Can anybody justify spending $1500 for a Carbon Fiber Termignoni exhaust system...i know it includes a new ECU...is that where the majority of the cost is going? Why are they sooooo expensive...Is it the carbon fiber?
Quote from: LSD4me on July 17, 2009, 04:05:39 PM
Can anybody justify spending $1500 for a Carbon Fiber Termignoni exhaust system...i know it includes a new ECU...is that where the majority of the cost is going? Why are they sooooo expensive...
The Ecu alone is 1200. And you do need it if you're putting an open airbox or pods on it, otherwise, your bike will run like crap.
But if you do get it, you will see a 10-15 hp gain on your bike, which completely transforms it.
Side Note...Will the installation of the exhaust void my warranty?
Warranty would be fine.
my S2R1000 went from 95hp at the crank stock to 95hp at the wheel after my Termi system was installed. Some weight loss also.
the DP (termi) exhaust kit is like one-stop-shopping, vs looking for another brand of exhaust, intake filter, fuel mgmt setup.
also, if you have a newer bike w/the O2 sensor, the DP kit is more hassle-free to get running.
and, y'know, termi is blingy, so that's cool, too ;)
Quote from: teddy037.2 on July 17, 2009, 04:19:45 PM
the DP (termi) exhaust kit is like one-stop-shopping, vs looking for another brand of exhaust, intake filter, fuel mgmt setup.
also, if you have a newer bike w/the O2 sensor, the DP kit is more hassle-free to get running.
and, y'know, termi is blingy, so that's cool, too ;)
yup, to get it to work properly on the bikes with the 02 sensor you would have to buy other brand pipe ~1200 + flashing ecu ~200 + pcIII~300 + open airbox and filter/pods ~ 100 + dyno chart ~ 400 for a grand total of ~1900.
When compared to the DP kit ~1500 It doesn't sound so bad. Oh, and if you bought the bike from a dealer, you should be able to get them to knock down the price of those pipes about 10% if you buy it from them.
what bike do you have? on the 696 the DP ECU also gives you a higher redline and flattens our some of the low spots in the torque curve according to those who have it.
after installing my termi.I dont see red line anymore..8000rpm still going.but i dont really wanna hit 9k on my 696..
what is the price for the DP ECU alone?
Quote from: LSD4me on July 17, 2009, 04:13:15 PM
Side Note...Will the installation of the exhaust void my warranty?
every auto modifier should at least take a glance at this act
basically the factory can only void your warranty if they can prove that the part you installed caused the failure, and cannot extend it to other areas. aka if you did exhaust, and your suspension fails, they have to honor the warranty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act)
ex: "Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty.[2] This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions[3], and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives" the same applies to auto parts
personally id rather buy an exhaust separately and have a chip with a variable afr, the ECU is just a single remap, right? or is it variable?
Quote from: Raux on July 18, 2009, 08:33:10 AM
what is the price for the DP ECU alone?
I don't think I've ever seen one for sale by itself... it's part of what makes the difference btwn the DP slip-on exhaust, and 'full kit' exhaust
Quote from: LSD4me on July 17, 2009, 04:05:39 PM
Can anybody justify spending $1500 for a Carbon Fiber Termignoni exhaust system...i know it includes a new ECU...is that where the majority of the cost is going? Why are they sooooo expensive...Is it the carbon fiber?
Someone around here correctly stated "Termis sound like God having an orgasm, pets burst into flame, men weep, women's clothes fly off...etc."
A little help here?
Quote from: LSD4me on July 17, 2009, 04:05:39 PM
Can anybody justify spending $1500 for a Carbon Fiber Termignoni exhaust system.
Safety, loud pipes save lives [thumbsup] go get'em
Quote from: Raux on July 18, 2009, 08:33:10 AM
what is the price for the DP ECU alone?
Friend of mine just got one for his (O2 sensor'ed) '07 S2R 800. Including the wonderful Norwegian 25% VAT it was almost $ 1,400. Deduct 20% from that amount and you should have the approximate US price ($ 1,100)
It is for sale BTW.
It'll justify the money spent money every time you ride the bike afterwards...trust me [evil].
Quote from: AndrewNS on July 18, 2009, 02:35:33 PM
It'll justify the money spent money every time you ride the bike afterwards...trust me [evil].
+1
If you ride your bike 30,000 miles, the price tag for a continous smile on your face is $ 0.05/mile.
WORTH IT [thumbsup]
Quote from: rockaduc on July 18, 2009, 01:55:21 PM
Someone around here correctly stated "Termis sound like God having an orgasm, pets burst into flame, men weep, women's clothes fly off...etc."
A little help here?
That was Spidey who said it, and me that quoted him in my signature. :D
One thing to keep in mind about the DP chip though, is that a second hand one could very well be useless to a potential buyer. You need to check and make sure that any second hand chips had not been "installed" onto someone's bike while using the red key (if you have a bike with red key). If the red key was used, then the chip has been married to not only the gauge cluster of that bike, but also the code in those keys.
if you like the termi sound, nothing else will do for you.
others like the sound of other exhausts so they get that. it is all a matter of taste and finances. simple as that.
do what you are comfortable with and makes you personally happy.
Quote from: DRKWNG on July 18, 2009, 08:12:41 PM
One thing to keep in mind about the DP chip though, is that a second hand one could very well be useless to a potential buyer. You need to check and make sure that any second hand chips had not been "installed" onto someone's bike while using the red key (if you have a bike with red key). If the red key was used, then the chip has been married to not only the gauge cluster of that bike, but also the code in those keys.
The ECU will still work if not coded with the red key? That would be a bonus if I ever wanted to sell the bike with the stock pipes and sell the Termis separate.
if you want it, and got the $$, then just get it! cause if the $$ aint going to the exhaust, it's gonna go somewhere else. that's just how i look at it.
Quote from: jwoconnor on July 18, 2009, 10:02:53 PM
The ECU will still work if not coded with the red key? That would be a bonus if I ever wanted to sell the bike with the stock pipes and sell the Termis separate.
Right. You are good to go regarding separating them, or selling the pipes (or chip for that matter) later on as long as the chip is not coded/associated with the bike's red key. And of course, this only applies to bikes that do have red keys, but the S?R bikes all did I believe.
Quote from: DRKWNG on July 18, 2009, 10:20:54 PM
And of course, this only applies to bikes that do have red keys, but the S?R bikes all did I believe.
My S2R SHOULD have a red key but the PO lost it. I got a pretty good deal so I bought it anyway. I was hoping I wouldn't need it for the Termi kit. Sweet!
Quote from: LSD4me on July 17, 2009, 04:05:39 PM
Can anybody justify spending $1500 for a Carbon Fiber Termignoni exhaust system...i know it includes a new ECU...is that where the majority of the cost is going? Why are they sooooo expensive...Is it the carbon fiber?
Why hell yea! A Termi kit is the best thing since sliced bread? hot and cold running sex? You name it!
And that ECU is worth its' weight in gold, by the way.
LA [bow_down]
Quote from: LA on July 19, 2009, 06:59:31 PM
And that ECU is worth its' weight in gold, by the way.
LA [bow_down]
why is that? can you get your dyno tuner to custom map the ecu? i thought it was just a single remap,
im not sure how anyone can make a single remap that would be best on EVERYONEs bike, it just doesnt make sense!
seems one of those boxes where you can custom set the AFR at X different throttle positions would be the best thing in the long run
I know i must be wrong, but why?
Quote from: redial on July 19, 2009, 07:14:54 PM
why is that? can you get your dyno tuner to custom map the ecu? i thought it was just a single remap,
im not sure how anyone can make a single remap that would be best on EVERYONEs bike, it just doesnt make sense!
seems one of those boxes where you can custom set the AFR at X different throttle positions would be the best thing in the long run
I know i must be wrong, but why?
The kicker in this equation is that you need the DP ecu to be able to run a PCIII or what-have-you. You cannot use a power commander with the stock ecu.
why is that? can you get your dyno tuner to custom map the ecu? i thought it was just a single remap,
im not sure how anyone can make a single remap that would be best on Everyone's bike, it just doesnt make sense!
My bike has the full termi kit and I run it from 400 ft. elev. to 6000 ft. and the bike fuels flawlessly. I believe it's a little rich if I had the equipment to test it, but the bike is so smooth around town and just hauls arse!
The ECU is a must have item to satisfy the fueling equation - just pissing against the wind without it.
LA
Quote from: DRKWNG on July 20, 2009, 01:02:32 AM
The kicker in this equation is that you need the DP ecu to be able to run a PCIII or what-have-you. You cannot use a power commander with the stock ecu.
I haven't done TOO much research, but I understood the exact oposite. I was under the impression that the wiring supplied with the PCIII was designed to simply bypass the ecu all together so that it could be removed and taken back to stock more easily. Someone with more knowledge add in here, but what all does the ecu control? Ignition inhibitor, ignition timing (+/-), air to fuel ratio, O2 sensor, so on. The PCIII if properly mapped should control all of this with the exception of the inhibitor. Again, I'm just going on what I remember from my research last year and I don't know how the inhibitor is supposed to remain active, so somone else chime in.
QuoteI was under the impression that the wiring supplied with the PCIII was designed to simply bypass the ecu all together so that it could be removed and taken back to stock more easily.
not bypass, just pick up the signal, alter it, and then dump it back to where it was going in the first place. the ecu doesnt even know anything out of the ordinary is happening
most of the afr cards work the same way, and its totally possible (and hopeful) that the DP ecu is more complex
but most of them (or at least the crappy ones) are incredibly simple.
-you wire the box in line with the fuel control, the box picks up the signal, and amplifies it. On my car (with aftermarket induction) its a small box with a dial, and the dial controls the amplification
its simply a variable resistor, anyone in electronics could make one for a few dollars imsure
the more complex ones allow you to designate the ratio (or amplification, or resistance, whatever you wish to call it) at different throttle positions. hence the need for an electronic box, instead of the variable resistor.
if the computer knows how much you are twisting the throttle, and how much fuel its supposed to add
its simply not possible that you cant alter the afr with the stock ecu. unless the ecu bundles multiple signals in a single wire, which afaik is impossible as well. to add a PC or whatever, to an already custom mapped ecu is redundant. or rather, you are paying to have it custom mapped, and then remapping it yourself, so youre double charging your wallet for the same effect
just waiting for someone who knows the inner workings to slap me and tell me how im oversimplifying it, and why
Quote from: redial on July 20, 2009, 10:22:46 AM
not bypass, just pick up the signal, alter it, and then dump it back to where it was going in the first place. the ecu doesnt even know anything out of the ordinary is happening
most of the afr cards work the same way, and its totally possible (and hopeful) that the DP ecu is more complex
but most of them (or at least the crappy ones) are incredibly simple.
-you wire the box in line with the fuel control, the box picks up the signal, and amplifies it. On my car (with aftermarket induction) its a small box with a dial, and the dial controls the amplification
its simply a variable resistor, anyone in electronics could make one for a few dollars imsure
the more complex ones allow you to designate the ratio (or amplification, or resistance, whatever you wish to call it) at different throttle positions. hence the need for an electronic box, instead of the variable resistor.
if the computer knows how much you are twisting the throttle, and how much fuel its supposed to add
its simply not possible that you cant alter the afr with the stock ecu. unless the ecu bundles multiple signals in a single wire, which afaik is impossible as well. to add a PC or whatever, to an already custom mapped ecu is redundant. or rather, you are paying to have it custom mapped, and then remapping it yourself, so youre double charging your wallet for the same effect
just waiting for someone who knows the inner workings to slap me and tell me how im oversimplifying it, and why
As far as I can tell, you're completely right. The only thing I have to add or change is that sometimes, depending on mods, you do have to remap the bike with a pcIII.
The dp ecu comes already "custom mapped" or the carbon pipes + open airbox / high performance filter. But if you change any of that (Pods, velocity stacks, different pipes) the map that you have on won't be the best one for your particular system, hence the need for a PCIII and a further custom map.
Quote from: El Matador on July 20, 2009, 10:47:42 AM
But if you change any of that (Pods, velocity stacks, different pipes) the map that you have on won't be the best one for your particular system, hence the need for a PCIII and a further custom map.
exactly EM, which is why i think its a total rip to pay for something thats only useful in one configuration!
better to get a pc and have a dyno guy remap it everytime you change something fundamental about the bike
but of course everyone in the thread is correct, you DO have to do SOMETHING to change the afr once u start messing with airflow [thumbsup]
Quote from: redial on July 20, 2009, 10:59:58 AM
exactly EM, which is why i think its a total rip to pay for something thats only useful in one configuration!
better to get a pc and have a dyno guy remap it everytime you change something fundamental about the bike
but of course everyone in the thread is correct, you DO have to do SOMETHING to change the afr once u start messing with airflow [thumbsup]
Yeah, but the problem is that the stock ECU in the 06+ bike has sensor (emissions IIRC) that prevents you from modifying the map at all, and you cant change the ECU unless you get another from ducati because of the immobilizer issue. The DP Ecu does not have it, which in turn does allow for the adding of a PCIII.
It is a rip off, but there really is nothing you can do.
oooooooooh
i totally understand now. i have a 2002 and didnt know about the 02 sensors. what a drag!
another option for the closed-loop crowd is that fatduc manipilator... seems to do the trick, while being cheaper than going DP ECU. IIRC it fools the O2 sensor
Quote from: DRKWNG on July 20, 2009, 01:02:32 AM
The kicker in this equation is that you need the DP ecu to be able to run a PCIII or what-have-you. You cannot use a power commander with the stock ecu.
I have a PCIII and stock ECU
Quote from: redial on July 20, 2009, 11:47:43 AM
oooooooooh
i totally understand now. i have a 2002 and didnt know about the 02 sensors. what a drag!
you don't have an O2 sensor. mod away!
Dude just wait until some one sells theirs used. The prices from Ducati are rediculous for a sub-par performance upgrade.
I found me a titanium full system (cans only) for $600 brand new from a dealer getting rid of old stock.
Quote from: teddy037.2 on July 20, 2009, 01:20:05 PM
I have a PCIII and stock ECU
Yea, but your bike is not one of the E3 compliant models, and was released before the closed loop debacle came about.
Quote from: DRKWNG on July 20, 2009, 11:38:27 PM
Yea, but your bike is not one of the E3 compliant models, and was released before the closed loop debacle came about.
OP never said what bike, and redial has an open loop
OP has a 696
Quote from: El Matador on July 21, 2009, 08:05:32 AM
OP has a 696
I missed that?
well, I do suppose the "will this void my warranty" is kind of a kicker, anyway.
For what its worth, I went the Zard route for exhaust, had MonsterMash re-flash my ECU, and ended up getting a power commander anyway. All to develop about the same HP as stock. I also spent about twice the price of the termi full system.
Looking back on it, if you like the look of the termis, then definitely go that way.
OE numbers are often from the crank, not rear wheel.
after intake/exhaust/PCIII my 620 put out at the wheel what ducati claimed as stock hp/tq