Ducati Monster Forum

Well I finally got the Monster on the TRACK!   Went to Jennings with Florida Sportbikers May 16th n 17th, but only to ride on Sunday 17th.   We got a good half+ day in before rains shut all down.   Even got to do couple laps in REVERSE, albeit in downpour and that was brilliant also. 

I have a LOT of work to do to improve, but getting off that Monster seat is no easy task and considering clip-ons for the track as well.  Otherwise, it was all I expected and more and a complete RUSH to be comfortable enuff to push limits a bit on a track with the Beastie Boy. 

Hubby n I also bought SV650 as dedicated track bike and I was supposed to get a few laps or a session at least on it also, but the rains did not allow this.  He absolutely LUVS that SV, especially after taking his Speed Triple to Jennings.  That track is just not meant for liter bikes, at least not for Novice/Intermediate IMHO. 

Posting few pix, please be kind, I know I what I have to work on now and actually made great improvements already.  Soo ready to hit Jennings again and signing up for July 4th weekend for sure now.  Oh, had only ONE pucker moment in T8 when I scraped hardparts!!!!!   Yup, thought was sidestand, but now pretty sure was Oberon peg and know it was also my toe for a moment also  [bang]  Kinda scared me so I kept screwing up T8 every time after AND still bit tense on street at times  [roll] 

Is it July yet??!!!!

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/heathergln/TRACK%20DAYZ/FSB%20STD%20may%2009/menmonsterbysnow.jpg)

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/heathergln/TRACK%20DAYZ/FSB%20STD%20may%2009/staffmeonmonster.jpg)

And here are all us WOMINZ RIDERS!!
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/heathergln/TRACK%20DAYZ/FSB%20STD%20may%2009/may1709181.jpg)

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/heathergln/TRACK%20DAYZ/FSB%20STD%20may%2009/may1709195.jpg)

And the SV Track Bike

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/heathergln/TRACK%20DAYZ/FSB%20STD%20may%2009/may1709112.jpg)

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/heathergln/TRACK%20DAYZ/FSB%20STD%20may%2009/may1709114.jpg)

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/heathergln/TRACK%20DAYZ/FSB%20STD%20may%2009/may1709190.jpg)

Congrats!  I bet it was a blast...  As long as you stayed upright and didn't make anyone else go down, you rode perfectly.  ;) 

maybe a little TOO "upright"   [laugh]

actually did manage to get my arse off seat MUCH better at end, just no picture-proof of it  [bang] 

I did have a total blast and cannot wait to go again and with Monster again of course.   Just bit too cautious when on it, afraid to hurt it  [roll]

TKS tho  [beer]

"Limited ground clearance."  Whenever someone tells you that you could have been more leaned over just tell them that.   [laugh]  And the photographers are never snapping shots of the good stuff.  And laptimers are 2-3 seconds slow.  (I've got a million of 'em....)  Just kiddin'.  Seriously, your first day out on expensive Italian machinery ain't no time to be show-boatin'.  You done good.   [thumbsup]

 [bow_down] tks for the boost(s)   I am pretty happy with the day. Expected to be MUCH slower, more timid but felt so right out there, so quickly!   Yeah, def not pushing Beastie Boy on the track ever, thats what the ole SV is for of course, but never over my head-too old for that anyways  [laugh]

Truly just a great experience to be on a safER, enclosed "road" with no cages, dogs, deer, etc and everyone going same direction.  Was awesome to do track in REVERSE too, altho was not as "special" for me being new out there anyways, but still nice opportunity to scrub bit more of right side of tires  ;D

Little disappointed in everyone here-thought the thread about a Monster on a track AND female woulda brought few more comments  [roll]  oh well  [cheeky]

^^^ [laugh]
Got my attention  ;D

Don't be so hard on yourself. As Belle said, you made it home safe and sound with bike intact. That's a successful track day!  [thumbsup]
Just take it easy and keep learning.

I can leghump you a little bit if it makes you feel better.   [cheeky] 

[laugh]

 ;D   [laugh]

Tks Swamp also  [thumbsup] 

Nice pics [thumbsup]

One thing that helped me was intentionally slowing down. I had more fun when I was able to negotiate a turn well as compared to when I pushed and massacred it. I ended up going faster too.

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast ;)

It takes time to really get it. And by the time you really get it, you will be presented with a whole new set of barriers to work past [laugh]

It never ends. And so the addiction takes root.

;D

some vid.  I come in at :40, red Dainese jacket of course


NC at FSB track day Session 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHuf791gz4o#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)

not sure how to insert vids here.

Lines look pretty good...

Now add more speed ;D

;)

TKS  [thumbsup]

Def will add speed, but when I can get off damn bike more cuz I scraped a friggin PEG n it spooked me  [bang]  [laugh]

don't worry about it...think of it as a sign of measurement to note for now...

not sure what level of instruction you are getting, but as you get the lines down, and get into adding speed, you'll find that you'll end up readjusting everything (braking point, body position set-up timing, and turn in point) as you start to change your body position due to you being a very moveable ballast that changes the entire bike feel once you start to move around on it...so don't stress the importance of getting your ass off the seat or scraping a hard part or a knee puck till you are comfy...it will come...

is it important to learn your body positioning? yes!...it will help settle a bit of ground work into your mode of thinking and setting up when putting things together...but it can only come when you are comfy with the idea and feel of moving around on the bike while it is in motion...lots of people can do it with the bike on stands in class or in the pits all stationary, but get weirded out and unnerved when they try and do it on the bike in motion due to how the bike reacts while they are doing it on the track.....

NekkedChic, congrats on taking out the 696 in the track! I recently took mine! It's soooo awesome to see another woman rider take her pearl white 696 to the track! Yay for us -- woot woot!!

I like your pics and the vid alot. You look really solid - a bonafide Ducatista!!!  ;D ;D

I discovered the clearance issue with the 696 by dragging my shifter and my toes several times and I found the experience very unnnerving  :o  Getting off the seat a little helped a lot. And really pointing my feet (size 8.5!) and pulling my heels all the way up against the reaset helped to keep from draggin' my toes. Draggin stuff unintentionally is super sketchy. Like Zoom said, BP is super important. Do what's comforatble and make changes incrementally. I know for any Ducati rider we want our bikes to stay pretty. No crashes = happy duc  ;D

If I might chime in...

getting off any Monster is crucial to going fast on it.

I haven't ridden any of the 'new' bikes, but the breed lacks ground clearance, and if you aren't comfy scraping stuff...

hang it out. ;D

Nymph, Zoom n Painter (everyone actually included)  THANK YOU for your words of encouragement and constructive criticism-I welcome ALL!! 

I had improved as far as comfort and moving around on the bike before this track day, and even tho I DID move my arse a BIT over, still scraped toe n peg.  Then the Control Rider worked with me, he was GREAT, but think he and I both pushed too much/too fast.  He told me to turn "inside" toe out, pull heel in and up-but this does not work so well on Monster and rearset frame AND with my SMALL feet  [laugh]  I lost a LOT of speed trying to contort for "proper body position" and felt bit unsteady too often- but working on it on STREET at normal speeds, yes even on big sweeper corners I am "hanging off" now  [laugh]

But YUP Painter, this track day did prove to me it IS "CRUCIAL" to get off the Monster.  Just clarify something for me: IS it as "dangerous" to scrape hardparts as my brain has built it up to be???!!! 

Hope my next track pix n vids show the great improvement I think I am making!  and thank you ALL for the support n encouragement!  Feeling lot less squidly now  [bow_down]

Besides looking at Ducati girls in leather, I enjoyed the video. You DO move your "bottom", but I think you might also benefit from lowering the upper body and pointing it through the turn, head first. I've seen fellow Monster riders scraping pegs/boots because they were hanging their "bottoms" off, but not leaning their upper bodies in the same direction.

Oh my oh my - Ducati girls in leather [clap] I'm going to view the video again [cheeky]

stopintime is correct in the regard as to getting your torso out over the front end...this goes back to body position...with your body in proper position, you will find it easier to get your feet into a proper placement...think of your body position as getting out and over and forward to kiss your mirror....odds are, if you can kiss your mirror, then you are just about there...here is an example for you...

(http://www.mad-ducati.com/Gallery/bsandusky/G592/low_19-4-06.jpg)

as to your question of dragging and touching down hard parts....it is kinda tough to answer that...I had occasion with my previous exhaust set-up in a deep keeled over turn, to touch my muffler...this was luckily at the apex when I didn't need to push over any further...it was also a gentle touch down....I think the trouble becomes when you aren't finished turning in and it happens because depending on what you touch down (in your case, your footpeg for example) as you push harder on it, you are liable to unload the rear and spin it up and lose it alltogether...this is more of a problem with fixed pegs as apposed to your stock folding ones as the force of touch-down to a folding one will allow a little give to prevent this in your early stages...dragging toe sliders/boots is more of a signal for you to get the ball of your foot up on the peg instead of the arch, which is something most people do until they get comfy with it (unless you are an old Beemer airhead rider stickin your toe out as a feeler to keep from touching your heads down )...on some Japanese bikes, they have a feeler stud screwed into a footpeg for this puropose as well...in the end...it is a bad thing to drag hard parts of your bike around on the track...but it isn't a thing that is going to kill you intially or anything, especially at this stage of the game...but it is easily preventable with body position corrections.

someone here ought to say it: yes, eventually, body position is important.  but it's probably NOT the first thing you want to start trying to perfect on track day #2.

turning in quickly, learning to relax (oh so key!), finding reference points and entry-apex-exits so that you're not make mid-corner corrections, and making sure your visual skills are up to par are going to be much more important first. 

it doesn't matter how fast you're going.  get the fundamentals down and then you'll automatically start going faster without even trying.  never feel like you need to keep up with anyone; that's a recipe for disaster.  they only person out there you should worry about is you.


for body position basics

 - before you start trying to hang off all crazy, practice turning your hips slightly and pointing them at the apex as you enter a corner. 

 - when you do start to move around on the bike, remember that if you're turning in quickly enough and have the right line/speed, you probably only ever need to get half a cheek off the seat.  it's not necessary to hang off into next week.  (although maybe a bit more with a bike like the monster, with no ground clearance)

 - if you ever find yourself getting into a corner too hot, lowering your chest just slightly toward the tank will increase your turn angle and help you make the corner.

 - remember to keep your hips, spine, and head all on the same line geometrically.  you don't want to push your hips out into a turn and then be pulling back in the other direction with your head ("crossed up")


but, again, IMO, you should first focus on getting the bike turned once and quickly and then your visual skills before you concentrate on the above.  and you can do that going any speed.

oh - and to the extent that the 696 has an adjustable suspension (i have no clue) pay someone at the track the $25-$40 it'll cost to have them set up your suspension.  you don't need to get all set-up crazy at this point, but having a bike that doesn't nosedive into the corners or that tries to push you wide everywhere you go is sooooo worth the $.  have a suspension dude do it.  it's a bit of a science.

GM2 speaks da troof.  A lot of new track riders spend a lot of time trying to look good for the camera (that's just a  [laugh] way of saying that they're too focused on b.p.)  If you have good lines you don't need so much lean angle and therefore negate the need to hang off like a monkey.  Moving around the bike takes a lot of energy and when you're using up 3/4 of your brain just on not tipping over, it's a recipe for problems as the day wears on and fatigue starts to take over.  Sometimes I'll make an effort to slow down and redefine my lines at a trackday--after lunch is usually a good time for me.  Suddenly I'll notice that I'm actually going faster and doing less work.  I'm all about lazy.  [cheeky] I spend a lot of time listening to my breathing, inhaling and exhaling as I enter and exit a turn, hitting my marks, figuring out where I need to hang off versus where I can just toss a knee out.  If I start making mistakes or my mouth is getting dry I know that I'm losin' it.  I'll come in a few minutes early, because there's no need in practicing bad habits.  Ride only when you feel like your energy and focus is there.  You'll have more fun and stay upright. 

I think this is turning into an excellent thread for EVERYONE to benefit honestly.  Thanks for the personal attention as well! 

Been "playin" bit more on the street where I am familiar with the lines of the corners etc etc etc....

DEF understand need to lower upper body and what a DIFFERENCE that made-but it did not feel right or natural until I actually figured out to slide my ass BACK on the seat as well duh LOL  And with Rizoma's, when I lowered upper body, felt like I had APE HANGERS for bars  [laugh]  so took some time to feel right

As far as my toe hitting-PROMISE I was nearly tippy toed and improved foot/peg position long ago thankfully.  It seems just the front of my boot hit at the track when I got so leaned over and the PEG followed  [bang]  but will say I am managing to pull heel up on rearset better without feeling so contorted  [laugh]

Hubby did figure out how to adjust rear spring/shock and BIG difference.  Otherwise, in stock form, the Monster suspension is STIFF AS HELL-now actually have some sag and ride is MUCH improved.   Have local friends that own suspension shop, TTR in Longwood FL-they "inspected" hubby's work on Monster AND his spring/fork n oil swap on the SV650 and actually complimented him  [bow_down]   I may still let TTR do some figuring on Monster since I am finally beginning to ride it to levels where it DOES make a difference  [clap]  As far as SV, I prolly need to look for my OWN dedicated track bike because adjusting suspention on it for both of us is impossible of course.

Please keep up the suggestions n comments, GREATLY appreciated  [beer]

Holy sh* that's a lot of lean for a DSS Monster with low pipes. I didn't know they could lean that far over. Is that with standard pegs or rearsets?

   [thumbsup] Tracks are too fun.

He's got the standard footpeg brackets on, can't see the pegs.

Seems the muffler is pretty close to touching, too.

Having both a Monster (S2R1000) and an SV650 I can offer a little insight.  My first track day on the Monster (first time on a track) I quickly learned that my big feet were the first things touching down.  I then took a class and learned better body position.  That was the first time I touched a knee.  Here's a pic from that day:
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p294/Monkeyrobb/Motorcycle/Leftkneedown.jpg)

As I learned to lean the bike more I noticed that the kickstand would touch and I was constantly wearing out the toe sliders on my boots.  I then bought an SV just for the track and with the kickstand removed, you can lean that bike over forever.  It's a much more track friendly bike, and only 1/6th of the cost of my monster!

Please bring that crowd of hotties to Miller for a track day!

NICE!  This and the pic above are encouraging as HELL!! July 4/5 is next track day and I plan on splitting it up between Monster and SV! Have feeling I will like SV too much on the track! But sharing again so will be mostly on Monster. Need new front tire-replaced rear with Dunlap, LOVE IT, any suggestions for front now? TKS

I have to agree with 1 statement made in another thread in regards to the SV...


a track bike or a race bike in that regard...and the ones that are really well set up, have had good amounts of money poured into them...my track Monster initially cost me with travel expense and logistics to that trip about $3600...but I fell into a window of opportunity that was not to be duplicated...and I have since spent money on this bike over the last 3 years I have owned it in correcting things from the P/O and getting things set up for me and so forth and so on...and that is the saga of any track bike for the most part...

If I may strongly recommend either reversing the stock bars or adding clip ons. A huge part of getting a Monster to handle on a track is to get weight over the bars and tank which is difficult with stock bars. You'll find it much easier and more willing to tip in.

Anyhoo, here's a couple of me and my S4R at Barber.

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/tufty00/barber31.jpg)

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/tufty00/barber4-1.jpg)

INSPIRATION! Tks!

Oh yes...been having the discussion about swapping bars out but honestly, my Monster is a temp track bike and really rather push limits on the SV or another track bike, if it be an oler Monster. Just tooling around on this one to be a better rider on street in general, but if I were to plan on tracking it regularlu, AGREE completely about bar swap.

One of the things that the SV lacks in its stock form is tunable suspension.  I had my forks rebuilt for my weight and it made a huuuge difference.  Also, new brake pads and stainless steel lines are a necessity.

Here's my track whore:
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p294/Monkeyrobb/Motorcycle/svside.jpg)

Nice!

and YUP, on SV suspension. So we got Race Tec springs up front and upped the fork oil BIG DIFFERENCE!  Another option was a GSXR fork? 

Just 2 weeks left now before SECOND track event and hoping to get more than 1/2 day in this time. Signed up for 2 days and plan on riding every session possible, on SV and Monster, mostly Monster tho.

that's a really common SV mod

or to put a whole Gixxer front end so as to get the better brakes and all too.

This weekend is second track event, doing whole weekend AND riding Monster n SV!   

Hope rains hold off tho. 

I am sure it goes without saying, but take it easy and don't ride worn out. Have a blast and learn a ton!

update please?   ;D

Some of us 696 owners are dying for another trackday this year!

OK WHEW!!!!!!!!  I gots lots n lots of serious questions for my fellow Monster Racers here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   

Had a BLAST this past weekend and improved by MILES!!!  However, I STILLLLL kept scraping sidestand in Turn 8 damn it so held my speeds WAYYYYY back and kept working harder and harder on getting WAYYYY off bike. 

I DID IT!   I WAS well off bike, and then scraped friggin stand ANYWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   



Seriously guys, this is driving me insane!  Besides removing sidestand (which I am most definitely doing for next track day now) my other concerns/questions and things bugging HELL outta me are as follows:

PLEASE remind/explain to me how getting off the inside of the bike helps?  Am I correct in understanding it turns my body into some kind of centrifical weight pulling bike around/into corner????   In which case, is my problem actually the fact that I weigh TOO LITTLE??????? to make a difference???  I am serious here, please help me with this.   I weigh, embarassed to admit almost, just 105 lb with leathers/boots and am not even 5'3" with SHORT legs!   

Please look at my pix/vids also? Unfortunately, however, the photographers did NOT get my last 4 sessions when I actually did FAR better, but think there are 1-2 on Monster showing my last session.

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/heathergln/TRACK%20DAYZ/FSB%20STD%20July%2009/Staff%20Pix/IMG_5001-1.jpg)

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/heathergln/TRACK%20DAYZ/FSB%20STD%20July%2009/Staff%20Pix/IMG_2891avie.jpg)

Look closely at me on SV. First glance, appears I am not off seat much, LOOK CLOSER-I am only a midget so you have to look close to see my ass IS at least halfway off LOL  This is NOT my best tho, as I said. I was still warming up to the SV. (http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/heathergln/TRACK%20DAYZ/FSB%20STD%20July%2009/Staff%20Pix/mekneeoutt11monster.jpg)

This one shows my knee out WOOT!

and here is YouTube link of me, but I don;t come in until around 5:00 I think? My knee was DAMN CLOSE a lot of the time also!!   A guy on a Green Ninja passes Tim around 4:22 then runs straight off at T1  :o   There were a LOT of run-offs both days and couple crashes.  I will post a thread on one where bike ended up-side-down!!  Poor guy!   

Gettin nekkid on Speed Triple (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdYXOR1RAs8#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)

this is off Tim's Speed Triple of me on Monster.

I also even scraped something on SV in T8. I swear I heard/felt it. Tim argues I did not.  Obvious now I did on Monster-foot step on sidestand is scraped up badly oooops.   Scared HELL outta me last time tho cuz it made Monster skip to side!!   

I had help from the Control Riders, but I am not so sure any of them were sure themselves about the MONSTER and how to track it.  We even tried more Motarding it which helped IMHO.   

THANK YOU!!  Now, will some of you bring YOUR damn Monsters out with me in September??!!   

To me, it's quite clear that you still don't position your upper body correctly.
Your knee and ass is inside, but your upper body resists and turns the other way, at least on the Monster. Such a position will reduce your control and make the bike lean more (scraping) WITHOUT going fast(er). It's exactly what squids do to scrape a knee in order to show off. It has little to do with going fast (and safe). I'm not saying you're a squid, just trying to visualize :)

I was told, I read it in Total Control and then I practiced until it worked: look through the turn, point your head in that direction and let the upper body follow. It has been called "kissing the mirror". It's like you want to make your head come first through the turn. A little scary, but it's very effective. Hanging the ass off might help leaning/pointing the upper body even more, but it's not required to practice the above mentioned technique.

I hope you keep on practicing - when you manage to do it right you will be a whole lot more confident and much lower lap times will follow. [moto]


edit: look at JBubble, first page, she's one of VERY few doing it right - head first, twisting her upper body in the turning direction. Some others are pointing the head right, but still resisting with their (mine too) upper body turned away from the turn.      http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=24848.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=24848.0)

Stop, Thanks.  No worries about even if you ARE calling me a squid-Cuz that's what I am on the track fer sure :lol:   
Odd how I have full confidence on street and at speed FAR and above on our "private tracks" what I can seem to get out of the real track also. 
As far as kissing the mirror, 2 things.  Pretty sure the few pix they got where when I was trying a bit more of the "Tard" positioning a few laps, since I have the high bars etc etc.  But again, even when I thought I WAS kissing mirror, funny how friggin far off you really are when you get pix n vid back huh?  :lol: 
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/heathergln/TRACK%20DAYZ/FSB%20STD%20July%2009/Staff%20Pix/IMG_4459.jpg)

Hey, all I could do was stretch this old arthritic broken up titanium patched body as far as it would allow :lol:

I REALLY want input about how our body weight helps when off the bike-and then serious consideration put to fact that I am too damn little?  Sure it is not impossible, KIDS do this-but sure they are required more muscle or ? to make up for weight difference??!   
Frustrating becuz I SOOO wanted to pick my speeds back up to where they where before I scraped sidestand  [bang]  AND I am at speeds/consistency that body position/getting off bike IS very very important now.   TKS for input-I am NOT offended by any means and NOT here to make any axcuses.  NEEED to do this right!! 

oh and here is one of me after T14 coming up on straight so not so much off bike (SV), but here is issues on that bike-look at left arm. I have no more room to move upper body further to right without losing grip of left bar  [bang]
It sux to be a midget  :'( 
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/heathergln/TRACK%20DAYZ/FSB%20STD%20July%2009/Staff%20Pix/IMG_4743.jpg)

tks again anyone/all for advice. Please chime in some more!!!

Your body and head position doesn't look too bad to me. You could maybe hang off the bike a little more. You aren't carrying a lot of lean angle which suggests you aren't going fast enough to need it. Don't be afraid to tip the bike in quickly, if the tires are hot you won't come close to losing the front and you'll be amazed how fast the bike will turn, THEN you'll be carrying speed and NEED lean angle and VOILA!! knee down.

One other thing, seeing as you are kinda tiny have you considered putting a pad behind you to move your butt closer to the tank? being on top of the tank and bars will give you loads more feel, control AND confidence. You'll be able to keep your arms bent and loose and feel looser on the bike. Maybe it's worth a try?

Looking good though. ;)

comedy remark break for a moment.

maybe you need to change your track bike to something more akin to your frame and size like a Yamaha YSR50 ?!?!?!...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...I crack myself up!


J/K-> end of my comedy remarks for now!

Check out this thread with videos:
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=14555.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=14555.0)

Great vids, watched them few months ago, time for refresher  [thumbsup]  TKS!   


Zooom  [laugh]  seriously, eh?    I keep threatening to buy a fiddy  ;D  Shoulda taken the TTR out there maybe too?   [cheeky] 

Glad that you weren't offended and glad that you, like I, need to get it right. Learning is good [thumbsup]

At a certain/any speed it's required to have corresponding weight inside the tire contact patches to counteract the centrifugal forces.
If it's only the bike doing this - it needs to be in a given leaned angle. That angle will be the same if the rider is sitting still.
It will be more/too aggressive if the rider's body is resisting and/or twisted the wrong way.
It will will be less aggressive if the rider's upper body is hanging off INWARDS. The result is a smoother turn
with a little margin OR the possibility to go faster (because the bike with the help of the "hanging off" will have more lean angle available before it looses traction)

I'm not at all sure I explain this very well, but I try.....

Your lack of weight to influence the bike isn't stopping you from helping it do it's thing. Just need to be more assertive and hopefully get it right at the turn entrance - which is always a good thing anyway. Us bigger guys have an easier job correcting mid-turn what we did wrong on entrance, even if it sometimes looks and becomes messy.

A very big +1 on Speeddog's link. It shows the technique very well.

OK so maybe I need an explanation on basic physics here?   
In order to get a bike around a corner, it must lean, correct?    But, if I am allowing LESS lean angle by getting/hanging off bike, just what is it now that is getting the bike around that corner/turning???   

I am in need of LESS lean angle in order to continue at speeds I am comfortable/capable and used to going in order to avoid scraping that damned sidestand foot thingy.   Sooo.....I now must get further off the bike so the bike does NOT lean as far over, but my brain is NOT comprehending what, other than my weight (which you say is not a factor here), is then getting that bike around that corner/turn?   
sorry guyz, but this is consuming me AND specifically what is holding me back here a great deal now-on the track AND now I have concerns on the street of course.   uggggg   
THANK YOU again  [bow_down]

Yes.


The combination of the bike's and your weight - in their respective positions.


It IS your weight, if it's on the inside, that is HELPING the bike do it's thing without leaning over as much as it would have to otherwise. Less weight only means a smaller ability to help the bike - you as the rider still influence the bike a lot.

Are we getting closer? 8)

You are so very kind and PATIENT  [laugh]   Getting there and after a lot of thought, reading, watching vids and talking, actually understanding better.  I got it, just could not put it into words or THEORY, if that makes sense??? 
Now, to get out and "play" on the local "private track" this weekend  ;D 

Also occurred to me-where I thought it would be good idea to remove sidestand on Monster for next track event, decided NOT a good idea becuz it is, in fact, going to keep me outta trouble since I will feel it before I reach "maximum lean angle"  :o that'll prolly send me into low side.  THANK YOU AGAIN!!

let me add in some wording that might clear this up a bit I think as I understand and have learned it. Sport Riding Technique's actually has a great bit in there about this that I used when learning and figuring this all out on my 1st street bike which I named the Pizza Cutter (it was an '82 Kawasaki GPz550 with F&R tires that were thinner than the front tires on any modern bike<F was a 100/90/19 and R was a 110/90/18> )..the point of getting off the bike and to the inside is to change the center of gravity...when you change the Center Of Gravity towards the inside if the bike, it allows you to keep the bike more upright on the contact patch of your tires(which also keep hard parts clear of scraping and dragging).

Lets regress here a moment, unless you are running race tires or specially profiled tires that are of a more V shape, then you have a standard U shape to your tire. Those tires generally have the most contact with the pavement the more upright you are, so the point of changing your body position on the bike is to act as a moveable ballast and change the COG. With the COG to the inboard side of the bike, it allows you to stay on more of the contact patch and therefore have a need for less lean angle and keep more traction. This was a crucial learning curve for me with the Pizza Cutter when I was riding this bike wih bikes that were 15+ years newer than mine while on the street and I had to learn how to get the most out of what I had to keep up with those I was riding with. The leaning of the bike isn't actually turning it, the counter steering is by result of the whole process. The body position and lean angle just aids in how much or little input you need to feed into the bars. It also by result sets the weighting in the chassis which aids in how it reacts and/or upsets the chassis when you add throttle inputs. The way you position yourself to achieve this is different from bike to bike and person to person. The overall concept is the same across the board, but ergonomics dictate the exact way.

I used to catch grief when I 1st went to the track because I did it on my '01 street Monster at the track like I did it on my GPz on the street and it looked wacked out, but it was comfortable for me at the time. I had to figure out what was the best way to do it for myself on that bike and then re-figure it out on my track bike. I ended up changing parts on the track bike to best achieve the end result, which I couldn't do on the GPz and didn't do on the '01. The way I did it (as I'll explain for a right hand turn for visual) was that pretty much my left foot was on the peg with my heel against the frame with my toe pointing outward from the bike perpindicularly to the bike. My left leg was hooked on the bike across the seat with the back of my knee on the corner edge of the seat right behind the tank with my thigh going right across. My right foot was on the peg pointing forward with my leg and knee running parrallel to the bike also pointing forward  but my body spaced away from the bike. My ass was kinda hanging out in the breeze while this was going as as it was in contact with virtually nothing. The major problem with this was that my shoulders weren't turned facing into the turn enough even though I could "kiss the mirror" from how I was positioned and my head was looking through the turn as you are supposed to. This was okay for going slow and developing a rythem and tweaking and tuning things and relearning how to properly do it better for the different bike, but in the end, it also took changing some parts to better achieve the end result.

hope this doesn't confuse things for you and gives you some bare bones from how I saw things....

Nekkidchic, thanks for sharing your pics!  [thumbsup] I can see that the track is becoming your new home!  ;)  I wish I had my own private track to play on! I didn't start riding until I moved out here to Cali, but maybe I'll have to check out a track when I visit back home in FL.  8) Yup, born and raised in Hollywood, FL (yes, there's a hollywood there) and moved out here ten years ago.

I totally agree with what zooom and stopintime said, and if I may, I'd like to chime in a little. The physics of riding is very counter-intuitive and getting to the inside of the turn with your body doesn't make any sense at first. My basic understanding is that when you're turning the body and bike is effected by the centrifugal force that wants to pull you outwards. It's like spinning a five lb weight on a string -- the weight stays in an arc around the center while centrifugal force pulls it outward. Leaning into the turn helps you turn better and faster because the combined center of gravity of the bike and yourself is pulling towards the center countering the centrifugal force. 

Using more lean angle decreases the tires' contact patch, and therefore traction. That's why getting off and getting your body on the inside is better. You'll get more speed while keeping more meat of the tire on the road. Monsters have limited clearance and when you start draggin' hard parts you've reached maximum lean angle. The only way to get more speed is to get off farther. Like zooom said pointing your feet and using your legs to anchor your self is very effective. Your grip and arms should be totally loose. I really suggest reading Lee Parks Total Control. He explains so much in laymans terms so dummies like me can understand it  ;D

And you're not too small btw! There are gp riders smaller than you who do amazing things on 230 hp machines.
Dani Pedrosa is 5'1" and 103 lbs!  [laugh]

BRILLIANT and big thank you's all!

Nymph!  Pedrosi is my HERO lol  Been all over internet for vids of him btw  [beer] 

I am about to start a new thread (warning LOL)    Seriously.   Just wrapping up a NC mountain and Gap trip on the Monster and I have come to conclusion I am OUT-riding Monster.  There are some things I now know I MUST do to get more out of the bike and ride safer-street AND track.   
1.  REARSETS!   Held off becuz so damned expensive, but at this point will be worth every last penny.   Yes, I AM scraping shifter/peg.  EVEN when way off this bike. I am on edge of tires, wore my lil elephants off LOL  but still within good contact space.
2.  SideStand work:   ANYone wanna chime in here???   The big ole foot rest WILL be removed first-I have scraped this to hell on track and street.  Suggestions?

I cannot be only one with these issues-I have more vid coming to show how much I AM off bike now and still scraping hard parts.

AND, irony here: on this mountain trip, woman brought her S2R/800 and went DOWN on Gap becuz, ready for this?  Her peg dug in and high-sided her.   JUST what my concerns all this time were and she did this in front of us!   HOWEVER!  They also both lowered this bike AND rear sag/spring WAYYYY too soft!!   

THANKS ALL, getting there, but little too fast for the Monster LOL

Any suspension mods to your bike, NekkedChic?

Swamp-
the ONLY thing done is SLIGHT adjust of rear spring-took preload out/down, softened a BIT and did this only maybe couple months ago now.   Prior,  the bike was stiff as HELL. I could jump on it with all I had all day long and not budge it at all.  Now, when I sit, barely feel a give, but bike HAS ridden nicer.  Hard to imagine this teenie change could make a big difference, but do you think it is worth changing back to try? 

Have also had GOOD suspension guys/friends check it out at track and they felt it ideal. 

My new concern is, if I put on rearsets and cut off foot tab thingy on sidestand, sure they will give me more "clearance" but maybe they are working as "feelers" for me right now and keeping me from taking it too far outta contact with tires??  Just creepy to hit that stuff, and it skipped bike sideways on track in turn 8 last time AND now to see the rider with us over weekend at Gap who went down HARD becuz her peg hit/dug in. (BUT her bike is lowered and super soft suspension btw).   

Tks for patience again guyz!  Hope u do not give up on me here!