40,000k service due, so I tootle down to the bike shops were I usually pick up my non dedicated Duc oils and stuff for the service and grabbed the 5lt container of the recommended Shell oil for the DS and nearly bloody fell over when informed that that will be $98 thanks! :o
What?? You're shitting me?? The same thing was $64 7 weeks ago?? As usual, all I got was an indignant look from the sales person and some feeble, not very convincing reasons why the increase.....Pffffft! [roll]
That's the last time I'll be using that shop and Shell oil if that is now the "normal" cost. The greedy bastards !! A 30% increase is just plain greedy!! >:(
Had to go to Repco for some car parts and asked them about their Shell oil and could they get the bike stuff??
Apparently not!! Because, according to him the Motorcycle Industry doesn't want the likes of Repco etc undercutting them, so Shell wont supply these large chains. ???
Friggin' bullshit I reckon! So he suggested Mobil and showed me the specs book and in particular, the oil that meets the Ducat specification, and it is around $35 for 4 litres or thereabouts! [thumbsup]
I know what I'll be using next service! [moto]
want too cut through the bike oil crap , go too your local caltex servo by a tub of delo 400 then go on there web sight and look up there specs youll get a shock as i did , i was put on too it by a freind that works in oils , too cut through the crap its a diesel oil thats multi fleet that includes cars and bikes and also excels in gear-engine applications and exceeds all api specs for bikes , be running in my bike all sumer and love it gear shifts are alot easier , done a fair bit of searching and found other bike users have been using it for ages now , george on the old board was impressed by it and the oil test that he did , on net rider theres some good info , but the best news cam from a friend in the oil business that told all oil except diesel oil has sulfar removed now because it shortens catalytic converters life and sulfur in oils is the main anti wear adittive in oils so for any one intrested and wanting to save some bucks and get the best oil in there bike cheers bazz ps i wont be drawn into a shit fight about oils
The recomended full synthetic oil costs what you have quoted. This oil is ment to last the entire 12000km between services.
I normally use Castrol GPS which is a semi synthetic. I use this and change the oil every 5-6000km. You can get this oil from SuperCheap auto for around $45.
If you keep the oil changes regular there is no problem.
My two cents. [bacon]
Rob
+1 Bazz [thumbsup]
Thats pretty mucj what the fella at Repco said, he seemed to know his stuff. ;D
But this bullshit that the bike industry carries on with about supply of "BIKE" (Shell obviously! ) oils to only "bike" shops to protect their margins ("apparently"). Hmmmm, smacks of monopoly ?? [roll]
Quote from: DUCMONROB on June 02, 2009, 10:31:41 PM
The recomended full synthetic oil costs what you have quoted. This oil is ment to last the entire 12000km between services.
I normally use Castrol GPS which is a semi synthetic. I use this and change the oil every 5-6000km. You can get this oil from SuperCheap auto for around $45.
If you keep the oil changes regular there is no problem.
My two cents. [bacon]
Rob
Well, thats a HUGE increase in a short period of time ?? The Repco man said that it doesnt need to sold at that price ! The word he used was "exorbitant" ! But you can get THAT oil at bike shops? [roll]
Repco for example sells Shell oil and other Shell products so they know what the costs for the products are and he stopped short of saying straight up that it could be an interesting case of price fixing between the motorcycle industry and Shell. :o
Maybe yes, maybe no, but it wouldnt suprise me that the customer once again is getting screwed !? :(
Interestingly, I just bought a new Mondeo Turbo Diesel and it requires a special full synthetic oil that is only available from dealers (Caltex SLX Professional OE). When I took my car in the Ford dealer,they had no idea and were going to use the "red stuff" (Caltex Magnatec). It's not recommended by Ford. Long story but I made them get the right stuff and then called Caltex who put me onto a local distributor. He was able to supply the oil for $209 for a 20L container (smallest available). When I look at the specs it seems to meet or exceed the Ducati requirements. Not only that but they supply a range of brands at very good prices. So search for a Lubs distributor in your area and you might find what you need at a good price.
Quote from: DUCMONROB on June 02, 2009, 10:31:41 PM
The recomended full synthetic oil costs what you have quoted. This oil is ment to last the entire 12000km between services.
Rob
iterpendant oil sturdys have shown known brands of fully synthetic oils in bikes only last at most to 5000 kays after that there base polymers are stuffed , so what they are supposed to do is not taken into account on bikes but cars with larger sumps and seperat gear boxes so the rule of thumb is what rob said half your service time , one other thing about dello 400 15 w 40 is it is also designed as a stand alone gear box oil for trucks with internal hydrolick pumps so the must be fairly good too stand that treatment , any way hopes this helps some people and 5 litres cost 38 bucks just need too find a cheaper oil filter now cheers bazz
Quote from: bazz20 on June 03, 2009, 04:07:40 AM
iterpendant oil sturdys have shown known brands of fully synthetic oils in bikes only last at most to 5000 kays after that there base polymers are stuffed , so what they are supposed to do is not taken into account on bikes but cars with larger sumps and seperat gear boxes so the rule of thumb is what rob said half your service time , one other thing about dello 400 15 w 40 is it is also designed as a stand alone gear box oil for trucks with internal hydrolick pumps so the must be fairly good too stand that treatment , any way hopes this helps some people and 5 litres cost 38 bucks just need too find a cheaper oil filter now cheers bazz
I only stated what Frasers told me with regard to the 12000km between changes.
Me, I go with the change in the middle of the service range.
I think I might check this Dello 400 out! [thumbsup]
yep rob i know you stated that you change your oil with less kays just yoused your post to inform others that dont know, i change my oil before winter so thers no nasties laying in the oil while she hibernates for the winter cheers bazz
If you've got a spare couple of hours this thread will keep you amused.
From "tech"
All about oils.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1912.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1912.0)
Ok, better chime in here with Regards to the Shell Oil, I'm not defending the price, I think it is bloody extortion, but just some stuff FYI.
* Shell Motorbike oil is not distributed in Australia by Shell, it is imported by a company known as MotoNational
http://www.motonational.com.au/ (http://www.motonational.com.au/)
* Including GST The Shell Ultra 4t 10-40W oil has a cost of approx $67 not allowing for freight for a 4 litre bottle, I now have 2 full bottles spare(bought em at cost ;D) for when I do my next couple of services, after that I'm switching to a cheaper brand!
* Ducati dealers must to use this oil when doing a service within the warranty period, it's in there dealer agreement with Ducati Australia, some don't, but if they are caught, it is grounds for Ducati to cancel there franchise.
Quote from: brimo on June 03, 2009, 01:58:41 PM
If you've got a spare couple of hours this thread will keep you amused.
From "tech"
All about oils.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1912.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1912.0)
thanks brimo for that , i miss george :'(
Quote from: CairnsDuc on June 03, 2009, 02:18:52 PM
Ok, better chime in here with Regards to the Shell Oil, I'm not defending the price, I think it is bloody extortion, but just some stuff FYI.
* Shell Motorbike oil is not distributed in Australia by Shell, it is imported by a company known as MotoNational
http://www.motonational.com.au/ (http://www.motonational.com.au/)
* Including GST The Shell Ultra 4t 10-40W oil has a cost of approx $67 not allowing for freight for a 4 litre bottle, I now have 2 full bottles spare(bought em at cost ;D) for when I do my next couple of services, after that I'm switching to a cheaper brand!
* Ducati dealers must to use this oil when doing a service within the warranty period, it's in there dealer agreement with Ducati Australia, some don't, but if they are caught, it is grounds for Ducati to cancel there franchise.
Hmm, that would explain a fair bit ! When you are the only game in town you can charge what you like ! [roll]
All they are definately going to do is push customers away from their product when it just isnt competitive in its pricing! :o
I have noticed in a couple of the bike shops that I go to locally dont stock as much Shell stuff as they used to, particularly the range of bike oyles.
It certainly ISNT double the price better than some of the other brands out there!! [thumbsup]
Quote from: bazz20 on June 03, 2009, 05:57:39 AM
yep rob i know you stated that you change your oil with less kays just yoused your post to inform others that dont know, i change my oil before winter so thers no nasties laying in the oil while she hibernates for the winter cheers bazz
No offence taken Bazz.
Who listens to Frasers anyways? [bang]
Hmmmm, oil, prickly one this, like petrol, tyres, filters, helmets etc it's personal preferance and no matter what someone will have the "good oil" but at the end of the day as long as what you use meets the minimum requirements of the bike and you change it regularly, like within service intervals or shorter you will be fine. Of course, certain common sense rules apply, like changing oil and filter before a track day etc.
i'll add 2 things if a may though,
1. diesel oils, and they are the ones marketed and manufactured specifically for diesels have a very high detergent additive level and should not be used on high mileage engines, ever! on the specs too when you see the API (american petroleum institute) ratings you will see that almost every oil will list as an example SG/CD or whatever the rating may be, SG = petrol engine standard, and CD = diesel engine standard. These have moved on and are now something like SH/CF but you will notice that a SH oil that is primarily for use in a petrol engine will still have a diesel (CD or whatever) rating, just not as high as the petrol rating, and vice versa with an oil primarily for diesel engine use. essentially you can interchange them and they will do the job but putting a petrol type oil in a diesel will not be ideal. Bazz' mate is correct about sulphur as well, and makes a very good point, people should also be aware of the EPA markings on some oils as well, they have large amounts of friction modifiers to reduce emissions but they aren't suitable for chrome or nikasil bores and will cause oil consumption quickly.
2. I steer clear of "boutique" type oils, the major oil companies like shell, mobil, texaco etc. know what they're doing and if you think $100 for a tub of shell ultra is pricey, try buying some fancy race type stuff, from my experience it costs about as much but the profits go to sponsorship deals rather than R&D and just don't perform for a full change period. notchy shifts, consumption near the end of the cycle etc.
paul.
p.s, i worked in the oil industry once upon a time and saw more than my fair share of "smoke & mirrors!
Quote from: dragonworld on June 02, 2009, 11:48:49 PM
Well, thats a HUGE increase in a short period of time ?? The Repco man said that it doesnt need to sold at that price ! The word he used was "exorbitant" ! But you can get THAT oil at bike shops? [roll]
well that has to be the quote of the month!!!
REPCO!!!! calling someone elses price exorbitant! i thought i'd heard it all.
you know what repco stands for don't you?
R ip E very P oor C *#t Off !
paul.
Quote from: loony888 on June 03, 2009, 11:54:50 PM
well that has to be the quote of the month!!!
REPCO!!!! calling someone elses price exorbitant! i thought i'd heard it all.
you know what repco stands for don't you?
R ip E very P oor C *#t Off !
paul.
Down here in Frankston I've found Repco to be very competitive with Bursons with Autopro and even so called "Supercheap" some of the dearest places. :o
+1 on the oil stuff Paul! [thumbsup]
I dont mind paying top dollar for a product or service when it is obvious its the best and a cut above the rest! But Shell/Motonational can take a flying jump! [roll]
And the money I save I can spend on some bits or bling for my beast. (No, that aint the Missus!! ;D )
My son works for Repco and he can't even get a discount on oil (everything else is good though). So I guess they don't make too much on oil (compared to all the other stuff).
All of the major brands have a search tool for oil and I for one like to use full synthetic.
i new this would open a can of worms but just trying tell people there is a cheaper oil that out dose a lot so call bike oils ,went to couple of bike shops to day and super cheap as well to check up further on my own research i must have been hidding under a rock the price of oil has sky rocketed to out of this world 100 bucks for 5 litres mobil 1 car oil and the new mobil 1 is not for bikes now and the bike mobil 1 was 90 bucks for 4 litres and couldnt get it in the right weight only 20 w 50 but one thing i did notice about all the bike oils was the highest rating oil was api sl the same as delo 400 and dont forget delo has gone synthetic now , thanks loony for the info ,why is this oil cheaper because they sell shit loads and with diesels cars becoming more popular all the major brands are in competition not like the bike shops , as for high detergents go caltexs info line says when swiching over to delo only run for a thousand kays then do another change thats on high mileage engines ,i hope this helps cause im not paying 120 bucks to just change the oil and from what of found we can no longer rely on car oils now cheers bazz
Yep, looks like we are being "done over " again!? [roll]
We get screwed by petrol companies, cos if you want to drive/ride you have to pay the price of fuel !! :(
And these same companies are doing the same now with the other substance that vehicles MUST have !? ???
And of course, np government will do shit about it because the higher the price the better the GST take. [roll]
Bend over ladies and genitalmen while you get it in the chocolate starfish yet again! :P
Now where to get a bulk supply of oil ?? [thumbsup] ;D
what variety of shell advance was it?
Quote from: brad black on June 04, 2009, 07:41:28 PM
what variety of shell advance was it?
Shell Ultra 4. ;D
I remember when you could buy 5 litres of oil for the car for $15.
Oh those were the days!
Quote from: DUCMONROB on June 05, 2009, 02:35:23 AM
I remember when you could buy 5 litres of oil for the car for $15.
Oh those were the days!
Me too [thumbsup] Showin our age there ... [roll]
you still can - try any of the big dept stores or supermarkets. you should be able to get oil under $2/litre.
dragonwolrd - try vsx4 instead, it's much cheaper -$60 for 4 litres. and thicker - 15-50 versus 10-40. if you've been buying ultra 4 for around that then they've been selling it at about cost. it's been $23 or so per litre as long as i've had it, and back when i was at moto too i'm sure.
interestingly the retail for shell advance oils usually has the 4 litre pack about 20% cheaper per litre than a 1 litre pack, and they recommend bulk oil be sold at the 1 litre bottle price. i had this discussion with them years ago and noticed it again when i started. vsx4 is $15 per litre in a 4 litre pack, but recommended to be sold for around $18 (or $17, something like that) when it comes out of a 205l drum.
or use any of the diesel stuff. i was surprised how light the diesel stuff is - i thought it'd be 20-50 at least. i tried to get a drum of basic rimula x thru moto national (who i buy from) for my dad's farm stuff. they don't normally handle it, so would have been the usual hassle to sort and turned out to be about 10% more than he buys it for in 20l from the local farm supply place. almost the same price as the synthetic rimula x, which i can buy from moto national.
we had some ultra racing 10w-60 at moto we used in the sxv aprilias. very expensive stuff. i tried to get some through moto national, but no go. got onto the shell car oil people who handle it and they could give me a buying price, but not a recommended retail. if they gave me a recommended retail that constituted price fixing. so i asked them how much i should sell it for, and they said we don't know, we can't tell you. that's some strange shit.
he is some info
API
This is the more basic as it is split (for passenger cars) into two catagories. S = Petrol and C = Diesel, most oils carry both petrol (S) and diesel (C) specifications.
The following table shows how up to date the specifications the oil are:
PETROL
SG - Introduced 1989 has much more active dispersant to combat black sludge.
SH - Introduced 1993 has same engine tests as SG, but includes phosphorus limit 0.12%, together with control of foam, volatility and shear stability.
SJ - Introduced 1996 has the same engine tests as SG/SH, but phosphorus limit 0.10% together with variation on volatility limits
SL - Introduced 2001, all new engine tests reflective of modern engine designs meeting current emissions standards
SM - Introduced November 2004, improved oxidation resistance, deposit protection and wear protection, also better low temperature performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.
Note:
All specifications prior to SL are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date SL and SM specifications.
and if people are worried about high detergent oils ducati says in there work shop manuals to use a high detergent oil , you will notice in the above oil api ratings that as modern oils are being made there sulfur levels have droped and detergent levels have increased to the point now that there is very little difference between diesel and petrol oil , cheers bazz
Howdy All.
So this diesel stuff, my guess would be a it's a no go for wet clutches, can anyone confirm this?
At work we've been having some supply issues of certain Shell slideway oils, and been told about shortages of other synthetic products, wonder if it's a supply verses demand driving up the price? This has been going on since Feb.
And Brad you're not the only one who has had the odd Shell experience.
Cherrio.
Quote from: madalf71 on June 06, 2009, 07:52:17 PM
Howdy All.
So this diesel stuff, my guess would be a it's a no go for wet clutches, can anyone confirm this?
its fine in wet clutches , more people are running it wet clutches than dry cheers bazz
And now onto oil filters.....................
In a nut shell.. K & N . Its got the little nut welded at the end so you can use a spanner on it, instead of stuffing around with oil filter wrenches. I remember reading some report on oil filters and when it came to quality of the filter element and the construction of the bypass valve K&N was up there with the best, it was just curious that the filter inside was coloured red, but with that little nut on the end it just made everyones job a little easier.
Mmick
whats the numbers please mick k&n-----! cheers bazz
Quote from: bazz20 on June 07, 2009, 11:16:47 PM
whats the numbers please mick k&n-----! cheers bazz
I'll let you know.......
Mmick
Quote from: bazz20 on June 06, 2009, 02:50:52 AM
and if people are worried about high detergent oils ducati says in there work shop manuals to use a high detergent oil , you will notice in the above oil api ratings that as modern oils are being made there sulfur levels have droped and detergent levels have increased to the point now that there is very little difference between diesel and petrol oil , cheers bazz
that's true, but remember they're assuming you're using a motorcycle oil, or at the very least a petrol engine oil. what is a high detergent oil for a petrol engine is way different to what is standard for a diesel engine. sorry baz, but comparing oil developed for a petrol engine against a diesel engine is apples and oranges. I agree that you can use delo in your bike, diesel oils are usually a higher quality oil than a petrol oil due to the higher demands of a diesel, but their detergent levels are waaaay higher than what is used in a typical petrol engine oil, and that's the only reason i wouldn't use it in a high mileage engine, it would clean out all the carbon and deposits that have built up behind the rings etc causing a large jump in consumption. (typically, not always.)
paul.
Quote from: loony888 on June 08, 2009, 12:53:21 AM
that's true, but remember they're assuming you're using a motorcycle oil, or at the very least a petrol engine oil. what is a high detergent oil for a petrol engine is way different to what is standard for a diesel engine. sorry baz, but comparing oil developed for a petrol engine against a diesel engine is apples and oranges. I agree that you can use delo in your bike, diesel oils are usually a higher quality oil than a petrol oil due to the higher demands of a diesel, but their detergent levels are waaaay higher than what is used in a typical petrol engine oil, and that's the only reason i wouldn't use it in a high mileage engine, it would clean out all the carbon and deposits that have built up behind the rings etc causing a large jump in consumption. (typically, not always.)
paul.
[/quote fair comment but what are you calling high mileage, delo is also one of the low detergent diesel oils , keep talking please paul because all the info i can get on the cons and pros is all good for me because i dont believe in what one person says and im no oil tec so the more info i can get the better cheers bazz
+1 on what Bazz has said, I used to use the Shell, but now there is no Ducati dealer locally, so no more Ultra 4 for me when my small stash of 8 liter's dries up. No other dealer up here carry's it, what about other brands like Silkolene or Motul? still to expensive?
OK, I change my oil and filter every 5000Km and my bike has just done 22K (not high milage).
I just bought 20L of Caltex SLX Professional OE a full synthetic high detergent oil that I need for my turbo Diesel Mondeo which is very very very picky WRT oil (15K service interval).
So any reason I can't use it in my S2R?
Oh by the way I picked up the 20L for $219 at the Toowoomba distributor vs paying $100 for 4L from the Ford dealer.
OK, just to provide and update.
Still using the Caltex SLX Professorial OE with no issues. Also now using it in my BMW R100R that has 100 000Km on it with no problems. Oil consumption is zero, no smoke no rattles, sweet as.
Quote from: bazz20 on June 07, 2009, 11:16:47 PM
whats the numbers please mick k&n-----! cheers bazz
Sorry for the delay
Mmick
Quote from: monstermick58 on October 25, 2011, 02:57:59 AM
Sorry for the delay
Mmick
yer thats little delay [laugh] [cheeky] onya mick cheers bazz
Quote from: bazz20 on June 03, 2009, 04:07:40 AM
dello 400 15 w 40 is it is also designed as a stand alone gear box oil for trucks with internal hydrolick pumps so the must be fairly good too stand that treatment , any way hopes this helps some people and 5 litres cost 38 bucks just need too find a cheaper oil filter now cheers bazz
find a station that stocks 20L and its about $90 , caltex on mulgoa road penrith has 20 litre drums
there was a place at wetherill park but they closed up , supposed to be someone else local there that was taking over
but not sure as this was about 2 years ago
my car mechanic was using delo400 and i used to pay $4 a litre whatever qty i wanted
they have now changed to valvoline you know what i mean and i still get the same from them for doing my car services
cheaper filters can be found out of the USA
I checked out Caltex's site just now after the interesting read on Delo 400 and found this comment after the specifications information.
"This product is not recommended for motorcycle engines."
It may simply be Caltex protecting their more expensive product or it may be true. It may also be because the higher levels of sulphur aren't good for modern bikes with cats.
Food for thought nonetheless.
GK
Quote from: monstermick58 on October 25, 2011, 02:57:59 AM
Sorry for the delay
Mmick
check the link below in my sig. the KN153 is a repackaged HiFlo
Quote from: GK on November 28, 2011, 02:43:01 PM
I checked out Caltex's site just now after the interesting read on Delo 400 and found this comment after the specifications information.
"This product is not recommended for motorcycle engines."
It may simply be Caltex protecting their more expensive product or it may be true. It may also be because the higher levels of sulphur aren't good for modern bikes with cats.
Food for thought nonetheless.
GK
Heh!! I just wonder how many are still riding with their Cat Converters still inplace!? [roll] :o [cheeky]
Quote from: ducatiz on November 28, 2011, 03:20:13 PM
check the link below in my sig. the KN153 is a repackaged HiFlo
Thanks for that info ducatz, I have'nt seen HiFlo filters sold here in Australia (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) the thing I like about the K&N range is the little nut on the end of the can, so much easier to get the darn thing off.
Mmick
Quote from: monstermick58 on November 28, 2011, 09:26:05 PM
Thanks for that info ducatz, I have'nt seen HiFlo filters sold here in Australia (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) the thing I like about the K&N range is the little nut on the end of the can, so much easier to get the darn thing off.
Mmick
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Oil-filter-Ducati-748-749-800-900-916-996-998-1098-1198-Monster-all-HF153-/220903819974?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item336ee4cac6 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Oil-filter-Ducati-748-749-800-900-916-996-998-1098-1198-Monster-all-HF153-/220903819974?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item336ee4cac6)
I have been doing oil changes every 3000k's on my Monster. So the last time I went in to get some Sikolene Comp 4 which usually around $60 I saw some Shell HX7 on special for $32. It was 10/40w so I figured I would give it a try as it is a semi synthetic like the Comp 4 anyways. I can not pick the difference to be honest.