couple new high visability members and open discussion

[Statler]

ok, folks,

A couple new people joined posting pics of their bikes.   I think they got both a warm and cold reception depending on how people saw the posts.

I viewed both as a little heavy handed in terms of looking at the DMF as potential customers, some viewed the posts as exciting and enthusiastic, and some as blatant advertising.

I don't think any of the flounders saw them the same way by the way and we may all chime in here.

So I wanted to throw some thoughts out there to discuss a little.


Nobody wants to drive any enthusiasts away.    I'd rather have people post cool builds and discuss stuff than pay as a sponsor...next best choice is people who want to find customers here but who are enthusiasts who don't have tons of time to chat here but who help the forum out in exchange for the customer base.   Then comes people who really just run the ads for the business and don't contribute to here wise..  and least favorite are folks who don't participate, do want to run ads, and don't want to help out with costs.


We've said it's not a business and we're sticking to that.   We do have to balance what's fair to sponsors who do pay sponsorship.

I think everyone wants to see bikes from DesmoRR and eurosports.   Let's welcome them to discuss the bikes.  We will find a cool balance or we won't.  Not the end of the world.

Some people in the filed of bikes help the place out with knowledge.  Some people help the place out with money.  Some a little of both.

[Drunken Monkey]

Well, I think as long as someone isn't blatantly hawking their services, it's fine to post up pics of a tasty mod / Bike / whatever.

[EvilSteve]

I was really interested to see the pics that euro sport posted of their bike BUT there's no much point to them if we can't buy any of the parts or have enough info to perform any of the mods. I wouldn't have any problem with their post if it had included info about the mods/time/cost so that it could give the community some specific information that they could use.

Generally speaking, I'd prefer that vendors keep their posts to their own forum if there isn't a tangible benefit to the community (for free) from their posts, if not get rid of it. Obviously there's a lot of gray here and I feel like the eurosport post was very close if not over the line of what's acceptable. In that case, round down (or up) and get rid of the post or instruct the poster to include more information, something like what would go into bike of the month (bike of the quarter now? ). That would make it a self contained post that would allow members to get good info and enjoy it.

[OverCaffeinated]

I'm sure there are lots of bikes on this site that have parts that cannot just be ordered. It's a one of a kind bike. Now if he had given a link with prices for everything that's on the bike, that would definitely be over the line.

Because this is a site for motorcycle enthusiasts, sometimes all it takes is a picture to inspire or appreciate the machines. Not a parts list.

I personally would also like more info on the bike too. But I think it's more important to welcome other enthusiasts and everyone will find their place. Be it a vendor, builder, service shop or just rider.

[Grampa]

boobies

[EvilSteve]

I'm sure there are lots of bikes on this site that have parts that cannot just be ordered. It's a one of a kind bike. Now if he had given a link with prices for everything that's on the bike, that would definitely be over the line.

Because this is a site for motorcycle enthusiasts, sometimes all it takes is a picture to inspire or appreciate the machines. Not a parts list.

I personally would also like more info on the bike too. But I think it's more important to welcome other enthusiasts and everyone will find their place. Be it a vendor, builder, service shop or just rider.

The definition of enthusiast is at the heart of this issue IMO.

I was thinking that if you drew up a serious build list you'd at least include information about the parts you got. For example, the exhaust, was it custom made (obviously) where? How long did it take? If eurosport made it, are they thinking of making them for sale? If none of the parts or mods are possible without buying them from eurosport then the bike doesn't belong in the regular site IMO, it should be in the vendor's site. Like when you watch monster garage & they give you build costs & all that.

I think we agree generally that more info would make the post (more) useful I just think that posting pics of the bike without any info & a suggestion to call them doesn't actually benefit the community at all.

What do you think about the idea of having the bike as BOM?

[Spidey]

Free discussion?  Cool.  Cuz I've had a pointless rant building in me, but held off initially b/c I didn't want to chase away folks coming to the DMF with cool work on the newest monsters. 

Here's what's buggin' me-- I'm getting pretty f'n sick of these dealer "builds."  I would really like someone to actually "build" a bike.  It's exciting that eurosports did exactly that -- build a bike.  But then they came here and said "here are pics.  Call us or come to our website for more information."  Well, screw you then.  Don't just talk dirty, lick the tip once, and then try to charge $50 for the full treatment.  That's a professional--an enthusiastic pro, but a pro nonetheless.

As for revercorsa, it sounds like they do some really, really cool work (carbon & TI frames.  my, my . . . ).  But based on what they came here with, they must think we're either (a) a buncha OCC monkeys who drool in direct proportion to how garish a paint job they put on their bike (which may not be wrong, unfortunately) or (b) some side-hat-wearing douchebags (which also may not be wrong) who get a stiffy any time you unthinkingly mix one brand with another.  Look, it's a Fendi master cylinder!!!  Woot! 

Whew.  Glad I got that out of my system.  I didn't really mean most it, but it seemed like a good morning for rant.     In truth, I thought both the bikes were interesting.  I wish the original posters had told us more about the bikes, what they were going for with their builds and what cool nuggets we couldn't see from the pics (for example, there's a lot of cool stuff on that douchebag bike that you might otherwise miss).  I wish they'd show in their posting a little more of the enthusiasm I'm sure they have for their work.  That said, I went to the bank to take out $50.   

[metallimonster]

Evil,  I agree with most of your thoughts.  I don't mind seeing or reading about their bikes but I would like to know a little more of what went into them and how/where they got the parts.


However, I think the BOM should be saved for members bikes.  Usually there is a good background story and the mods/things done to the bike are usually things that most of us could do/buy not a lot of handmade parts that there is no way I (or most of us) could produce.  My favorite part of the BOM is seeing what real riders have done to their Monster and adding/taking away from my list of things to do.  

[stopintime]

Contribute or don't come to the party

[Porsche Monkey]

The thing that really pissed me off was showing a bike with lots of one off mods but no explanation of those mods, but instead says email or call me. make the beast with two backs that. I can cruise over to ducati.ms if I want to get slammed with advertising or worse yet, I could go back to the evil old site. There are quite a few people on here that participate in the forum that are also in the motorcycle industry.  Those people usually have something to offer the community instead of just advertisement.
Jon

[Mash]

The pros posting up the new builds are showing their potential market what they have done.  We are their potential market, so why not show us?  On some of the other boards I frequent, that may be all they need to do to generate interest, and get folks to their website or in their door.  Here, though, I think we're a little different bunch.  I think a large percentage of members here do their own wrenching, and mod their own bikes.  When the new posts showed up, I was (and still am) very interested, but I want to see more details.  I want to see the specs and closeups like other bike build threads.

It's not such a bad thing to see these types of posts, even if only to promote a new rearset or other custom part.  Heck, there's a thread now for Rizoma parts coming to market and a I see a lot of positive interest there.

What it all boils down to is this, I love my Duc, and I relish every build story I can find on this board. It doesn't matter if it's HeMan burning down his garage with his 'new' powdercoating oven, or a multi-thousand dollar pro-built water-cooled 696 monstrosity.  I hope to see more every day.

[Popeye the Sailor]

The pros posting up the new builds are showing their potential market what they have done.  We are their potential market, so why not show us?  On some of the other boards I frequent, that may be all they need to do to generate interest, and get folks to their website or in their door.  Here, though, I think we're a little different bunch.  I think a large percentage of members here do their own wrenching, and mod their own bikes.  When the new posts showed up, I was (and still am) very interested, but I want to see more details.  I want to see the specs and closeups like other bike build threads.

It's not such a bad thing to see these types of posts, even if only to promote a new rearset or other custom part.  Heck, there's a thread now for Rizoma parts coming to market and a I see a lot of positive interest there.

What it all boils down to is this, I love my Duc, and I relish every build story I can find on this board. It doesn't matter if it's HeMan burning down his garage with his 'new' powdercoating oven, or a multi-thousand dollar pro-built water-cooled 696 monstrosity.  I hope to see more every day.

Thats fine and all, but some of this seems to be posting up specifically to generate interest, and thus, revenue. That is advertising-why should they get to do it for free when there's a whole long list of sponsors on the left who pay good money for it? There's a reason I get my parts from CA-cycleworks-they don't annoy me, and they contribute to a forum I enjoy.

[RBX QB]

I can see both sides. Like many of you, I saw the pics, but wanted WAY more info and pics than they actually posted. I certainly have no intention of "calling or emailing" anyone to find out more. Now, if they had linked to a page that gave more info about what and how they achieved that, I'd be more interested. Even if that site was, in fact, a site where they also want to sell their services or products.

But to show a pic with little to no clarification, and that is all... seems a little like prospecting for business, and I can see the concern members have about that activity.

I guess they MAY want to protect their intellectual property in case they decide to produce these for market. I think that can be safeguarded by not showing detailed step by step with parts lists. But, they could still show the product clearly without giving away all of their "secrets". We, as self-modders, may try to create something similar on our own, but they may able to manufacture and produce these at a volume that makes it easier to just purchase one of theirs.

Or, maybe they just posted pics and had no sub-intention of gaining business.

The BOMs are similar... we can see what they did, read a list of the mods... but that doesn't mean that there's enough info there to copy the bike. But certainly enough for inspiration.

So, I enjoyed seeing the pics, wish I could have learned more about them, easily, and may someday use those mod ideas on my own ride. No different than what I do when the rest of you post mod pics. 

[Porsche Monkey]

Thats fine and all, but some of this seems to be posting up specifically to generate interest, and thus, revenue. That is advertising-why should they get to do it for free when there's a whole long list of sponsors on the left who pay good money for it? There's a reason I get my parts from CA-cycleworks-they don't annoy me, and they contribute to a forum I enjoy.

^^^
I think this is what I meant to say. There are some sponsors here that have contributed a great deal to this forum and community.  I would rather support them as they support us. Thanks for the chance to openly discuss this Statler.

[Alexandre]

boobies

x2 for me pls