Your thoughts?
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/news/local/story/MO-Bikers-Could-Get-Green-Light-To-Run-Red-Lights/ZRMN-dHNXEaqTDblin5Kjw.cspx (http://www.nbcactionnews.com/news/local/story/MO-Bikers-Could-Get-Green-Light-To-Run-Red-Lights/ZRMN-dHNXEaqTDblin5Kjw.cspx)
Don't we already have the green light for this?! If you sit there through 1 and it doesn't change..you can go through if no cars are coming. I know I do!
Seems poorly researched....
QuoteThe biggest reason is that the motorcycles themselves aren't big enough or heavy enough to trip the sensors.
In North Carolina, it's legal to run a red light on a bike if you sit there for 5 minutes without it changing.
Once in a while I forget to check what time I pulled up to the line and have to estimate how long I've been sitting there. ;)
Quote from: Rameses on June 20, 2009, 01:38:25 PM
In North Carolina, it's legal to run a red light on a bike if you sit there for 5 minutes without it changing.
Once in a while I forget to check what time I pulled up to the line and have to estimate how long I've been sitting there. ;)
Riding through RTP you have to do that. Heck, sometimes you're sitting in a car waiting 5 minutes or more for the light to change.
Agreed seems vague but a good start at least.
Last time I went on red after waiting for it about two cycles, I got stopped by [leo] and had to explain myself. [leo] Sent me off with a warning. He explained that I can not do that and should go another way. He is required to stop anyone that goes on red irregardless. I did not want to try and explain that i would encounter the same thing likely at the next light and just went my merry way.
Minnesoa has a law that allows you to proceed after a reasonable time. I asked a policeman and he said after the second cycle it would be ok. Never been stopped but I have a light near home that doesn't change until a car pulls up behind me. I go through it fairly regularly,
For everyone who thinks their state has a specific exclusion for motorcycles, look it up, print it, and carry it with you. Many people think there's a law that applies just because they heard it from someone. Almost every state has their vehicle code online.
Here's Minnesota's for example:
Subd. 9. Affirmative defense relating to unchanging traffic-control signal. (a) A person
operating a motorcycle who violates subdivision 4 by entering or crossing an intersection
controlled by a traffic-control signal against a red light has an affirmative defense to that charge if
the person establishes all of the following conditions:
(1) the motorcycle has been brought to a complete stop;
(2) the traffic-control signal continues to show a red light for an unreasonable time;
(3) the traffic-control signal is apparently malfunctioning or, if programmed or engineered
to change to a green light only after detecting the approach of a motor vehicle, the signal has
apparently failed to detect the arrival of the motorcycle; and
(4) no motor vehicle or person is approaching on the street or highway to be crossed or
entered or is so far away from the intersection that it does not constitute an immediate hazard.
(b) The affirmative defense in this subdivision applies only to a violation for entering or
crossing an intersection controlled by a traffic-control signal against a red light and does not
provide a defense to any other civil or criminal action.
So Roseguy is corect for his application. Worth carrying that with you regardless.
Suggestions on how to look up laws? I assume there's a website, but google is being obtuse.
Quote from: MrIncredible on June 21, 2009, 08:02:55 AM
Suggestions on how to look up laws? I assume there's a website, but google is being obtuse.
googling "[state] vehicle code" works for me...
I looked up the NC vehicle code and I was wrong...
...you only have to wait 3 minutes. ;)
(e) Defense. â€" It shall be a defense to a violation of subâ€'subdivision (b)(2)a. of this section if the operator of a motorcycle, as defined in G.S. 20â€'4.01(27)d., shows all of the following:
(1) The operator brought the motorcycle to a complete stop at the intersection or stop bar where a steady red light was being emitted in the direction of the operator.
(2) The intersection is controlled by a vehicle actuated traffic signal using an inductive loop to activate the traffic signal.
(3) No other vehicle that was entitled to have the rightâ€'ofâ€'way under applicable law was sitting at, traveling through, or approaching the intersection.
(4) No pedestrians were attempting to cross at or near the intersection.
(5) The motorcycle operator who received the citation waited a minimum of three minutes at the intersection or stop bar where the steady red light was being emitted in the direction of the operator before entering the intersection. (1937, c. 407, s. 120; 1941, c. 83; 1949, c. 583, s. 2; 1955, c. 384, s. 1; c. 913, s. 7; 1957, c. 65, s. 11; 1973, c. 507, s. 5; c. 1191; c. 1330, s. 22; 1975, c. 1; 1977, c. 464, s. 34; 1979, c. 298, s. 1; 1989, c. 285; 2004â€'141, ss. 1, 2; 2004â€'172, s. 2; 2006â€'264, s. 6; 2007â€'260, s. 1; 2007â€'360, ss. 2, 3.)
Quote from: Statler on June 21, 2009, 05:50:25 AM
So Roseguy is corect(sic) for his application. Worth carrying that with you regardless.
God.... Finally I was right about something. I'll have to show the Mrs.
Quote from: rose_guy on June 22, 2009, 12:37:43 PM
God.... Finally I was right about something. I'll have to show the Mrs.
you know when it's a direct quote you don't have to point out the typos right? nobody would think you missed the 'r'
;D
we must have every state covered on the DMF. lets get all the pertinent rules posted up here, and then stickied somewhere.
Quote from: herm on June 22, 2009, 05:10:04 PM
me must have every state covered on the DMF. lets get all the pertinent rules posted up here, and then stickied somewhere.
Let me know when you are done with OH then ;D
Living in Ohio, what I have done a few times is turn right on red since it's legal unless noted otherwise and then take the 1st left to get back on track to where I wanted to go.
Other times I've waited for a full cycle of lights and then gone ahead and gone straight through red when the traffic was safe enough .
Luckily no [leo] has been around when I have done that.
The above pending law does seem vague to me as it is presented as it doesn't have an exact time limit so if it does become a Law , it will need tested in court so that it can be appealed to be clarified in a higher court . Dolph
Even the established laws seem a bit sketchy. I live in NC and didn't know about the 3 minute wait. If you wait 3 minutes and run it, but LEO only saw the run it part, how to you justify the time limit? I don't see an officer that witnessed you run a red light taking your word on waiting. I am gonna print that out and carry it though. I have two lights that I have to skirt through every night on my way to work. I haven't been stopped yet, but it can only be a matter of time.
A USA Today article dated 6/11/2008 :
Quote
In May, South Carolina became the seventh state to give motorcyclists license to proceed with caution after stopping when the device that causes the light to change from red to green doesn't activate, according to Imre Szauter, government affairs manager for the American Motorcyclist Association.
North Carolina passed a similar law in 2007. Wisconsin (2006), Idaho (2006) Arkansas (2005), Tennessee (2003) and Minnesota (2002), all have passed laws the past six years, Szauter said. Bills have been introduced for the same purpose in Georgia, Missouri and Oklahoma, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures and the legislative websites for those states.
I guess it is a little outdated. YMMV
Quote from: DoubleEagle on June 22, 2009, 05:51:39 PM
Living in Ohio, what I have done a few times is turn right on red since it's legal unless noted otherwise and then take the 1st left to get back on track to where I wanted to go.
That is actually illegal in most states. Something about avoiding a traffic control device...
Quote from: NAKID on June 23, 2009, 08:53:00 AM
That is actually illegal in most states. Something about avoiding a traffic control device...
It has been the Law for what seems 15 years here in Ohio that unless there is a sign that says" No right turn on Red ," you can turn right on red with caution after coming to a stop . Dolph :)
Quote from: DoubleEagle on June 23, 2009, 08:31:21 PM
It has been the Law for what seems 15 years here in Ohio that unless there is a sign that says" No right turn on Red ," you can turn right on red with caution after coming to a stop . Dolph :)
It's not the right turn on red he's commenting on-it's the turning around after. You're basically avoiding the light entirely, and he's saying that is illegal.
Akron has these nifty continuous right turn on red lanes. My dad about crapped his pants when I was driving his car near my house and I went through a red (in the legal lane). He was air breaking like mad!
I'd imagine a right then turning around would be similar to short cutting through a corner parking lot to avoid a light.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on June 23, 2009, 08:31:21 PM
It has been the Law for what seems 15 years here in Ohio that unless there is a sign that says" No right turn on Red ," you can turn right on red with caution after coming to a stop . Dolph :)
Quote from: MrIncredible on June 23, 2009, 09:29:42 PM
It's not the right turn on red he's commenting on-it's the turning around after. You're basically avoiding the light entirely, and he's saying that is illegal.
Exactly...
Quote from: rose_guy on June 21, 2009, 05:36:49 AM
Minnesoa has a law that allows you to proceed after a reasonable time. I asked a policeman and he said after the second cycle it would be ok. Never been stopped but I have a light near home that doesn't change until a car pulls up behind me. I go through it fairly regularly,
Northbound Crosstown @ Bunker Lake Boulevard?
During normal traffic I try not to be caught as the lead guy at the light, as there isn't a second trip back there. Holds up the entire line of cars. If I get caught, I pull up tight to the stripe and wave the next car up beside me. That works pretty well.
Quote from: Bigbore4 on June 24, 2009, 06:15:18 AM
Northbound Crosstown @ Bunker Lake Boulevard?
During normal traffic I try not to be caught as the lead guy at the light, as there isn't a second trip back there. Holds up the entire line of cars. If I get caught, I pull up tight to the stripe and wave the next car up beside me. That works pretty well.
Nah, I live on the southside. I actually have 2, 12th at 86th, and lyndale at 90th. The Lyndale isn't really a problem because the traffic is heavy and a car is always near. 12th has the same problem yours has. 1 loop so a car behind doesn't help. I have had cars follow me through the light.
I read through Ohio's code and didn't see anything about motorcycles being able to go through red ligts. [bang]
Here's Idaho
Title 49 chapter 9 section 3e
e) Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, the driver of a
motorcycle approaching an intersection that is controlled by a triggered
traffic-control signal using a vehicle detection device that is
inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle, shall come to a full and
complete stop at the intersection. If the signal fails to operate after
one cycle of the traffic signal, the driver may proceed after exercising
due caution and care. It is not a defense to a violation of section
49-801, Idaho Code, that the driver of a motorcycle proceeded under the
belief that a traffic-control signal used a vehicle detection device or
was inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle when such signal did not
use a vehicle detection device or that any such device was not in fact
inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle.
Quote from: VisceralReaction on June 24, 2009, 08:33:28 AM
Here's Idaho
Title 49 chapter 9 section 3e
e) Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, the driver of a
motorcycle approaching an intersection that is controlled by a triggered
traffic-control signal using a vehicle detection device that is
inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle, shall come to a full and
complete stop at the intersection. If the signal fails to operate after
one cycle of the traffic signal, the driver may proceed after exercising
due caution and care. It is not a defense to a violation of section
49-801, Idaho Code, that the driver of a motorcycle proceeded under the
belief that a traffic-control signal used a vehicle detection device or
was inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle when such signal did not
use a vehicle detection device or that any such device was not in fact
inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle.
That sucks. If you can only go after one cycle, what if it doesn't cycle? Some lights don't change at all if the moto don't set 'em off. You'd technically be trapped there.
Quote from: MrIncredible on June 24, 2009, 08:54:30 AM
That sucks. If you can only go after one cycle, what if it doesn't cycle? Some lights don't change at all if the moto don't set 'em off. You'd technically be trapped there.
I was referring to one cycle of the other lights . Dolph :)
Quote from: DoubleEagle on June 24, 2009, 01:11:53 PM
I was referring to one cycle of the other lights . Dolph :)
I'm saying some lights don't cycle at all unless triggered.
Quote from: herm on June 22, 2009, 05:10:04 PM
we must have every state covered on the DMF. lets get all the pertinent rules posted up here, and then stickied somewhere.
here, lemme help you out with that:
http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/state_moto_laws_pg1.pdf (http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/state_moto_laws_pg1.pdf)
http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/state_moto_laws_pg2.pdf (http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/state_moto_laws_pg2.pdf)
also other laws http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/laws.asp (http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/laws.asp)
Quote from: derby on June 24, 2009, 04:17:56 PM
here, lemme help you out with that:
http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/state_moto_laws_pg1.pdf (http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/state_moto_laws_pg1.pdf)
http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/state_moto_laws_pg2.pdf (http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/state_moto_laws_pg2.pdf)
also other laws http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/laws.asp (http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/laws.asp)
Great info.