Ducati Monster Forum

Kitchen Sink => No Moto Content => Topic started by: Monster Dave on July 08, 2009, 08:26:39 AM

Title: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: Monster Dave on July 08, 2009, 08:26:39 AM
Meet Russia's conceptual replacement for the MIG-29 and SU-27:

SUKHOI PAK FA:

(http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/2009/07/custom_1247008364792_SU_PAKFA_pic_6_01.jpg)

Should we be concerned?
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: NAKID on July 08, 2009, 08:32:51 AM
If it's only a Concept, I say we have nothing to worry about...
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: Drjones on July 08, 2009, 08:54:31 AM
Looks like the stolen F22 plans have finally been analized.

Worried?  Depends on if China has any plans to expand their empire or not as they're the only ones with the wherewithall to effectively deploy such an aircraft.

Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: spolic on July 08, 2009, 09:59:22 AM
Clint Eastwood is going to fly it back to America!   boo yeah!
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: Monster Dave on July 08, 2009, 10:01:58 AM
It does seem to share some similarities with this model by Testors from the 80's though:

(http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/TestorsF-19BoxArt.jpg)

Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: NAKID on July 08, 2009, 10:08:08 AM
I thought the Stealth fighter was the F-117?
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: Kopfjäger on July 08, 2009, 10:13:33 AM
Quote from: NAKID on July 08, 2009, 10:08:08 AM
I thought the Stealth fighter was the F-117?

You are correct Sir.  [thumbsup]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-19 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-19)
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: Grampa on July 08, 2009, 10:33:10 AM
Quote from: Monster Dave on July 08, 2009, 08:26:39 AM


Should we be concerned?

only if North Korea has purchased a few
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: ducatiz on July 08, 2009, 10:36:46 AM
Quote from: Drjones on July 08, 2009, 08:54:31 AM
Looks like the stolen F22 plans have finally been analized.

someone assraped the F-22 blueprints?
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: cyrus buelton on July 08, 2009, 11:44:37 AM
Don't the mig engines need to be rebuilt all the time?

Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: River on July 08, 2009, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 08, 2009, 11:44:37 AM
Don't the mig engines need to be rebuilt all the time?



It depends.  If you ever read "Mig Pilot" by John Barron, the author recounts the story of one Lt. Belenko who decided to escape Russia in his trusty Mig-25.  The Lt. talks about the quality of Russian millitary hardware--looks scary but is fairly unreliable.

The flip side of the coin is that the SU-27 and Mig-29 had a much better maintenance record, in spite of a freak crash by a Mig-29 at the Paris Airshow in 1989.

Who knows?  This model may be better given recent changes over there.  But I'm with some of the other folks: more worried about China and N. Korea at this point.
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: Monster Dave on July 08, 2009, 12:27:42 PM
Quote from: ducatiz-e on July 08, 2009, 10:36:46 AM
someone assraped the F-22 blueprints?

Not the F-22s but the F35's prints were snatched up by some cleaver hacker.
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: Kopfjäger on July 08, 2009, 12:31:41 PM
They can have all the pictures and blueprints they want.


They will never have "our" Pilots.   8)
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: Monster Dave on July 08, 2009, 12:33:50 PM
Quote from: kopfjager on July 08, 2009, 12:31:41 PM
They can have all the pictures and blueprints they want.

They will never have "our" Pilots.   8)

True  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: DCXCV on July 08, 2009, 12:52:35 PM
Quote from: Monster Dave on July 08, 2009, 10:01:58 AM
It does seem to share some similarities with this model by Testors from the 80's though:

(http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/TestorsF-19BoxArt.jpg)



I remember I had a Micro Machines version of that plane and also this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-47 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-47)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Sukhoi_Su-47_outline.svg/180px-Sukhoi_Su-47_outline.svg.png) which, according to the mighty Wiki was one of the two precursors to the Sukhoi PAK FA.
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: NAKID on July 08, 2009, 01:10:24 PM
Quote from: kopfjager on July 08, 2009, 12:31:41 PM
They can have all the pictures and blueprints they want.


They will never have "our" Pilots.   8)

True, but a lot of foreign nations' pilots are trained by us...
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: CMDRDAVE on July 08, 2009, 01:23:29 PM
Quote from: Drjones on July 08, 2009, 08:54:31 AM
Looks like the stolen F22 plans have finally been analized.

Anal-ized?
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: Kopfjäger on July 08, 2009, 01:36:01 PM
Quote from: NAKID on July 08, 2009, 01:10:24 PM
True, but a lot of foreign nations' pilots are trained by us...

Of course they are. They are trained by us but, they aren't us.  [thumbsup]

This I promise you.  ;)
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: NAKID on July 08, 2009, 01:48:09 PM
Oh I know, we show them enough to get by, but not compete with us...
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: Drjones on July 08, 2009, 02:54:38 PM
Quote from: XJDAVE on July 08, 2009, 01:23:29 PM
Anal-ized?

Engineer types  . .  alone . . . with interesting design schematics.   enough said.
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: He Man on July 08, 2009, 07:19:49 PM
Im not worried about anyone but the middle east. China? Theres too much of a connection going on between the two nations to start shit. same with the russians, when the country starts destablizing, then ill worry.
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: IZ on July 08, 2009, 07:24:55 PM
Quote from: spolic on July 08, 2009, 09:59:22 AM
Clint Eastwood is going to fly it back to America!   boo yeah!

Dammit..beaten to the Firefox reference!



BTW..watching that movie was pretty friggen cool on the big screen back in 1982.

Saw it a couple years ago and hmm..not so good with the effects by today's standards.

Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: DRKWNG on July 09, 2009, 12:25:54 AM
Quote from: NAKID on July 08, 2009, 10:08:08 AM
I thought the Stealth fighter was the F-117?

The aircraft that actually made it into production, and subsequently into the AF's inventory, was the F-117.  But there was another design that was going through prototype testing around the same time that borrowed heavily from SR-71 technology.  The latter aircraft was designed more as a stealthy high speed intercepter as opposed to the much lower speed fighter/bomber (ironic as it was used almost exclusively as an attach aircraft) F-117.
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: Langanobob on July 09, 2009, 02:07:24 AM
QuoteOf course they are. They are trained by us but, they aren't us.  waytogo

This I promise you.  Wink

I used to work near NAS Fallon and at that time at least, there were Israeli pilots there training us.
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: ZLTFUL on July 09, 2009, 07:50:20 AM
Quote from: DCXCV on July 08, 2009, 12:52:35 PM
I remember I had a Micro Machines version of that plane and also this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-47 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-47)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Sukhoi_Su-47_outline.svg/180px-Sukhoi_Su-47_outline.svg.png) which, according to the mighty Wiki was one of the two precursors to the Sukhoi PAK FA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_X-29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_X-29)
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: ducatiz on July 09, 2009, 09:12:17 AM
Quote from: Monster Dave on July 08, 2009, 12:27:42 PM
Not the F-22s but the F35's prints were snatched up by some cleaver hacker.


???
(http://www.takeourword.com/images/cleaver.jpg)
Title: Re: New Competition for the F-22
Post by: ducatiz on July 09, 2009, 09:18:07 AM
You can get a lot of explanations of who has the best overall fighter pilots.  The best way to determine that I think is to look at the selection and training programs, their equipment age and maintenance, and lastly, their retention policies.

Most military reviewers (i.e. Jane's) put the USA and Israel at the top two, depending on how you ask the question.

Israel has a conscription military, as most of you know, so selection for their pilot program actually starts around 9th grade.  Also, until recently, Israeli pilots see far more actual combat than American pilots.

USA has better overall equipment support and maintenance, but some would argue that because Israel has a "no mistakes" policy that iffy pilots get weeded out faster. 

Israel also does not have female pilots, which I don't know which way that cuts, if at all.