or mods are possible without buying them from eurosport then the bike doesn't belong in the regular site IMO, it should be in the vendor's site. Like when you watch monster garage & they give you build costs & all that.
I think we agree generally that more info would make the post (more) useful I just think that posting pics of the bike without any info & a suggestion to call them doesn't actually benefit the community at all.
What do you think about the idea of having the bike as BOM?
Free discussion? Cool. Cuz I've had a pointless rant building in me, but held off initially b/c I didn't want to chase away folks coming to the DMF with cool work on the newest monsters. ;D
Here's what's buggin' me-- I'm getting pretty f'n sick of these dealer "builds." I would really like someone to actually "build" a bike. It's exciting that eurosports did exactly that -- build a bike. But then they came here and said "here are pics. Call us or come to our website for more information." Well, screw you then. Don't just talk dirty, lick the tip once, and then try to charge $50 for the full treatment. That's a professional--an enthusiastic pro, but a pro nonetheless.
As for revercorsa, it sounds like they do some really, really cool work (carbon & TI frames. my, my . . . ). But based on what they came here with, they must think we're either (a) a buncha OCC monkeys who drool in direct proportion to how garish a paint job they put on their bike (which may not be wrong, unfortunately) or (b) some side-hat-wearing douchebags (which also may not be wrong) who get a stiffy any time you unthinkingly mix one brand with another. Look, it's a Fendi master cylinder!!! Woot!
Whew. Glad I got that out of my system. I didn't really mean most it, but it seemed like a good morning for rant. ;D In truth, I thought both the bikes were interesting. I wish the original posters had told us more about the bikes, what they were going for with their builds and what cool nuggets we couldn't see from the pics (for example, there's a lot of cool stuff on that douchebag bike that you might otherwise miss). I wish they'd show in their posting a little more of the enthusiasm I'm sure they have for their work. That said, I went to the bank to take out $50. [evil]
Evil, I agree with most of your thoughts. I don't mind seeing or reading about their bikes but I would like to know a little more of what went into them and how/where they got the parts.
However, I think the BOM should be saved for members bikes. Usually there is a good background story and the mods/things done to the bike are usually things that most of us could do/buy not a lot of handmade parts that there is no way I (or most of us) could produce. My favorite part of the BOM is seeing what real riders have done to their Monster and adding/taking away from my list of things to do.
Contribute or don't come to the party [thumbsup]
The thing that really pissed me off was showing a bike with lots of one off mods but no explanation of those mods, but instead says email or call me. make the beast with two backs that. I can cruise over to ducati.ms if I want to get slammed with advertising or worse yet, I could go back to the evil old site. There are quite a few people on here that participate in the forum that are also in the motorcycle industry. Those people usually have something to offer the community instead of just advertisement.
Jon
The pros posting up the new builds are showing their potential market what they have done. We are their potential market, so why not show us? On some of the other boards I frequent, that may be all they need to do to generate interest, and get folks to their website or in their door. Here, though, I think we're a little different bunch. I think a large percentage of members here do their own wrenching, and mod their own bikes. When the new posts showed up, I was (and still am) very interested, but I want to see more details. I want to see the specs and closeups like other bike build threads.
It's not such a bad thing to see these types of posts, even if only to promote a new rearset or other custom part. Heck, there's a thread now for Rizoma parts coming to market and a I see a lot of positive interest there.
What it all boils down to is this, I love my Duc, and I relish every build story I can find on this board. It doesn't matter if it's HeMan burning down his garage with his 'new' powdercoating oven, or a multi-thousand dollar pro-built water-cooled 696 monstrosity. I hope to see more every day.
Quote from: Mash on May 15, 2009, 01:40:03 PM
The pros posting up the new builds are showing their potential market what they have done. We are their potential market, so why not show us? On some of the other boards I frequent, that may be all they need to do to generate interest, and get folks to their website or in their door. Here, though, I think we're a little different bunch. I think a large percentage of members here do their own wrenching, and mod their own bikes. When the new posts showed up, I was (and still am) very interested, but I want to see more details. I want to see the specs and closeups like other bike build threads.
It's not such a bad thing to see these types of posts, even if only to promote a new rearset or other custom part. Heck, there's a thread now for Rizoma parts coming to market and a I see a lot of positive interest there.
What it all boils down to is this, I love my Duc, and I relish every build story I can find on this board. It doesn't matter if it's HeMan burning down his garage with his 'new' powdercoating oven, or a multi-thousand dollar pro-built water-cooled 696 monstrosity. I hope to see more every day.
Thats fine and all, but some of this seems to be posting up specifically to generate interest, and thus, revenue. That is advertising-why should they get to do it for free when there's a whole long list of sponsors on the left who pay good money for it? There's a reason I get my parts from CA-cycleworks-they don't annoy me, and they contribute to a forum I enjoy.
I can see both sides. Like many of you, I saw the pics, but wanted WAY more info and pics than they actually posted. I certainly have no intention of "calling or emailing" anyone to find out more. Now, if they had linked to a page that gave more info about what and how they achieved that, I'd be more interested. Even if that site was, in fact, a site where they also want to sell their services or products.
But to show a pic with little to no clarification, and that is all... seems a little like prospecting for business, and I can see the concern members have about that activity.
I guess they MAY want to protect their intellectual property in case they decide to produce these for market. I think that can be safeguarded by not showing detailed step by step with parts lists. But, they could still show the product clearly without giving away all of their "secrets". We, as self-modders, may try to create something similar on our own, but they may able to manufacture and produce these at a volume that makes it easier to just purchase one of theirs.
Or, maybe they just posted pics and had no sub-intention of gaining business.
The BOMs are similar... we can see what they did, read a list of the mods... but that doesn't mean that there's enough info there to copy the bike. But certainly enough for inspiration.
So, I enjoyed seeing the pics, wish I could have learned more about them, easily, and may someday use those mod ideas on my own ride. No different than what I do when the rest of you post mod pics. [evil]
Quote from: MrIncredible on May 15, 2009, 03:06:11 PM
Thats fine and all, but some of this seems to be posting up specifically to generate interest, and thus, revenue. That is advertising-why should they get to do it for free when there's a whole long list of sponsors on the left who pay good money for it? There's a reason I get my parts from CA-cycleworks-they don't annoy me, and they contribute to a forum I enjoy.
^^^
I think this is what I meant to say. There are some sponsors here that have contributed a great deal to this forum and community. I would rather support them as they support us. Thanks for the chance to openly discuss this Statler.
Fellow Riders, I am sorry if posting a few pictures of my Monster 996 has caused so many panties to bunch up. I thought people would appreciate the bike and i only mentioned Eurosports because that is where the bike is at for people to see. The bike was bought and is going to a new home in a week and we will not see it for some time. So at this point I would like you to remove my bike from your forum and I will find some where else to show my bike for free. I only posted my bike because you guys ask for updated pics and more info, but after all of this id rather not bother!!!! Thanks, Bryan
I think folks would just like to see more detailed pics, and an explanation of the various mod's. [popcorn]
i had a big rant, but spidey stole most of it, and mrincredible took what was left.
dang Bryan left
FOODFIGHT!
Quote from: eurosports on May 15, 2009, 04:19:11 PM
Fellow Riders, I am sorry if posting a few pictures of my Monster 996 has caused so many panties to bunch up. I thought people would appreciate the bike and i only mentioned Eurosports because that is where the bike is at for people to see. The bike was bought and is going to a new home in a week and we will not see it for some time. So at this point I would like you to remove my bike from your forum and I will find some where else to show my bike for free. I only posted my bike because you guys ask for updated pics and more info, but after all of this id rather not bother!!!! Thanks, Bryan
Wow, did you just miss the point, you go and throw a picture of a very well engineered bike, with no info, no Detail.
Doing something like that pisses me off and is damn annoying, We want detail!
And to then tell us to call or Email because you are to lazy to fill in that details is just rude.
If I see a bike like that I/we want to know more, how was it done, what inspired you to do it, what was easy, what was difficult, what things caused problems that you didn't expect.
Where ever I can I support our Forum sponsers when making a purchase, but that doesn't mean I don't look at what other companies or manufacturers are doing, I just support the guys that support us first, I can understand people trying to bring there products on a forum that is frequented by people who love there bike's and want to do mods and upgrades, but to just dump a picture on a forum and then not give us any detail or information is just annoying and looks like advertising.
As soon as I saw your post I was intrigued, but with no detail or Information I clicked "back" and promptly ignored the topic.
Give us Detail and Information, or don't bother.
Well, I was on the fence until I saw ES' post.
It gave me that queasy "I want the most free publicity with the least effort possible on my part, kthxbai!" feeling...
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on May 15, 2009, 05:00:47 PM
Well, I was on the fence until I saw ES' post.
It gave me that queasy "I want the most free publicity with the least effort possible on my part, kthxbai!" feeling...
Guess I was wrong, too. He posted, got everyone's attention, then bailed. shows very little integrity. good luck finding any business from these 4439 potential customers.
Quote from: eurosports on May 15, 2009, 04:19:11 PM
Fellow Riders, I am sorry if posting a few pictures of my Monster 996 has caused so many panties to bunch up. I thought people would appreciate the bike and i only mentioned Eurosports because that is where the bike is at for people to see. The bike was bought and is going to a new home in a week and we will not see it for some time. So at this point I would like you to remove my bike from your forum and I will find some where else to show my bike for free. I only posted my bike because you guys ask for updated pics and more info, but after all of this id rather not bother!!!! Thanks, Bryan
Bryan,
You work for eurosports...
You be full of shit.
Buh Bye.
Boobays now?
Quote from: Mash on May 15, 2009, 01:40:03 PM
It doesn't matter if it's HeMan burning down his garage with his 'new' powdercoating oven.
WHys it gotta be me burning down my garage? huh? why cant it be the other two members who set thier bikes on fire? huh? huh . ;D
I was going to suggest we give Bryan a chance. Well, it looks like he used up his chance in advance.
Well, seeing this discussion is done, Should we move onto the far more interesting subject of Boobies? [popcorn]
Wow, who's going to pick up all these toys now? [laugh]
Boobays you say? I'm intrigued, where can I learn more?
Surprised there's no policy yet about this sort of thing.....opportunistic, self-serving, free ads ought to be deleted asap.
If an *mway-type salesman slipped in and started hawking stuff at a BBQ party I was having at my house - he'd/she'd be on the street pretty quickly.
But, then I am a curmudgeon....
Quote from: OT on May 15, 2009, 09:23:36 PM
Surprised there's no policy yet about this sort of thing.....opportunistic, self-serving, free ads ought to be deleted asap.
If an *mway-type salesman slipped in and started hawking stuff at a BBQ party I was having at my house - he'd/she'd be on the street pretty quickly.
But, then I am a curmudgeon....
There is a policy. Thats why we have awesome PAID sponsors. And its also why there's this discussion taking place.
These couple of posters are just over the line or right on the line and are not paying a little money each month for sponsorships. So Statler kindly informed the community and opened it for discussion.
That being said, one of the guys seems to have screwed himself over earlier in this thread. Dumb move.
One piece of information is missing here.
Did anybody ask them to contribute? Personally I don't really see what the big deal is. If they're approaching a percieved community line, couldn't somebody just kindly ask them to modify their post to be less advertis-ey, or ask them to make a contribution? If they respond with the MA state bird, then that's another story, but the original posts seem well intentioned. It's when all the cool kids started shitting on them that it escalated.
As a new member here as well as being new to monsters and motorcycling in general, it seems that the builds in question here were the work of enthusiasts with a ton of knowledge and skill... qualities which we all respect and admire, and qualities which we all aspire to learn from. As much as I see the point in "free advertising," I think that the amount of shit that's been spoken here is a bit out of control. Shouldn't we be trying to attract people with these qualities? ...bring them into the fold?
Where do we draw the line? Should we as a community ban people because they are employed by people who are moto-related who aren't direct contributors? I know that the parts guy at my local dealership is an occasional contributor here... should we ban him if he says "come down to the shop and let's see what we can do about your issue"?
Personally, I say cut them a little slack. They're not unlike a lot of us... they just have jobs doing what we love doing.
I did. No response. [popcorn]
Quote from: Takster on May 15, 2009, 10:52:33 PM
One piece of information is missing here.
Did anybody ask them to contribute? Personally I don't really see what the big deal is. If they're approaching a percieved community line, couldn't somebody just kindly ask them to modify their post to be less advertis-ey, or ask them to make a contribution? If they respond with the MA state bird, then that's another story, but the original posts seem well intentioned. It's when all the cool kids started shitting on them that it escalated.
As a new member here as well as being new to monsters and motorcycling in general, it seems that the builds in question here were the work of enthusiasts with a ton of knowledge and skill... qualities which we all respect and admire, and qualities which we all aspire to learn from. As much as I see the point in "free advertising," I think that the amount of shit that's been spoken here is a bit out of control. Shouldn't we be trying to attract people with these qualities? ...bring them into the fold?
Where do we draw the line? Should we as a community ban people because they are employed by people who are moto-related who aren't direct contributors? I know that the parts guy at my local dealership is an occasional contributor here... should we ban him if he says "come down to the shop and let's see what we can do about your issue"?
Personally, I say cut them a little slack. They're not unlike a lot of us... they just have jobs doing what we love doing.
[thumbsup]
Quote from: Takster on May 15, 2009, 10:52:33 PM
One piece of information is missing here.
Did anybody ask them to contribute?
EVERYONE asked them to contribute information and not just post teaser pics with a note to call them.
Goes back to the forum guidelines (modified for commercial purposes):
1) Will others think I'm being a jerk spammer?
2) Would I say this in front of my mother a friend (as opposed to someone I'm selling to)?
3) Does this post contribute to the board or add value to this thread?
4) Is this post on topic more than just an advertisement? Should I begin a new thread become a sponsor?
I took it as spamming the board, they drop in a photo of a product, tell people if they want info on that product they must call or email the store that owns it, last time I checked they are spamming.
Quote from: He Man on May 15, 2009, 06:59:20 PM
WHys it gotta be me burning down my garage? huh? why cant it be the other two members who set thier bikes on fire? huh? huh . ;D
dude, you posted so much about what you were doing, and I was captivated. I read your posts every day waiting for the shots with fire trucks. Instead all I got was pics of beautifully powdercoated scooter parts.
I started this thread to get feedback from members as it is a difficult area....and to see where members' thoughts were. And as I said, the admins, just like the members, are of varied opinions.
Hoped some discussion would keep people around if they were real enthusiasts and maybe get people excited to be a part of what I think is a great group of Duc riders. (many of whom do have disposable income for these things ;)).
We have a lot of sponsors who participate regularly in all sorts of discussions...AND they help us out. Great group of people.
I don't want anyone to go away. I would like either that Duc related businesses either tone down the sales pitch and just come here to talk bikes, OR talk to me about what's involved in getting their own place on the forum to sell stuff. I thought eurosports would do fine by posting up cool bikes and discussing them without the 'call me about parts' crap. Never would have cost a dime. Guess not. Lots of folks took it as heavy handed and looks like a decision was made after only one page of this thread. shame.
I don't think anyone has problems with people in the field posting. Hell, we love people in the field coming around. Want more. Maybe the difference is in perceived sharing versus selling. And even then it's a difficult issue because we all want new and cool stuff so if someone is making new and cool stuff for our bikes we want to know and we want to know how much and where etc.etc. What's fair to guys whose sponsorship pays for this place? The flip side is I also don't want the DMF to be one big commercial for sponsors. No easy answers.
Perhaps there's just a subtlety missing, because you know, with this many people saying it felt like spam, either a whole lot of people are just uptight, or it looked like spam and perhaps could be toned down. Like walking into a bar full of riders and introducing yourself, hanging out, and then saying I built this cool bike if anyone wants to see it versus walking into the door and saying here's my cool stuff, call if you want any of it, and walking out while the gang is still talking amongst themselves.
Either way if this is the target audience.......
blah blah blah blah
(omg..I can't stop talking...make it stop..)
It wouldn't be fair to our actual paying, valued sponsors to have this guy get free ad space. And the way he went about it was chicken shit.
Jon
I didn't see eurosports posts as spam. Look at it from their perspective. They don't spend their days in front of the computer worrying about their cyber image. They are in the shop building really cool shit. They know the bike was posted up here previously by some of our members and now that the bike is finished they drop in and post a quick hello and go back to the shop to do real work. They leave their contact info so that anyone that is really serious about having them build something can contact them. Then they get a bunch of whining and moaning about how they could of made a better introduction or how a few people, who will likely never buy anything from them, demand more info. I'd be a little turned off too.
boobies
In the future I think a single email from a mod telling them we like their stuff and would they consider being a sponsor would suffice. It is not like those posts on TOB where a robot would create threads trying to hock Nike sneakers.
But as usual Joel has good answer to the problem.
Quote from: silentbob on May 16, 2009, 08:08:25 AM
In the future I think a single email from a mod telling them we like their stuff and would they consider being a sponsor would suffice. It is not like those posts on TOB where a robot would create threads trying to hock Nike sneakers.
But as usual Joel has good answer to the problem.
I took a class in situational problem solving and gorilla warfare tactic
boobies is always the answer
Quote from: bobspapa on May 16, 2009, 08:12:35 AM
I took a class in situational problem solving and gorilla warfare tactic
boobies is always the answer
these boobies are still part of the greather whole right? cause thats kind of sick.
Quote from: He Man on May 16, 2009, 09:36:41 AM
these boobies are still part of the greather whole right? cause thats kind of sick.
I just started writing a book "Zen and the art of Boobies"
In the book, I discuss quality boobies while on a cross country motorcycle ride with ducpainter and Spidey
Quote from: bobspapa on May 16, 2009, 09:42:37 AM
I just started writing a book "Zen and the art of Boobies"
In the book, I discuss quality boobies while on a cross country motorcycle ride with ducpainter and Spidey
Why? Do they have quality boobies? Is there something the forum needs to know about?
you had me at who ha [laugh]
Quote from: bobspapa on May 16, 2009, 08:12:35 AM
I took a class in situational problem solving and gorilla warfare tactic
boobies is always the answer
I took a class..
too bad I have none...
kinda like the subjects of this thread.
I read the thread by the audidiger fanboy
My initial response was that the board was being pretty cold
and
some members were being outright dicks
Also, I was very surprised by who was talking shit
I felt it was uncharacteristic and figured there must be something I wasn't getting
The bike wasn't terrible, the paint was a tit on the gaudy side but it certainly didn't warrant that kind of response
So
I google mister Audifeltcher and discovered who he was
Upon learning he is a a celeb designer douche who clads guidos and didn't actually build the bike
He can go choke on one of his $350.00 hoodies
There were two different people posting at roughly the same time. One was showing off his bike and controversial paint scheme. The other just showed a 696 with a 996 motor but suggested to email him if we wanted to learn about it. In my opinion the 696 guy was being a puss. The paint scheme guy rubbed some people the wrong way but is starting to come around.
Quote from: bobspapa on May 16, 2009, 09:42:37 AM
I just started writing a book "Zen and the art of Boobies"
In the book, I discuss quality boobies while on a cross country motorcycle ride with ducpainter and Spidey
big mistake...
you know well that spidey hates boobies ???
and i second ducaholic on the paint scheme guy. he appears to have come around and is "talking sho" with ducstu over in that thread. much more interesting...
Quote from: herm on May 17, 2009, 04:35:23 PM
and i second ducaholic on the paint scheme guy. he appears to have come around and is "talking sho" with ducstu over in that thread. much more interesting...
They are Ford Taurus enthusiasts?
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on May 17, 2009, 04:57:03 PM
They are Ford Taurus enthusiasts?
http://www.jayssite.com/audio/pinklytaurus.html (http://www.jayssite.com/audio/pinklytaurus.html)
Ok guys, I have a couple of questions here...
Im a sorta high profile guy, built a few bikes, magazine and movie bikes, got a tv show, ect etc... all that crap but Im really just a mechanic.. anyways
We really arent "open to the public" but we do turn out about 20 bikes a year. Some are Ducatis.. So my questions are
Should I refrain from posting the bikes or builds of the bikes here?
Should I not post technical advise?
Im not looking to advertise or recruit customers, and if I did I would advertise, but I dont want to step on toes. We dont manufacture or sell parts for public consupmtion, but showing the bikes here tends to make people want info, or ask questions...
Just looking for some guidelines!
Will
I say post all the pics and tech advice you can.
RetroSBK - I think that the line is whether your posts provide some value to the community (hence why I don't post very much anymore - mine don't ;)). So, when it comes to bike builds, Ducati or otherwise (although, some might think only Ducati apply), post up your experience, what it took to build, which parts you made & why, the issues you ran into and how you resolved them. All of these things provide value IMO. When it comes to giving advice, it's greatly appreciated.
The problem I had with the 696/996 post was that there was no actual content in the thread except for a pic & "call me for a good time". Most of the people on this board (going out on a limb here) want to get some info, the post I mentioned included a pic (or two) of a highly droolworthy bike and that's great but the low res pics didn't really provide value and clearly left the community wanting more and not actually getting it.
Personally (IMO!) I think that a vendor build post should be like any other person's build post. People get on here & post what bits they put on, where they got them (sometimes how much), what the story was behind it, the issues they had. All this experience is interesting to others so post away.
Quote from: RetroSBK on May 17, 2009, 08:40:10 PM
Ok guys, I have a couple of questions here...
Im a sorta high profile guy, built a few bikes, magazine and movie bikes, got a tv show, ect etc... all that crap but Im really just a mechanic.. anyways
We really arent "open to the public" but we do turn out about 20 bikes a year. Some are Ducatis.. So my questions are
Should I refrain from posting the bikes or builds of the bikes here?
Should I not post technical advise?
Im not looking to advertise or recruit customers, and if I did I would advertise, but I dont want to step on toes. We dont manufacture or sell parts for public consupmtion, but showing the bikes here tends to make people want info, or ask questions...
Just looking for some guidelines!
Will
Post what you want. The overwhelming majority of the posts here have no value anyway. People can demand more info or ask you to structure each post as an apology for wasting their valuable time or question whether your build is worthy of being called a build. But, bottom line if they don't like the free info you give them, they can go read something else.
Quote from: RetroSBK on May 17, 2009, 08:40:10 PM
Ok guys, I have a couple of questions here...
Im a sorta high profile guy, built a few bikes, magazine and movie bikes, got a tv show, ect etc... all that crap but Im really just a mechanic.. anyways
We really arent "open to the public" but we do turn out about 20 bikes a year. Some are Ducatis.. So my questions are
Should I refrain from posting the bikes or builds of the bikes here?
Should I not post technical advise?
Im not looking to advertise or recruit customers, and if I did I would advertise, but I dont want to step on toes. We dont manufacture or sell parts for public consupmtion, but showing the bikes here tends to make people want info, or ask questions...
Just looking for some guidelines!
Will
I'd ignore any response that isn't from admin or a board owner (including mine). We may be a "community" but in the end it's their board and they need to determine the posting guidelines. IMO (again, to be ignored) they ought to require any one of themselves that would have a conflict to abstain from the discussion and decision regarding said guidelines.
IMO: Regarding build VS bolt on. If you start with a working bike and end with a very similar working bike it's not a build. It's modifications. If you start with nothing it's a build. Even if you source the frame, motor, etc, from elsewhere. If you start with a bike and change it so drastically that it doesn't look like a modified "fill in the blank", that's a build. Motocreations builds bikes. Flight has built some, modified the majority. These new guys? Modified. Installing a febur does not make you a bike builder. Even having a special exhaust flange made doesn't qualify you....unless you make the damn thing. I live within two miles of dozens of companies that produce parts for aerospace, rockets, and missiles. I could order a part and bolt it on. Doesn't make me a builder.
This is not the first time this has happened on this board.
I paint bikes for a living, not just Ducati`s ( otherwise I would starve to death ), I do post pictures of bikes I paint on this board and sometimes do get stupid comments.
I do not take these comments personally as most custom paint jobs are what the client want and not always to my taste, ( painting HD`s are very difficult as I hate them )
Why post anything if you think that you are not going to be able to handle the fallout.
Retro SBK I have a magazine with the bike in your avatar taking pride of place in my bar [thumbsup]
boobies
dats my advice
Quote from: RetroSBK on May 17, 2009, 08:40:10 PM
Ok guys, I have a couple of questions here...
Im a sorta high profile guy, built a few bikes, magazine and movie bikes, got a tv show, ect etc... all that crap but Im really just a mechanic.. anyways
We really arent "open to the public" but we do turn out about 20 bikes a year. Some are Ducatis.. So my questions are
Should I refrain from posting the bikes or builds of the bikes here?
Should I not post technical advise?
Im not looking to advertise or recruit customers, and if I did I would advertise, but I dont want to step on toes. We dont manufacture or sell parts for public consupmtion, but showing the bikes here tends to make people want info, or ask questions...
Just looking for some guidelines!
Will
Will,
What I ask...and think it's the feelings of all the motley crew that founded this place...the flounders...
is that you become part of the community.
Share your knowledge and experience...
post pictures of your work, but refrain from posting the url to your site anywhere but your profile, and that goes for all members regardless of the type of site they run.
If things change and you decide to sell your wares to our membership...
Share the wealth by supporting the board financially.
If you took the time to read about this place you'll see it's not about any of us (the flounders) making money off the site.
I hope that answers your questions.
dp
Quote from: bobspapa on May 18, 2009, 07:12:20 AM
boobies
dats my advice
Boobies it is.................
................... since the OP finally left it seems [bang]
Will,
The fact that you even asked what's cool to do or not is appreciated. Happy to have polite dialogue any time about forum stuff. Welcome aboard. (this deserves its own thread).
Quote from: Big Troubled Bear on May 18, 2009, 02:02:07 AM
Retro SBK I have a magazine with the bike in your avatar taking pride of place in my bar [thumbsup]
Will built that bike. It looks great and is crazy fast. Even had the pleasure of watching him blow the clutch out of the thing.
After reading through some of these posts, some of you definitely act like a$$holes... I cant believe that some of you have the audacity to call others douchebags, when it's a perfect definition of your own behaviour... Sorry to tell you but just like the other badges some riders have on their tank doesn't make them worse, your badge doesn't make you any better... Grow up fellas and get over yourselves...
Quote from: Ducaholic on May 16, 2009, 08:00:35 AM
It wouldn't be fair to our actual paying, valued sponsors to have this guy get free ad space. And the way he went about it was chicken shit.
Jon
My question would be ..." Intent ."
What was the intent of the poster ?
I think a lot of things boil down to ...intent.
If it was the Poster's Intent to be a spammer that is one thing.
If the Poster wasn't intentionally trying to generate capital but rather as a side note mentioned if you liked what you saw you too could have a bike like posted , just email .
Do you see the difference ? Dolph
Quote from: silentbob on May 16, 2009, 08:01:47 AM
I didn't see eurosports posts as spam. Look at it from their perspective. They don't spend their days in front of the computer worrying about their cyber image. They are in the shop building really cool shit. They know the bike was posted up here previously by some of our members and now that the bike is finished they drop in and post a quick hello and go back to the shop to do real work. They leave their contact info so that anyone that is really serious about having them build something can contact them. Then they get a bunch of whining and moaning about how they could of made a better introduction or how a few people, who will likely never buy anything from them, demand more info. I'd be a little turned off too.
Right on Brother ! Dolph :)
Quote from: DoubleEagle on May 18, 2009, 01:42:06 PM
My question would be ..." Intent ."
What was the intent of the poster ?
I think a lot of things boil down to ...intent.
If it was the Poster's Intent to be a spammer that is one thing.
If the Poster wasn't intentionally trying to generate capital but rather as a side note mentioned if you liked what you saw you too could have a bike like posted , just email .
Do you see the difference ? Dolph
Do you see the difference between "contributing" to a forum and throwing up a couple of pics and then telling people to call or email if they actually want details?
Its about contributing to our knowledge base and inspiring our riders. Can't really do that with a couple of pictures and no real information.
Quote from: PragB on May 18, 2009, 01:09:10 PM
After reading through some of these posts, some of you definitely act like a$$holes... I cant believe that some of you have the audacity to call others douchebags, when it's a perfect definition of your own behaviour... Sorry to tell you but just like the other badges some riders have on their tank doesn't make them worse, your badge doesn't make you any better... Grow up fellas and get over yourselves...
Typical low-rent, plebian Triumph-riding shlock. After reading that post, I need a shower just to get the stench of commoner off of me. [laugh]
Quote from: Spidey on May 18, 2009, 01:48:39 PM
Typical low-rent, plebian Triumph-riding shlock. After reading that post, I need a shower just to get the stench of commoner off of me. [laugh]
Warren, you are still acting like you are a MOD from TOB.
I thought you had gotten over that. Dolph :)
Quote from: JBubble on May 18, 2009, 01:46:54 PM
Do you see the difference between "contributing" to a forum and throwing up a couple of pics and then telling people to call or email if they actually want details?
Its about contributing to our knowledge base and inspiring our riders. Can't really do that with a couple of pictures and no real information.
I understand the concept of the Forum and the Ducati Community.
It would seem that the Poster did not or did and diregarded the rules if he was trying to be lazy and raise capital by only respondinding to interested individuals.
I don't approve of people breaking Forum rules. Dolph
Quote from: Spidey on May 18, 2009, 01:48:39 PM
Typical low-rent, plebian Triumph-riding shlock. After reading that post, I need a shower just to get the stench of commoner off of me. [laugh]
plebian
1533 (n.), 1566 (adj.), from L. plebius "of the common people," from plebes "the common people" (as opposed to patricians, etc.), perhaps from PIE base *ple- "to be full" (see plenary). Slang shortening pleb is attested from 1865 (see plebe).
Had to look that one up... My education must have been lacking.
I'm more of a philistine than a plebian.
this threads done.
Quote from: herm on May 18, 2009, 04:00:09 PM
this threads done.
boobies
now it's done
[beer]
Quote from: bobspapa on May 18, 2009, 03:47:58 PM
no..... I've seen the sun 8)
Could have fooled me, pasty. You make Mother look tan.
Quote from: silentbob on May 18, 2009, 04:32:11 PM
Could have fooled me, pasty. You make Mother look tan.
[laugh]
I still feel that " INTENT " is the operable word here.
It's like the difference between murder and manslaughter.
With murder in the 1st degree , one 's INTENT was to commit murder.
Manslaughter , one had no INTENT to murder anyone but in the course of their actions someone died as a result.
What was this poster's INTENT ?
I rest my case. Dolph
glad we could all talk about this like adults. ;D
Thank you for the input, everyone. It will be taken into consideration.