Ducati Monster Forum

They're reducing production to keep inventories from swelling - U.S. sales are way down compared to last year.

This article was posted at FT.com:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/effbe60c-8697-11de-9e8e-00144feabdc0.html (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/effbe60c-8697-11de-9e8e-00144feabdc0.html)

Quote from article:

"Gabriele Del Torchio, chief executive of Ducati, said in an interview with the Financial Times that the market for luxury bikes had probably shrunk by about 30 per cent in the six months to the end of June.

The decline was most evident in the US, where he estimated that sales had fallen roughly 50 per cent."

CAUSE THEY OVERPRICED THEMSELVES!

this is exactly what i've been saying about Ducati. They need to keep making some entry and midlevel bikes.

their ONLY bike below 10k is the 696. they can't compete against the japanese and now koreans for the entry level enthusiast.

they used to have the 600SS, the 750SS, 900SS, 400 Monster, 600 Monster, 750 Monster and 900 Monster all priced at or below 10k.

understandably the SS due to poor sales (not because of price, but because of performance vs comparable Japanese bikes) was killed

Ducati NEEDS a least two more bikes below the 10k mark.
Having the 696 at 9k and then having to go all the way to 12k for teh 1100 is too big of a jump.
Bring in a 900 at 10500. or better yet, lower the 696 to 8495, 900 to 9995 and the 1100 (nee 1200) to 11995.
THen introduce an SS model. using the same engine/frame with a 500 premium compared the monsters.
AND don't forget to produce a lower priced Strada Aperta for those not wanting to spend near 20k for a loaded  tourer

I disagree.

If Ferrari started making a 4-door model that was priced like a Toyota Corolla, then Ferrari models everywhere would suddenly be lower in value. It would cheapen the brand altogether.

It sounds like Ducati is just doing what it needs to do to stay afloat.

And I think it's great that the Ducati executives are taking paycuts to help the company.  [thumbsup]

Ducati was SAVED by the Monster.

there wasn't a Monster priced higher than around 10k until the watercooled bikes.

Did they devalue the brand?

Making great bikes and keeping them within reason does not devalue a brand.

making bikes expensive does not add value to a brand it only makes them less obtainable.

Prestige is a philosophy, not a profit margin, and not a high pricetag.

Ducati racing heritage and top end bikes will always keep the value of the brand high. making bikes within the brand affordable for people to grow WITHIN the brand creates loyalty.

If Ducati only make highend bikes, then you would have new riders and young riders (and especially in nations with license limiting) riding other brands til they can afford or are able to ride a Ducati. those are all sales lost. and those are repeat customers.

Ducati is not Ferrari. and I personally hope they never are. Ferrari's are great works of art and machines, but for anyone other than the top echolon ofthe rich, unobtainable. that's great we all lust after them.. but it doesn't really  make a sale.

+1

Two words: Buell Blast

Please note: I probably don't know what I'm talking about!

CANNOT compare a Buell Blast to a Ducati Monster.

wow.

are you serious?

I suppose the low priced Boxster has been a deathknell for Porsche... come on. a great company can make a low priced GREAT vehicle without it being a Buell Blast.

I think Ducati should introduce an entry level Hyper...696 engine. That along with the Monster 696 is good enough for entry level Ducatis. Note: these bikes aren't cheap because of their displacement...they are cheap because of their crappy suspension and other items. A small engine costs as much as a large one to make.

The 848 is then their "cheap" SBK.

Producing a bike below $10K is very tough for a small producer like Ducati. They cannot compete against the big 4 due to their volume.

The SS market is dead. No one wants to pay for an underpowered, air cooled sport bike when the 600 Japanese bikes are so good and cheap. To keep it under $10K would make it worse, since they would have to cheap out on suspension and such making the bike a POS. The exception is if they made a super light, bare bones, SS with great suspension so the handling made up for the lack of power...that would bring the cost in a lot higher than $10K though.

...and you can't really compare Ducati offering bikes below $10K back in the early to mid nineties...inflation and all. The SBKs are already cheaper than their predecessors were!

I got the impression he is comparing the Buell Blast's role in cheapening the Buell brand - something I hope Ducati doesn't want to repeat.  It is sad that Ducati has had to cut production, hopefully the economy will pick back up and sales will increase.  If we are lucky the prices of new Ducatis might drop :)

edit: I'd guess the Porsche Cayenne and the new Panamera have a lot to do with Porsche's financial problems -

I have two Duc's but I think as of late Ducati has over priced their bikes. My S4RS with the 998 motor came out at $14,999 and that was the "S" model. Now........we have the Street Fighter with full Ohlins coming in at $18,995. Same thing with the 1100s. Too pricey, no thanks...

I'll go along with that. a HM 696.
and drop the SS.

but an aircooled motor in an 848 frame.. interesting idea!

You guys also have to consider the US to Euro exchange rate. The dollar sucks right now. You can't expect Ducati not to raise our prices accordingly.

Maybe the Buell Blast was Buell's idea of a entry level Monster. Ducati did it right. Buell did it wrong.

The SF makes the S4Rs look like a bargain

Every business around the world are reducing their inventories right now since smaller inventories means a smaller tax bill at the end of the year.

 [thumbsup]

I didn't.

No.

Relax already.

sorry. my MSF instructor rode one of those vibrators on wheels to show us what manuevers he wanted us to copy.

I truly felt sorry for Buell as a company for that thing.

As far as underpowered... IMO bikes have become overpowered.
I like Colin Chapman's theory.. light is right or something to to that effect.

And Ducati has followed that with the newer bikes. the 696 dry being 355 lbs was a coup.
An SS coming in around 300-350 lbs... wow, could you imagine! even with only 100hp.
 but I know, HP numbers sell. not that most people will ever use that.. that's why there are 500+ HP Mustangs on the street from the factory.

+1, great point to consider...plus inflated prices over time make S4Rs v. SF comparisons tough from a pure cost perspective, although I like the rawness of the S4R better. Interesting thread...

I think you just proved yourself wrong.

Porsche failed in its recent attempts to expand, and Volkswagen bought them out.

I mean, I don't think VW owns Porsche now because of the Boxster, but I wouldn't use Porsche as an example.

Ducati has some pricing issues I think. But they're a small manufacturer. Things are going to cost more. But you're also paying for the snob factor. The 'look at me'.
A lot of people are going to look at race results and go buy the Gixxer or the R1. They'll look at the dyno numbers n go for the gixxer or  R1. And they're gonna look at the price and save $4k over the 1198.

I love my S4R. I bought it used 1 year old for 3k off retail. I would never, could never, afford to buy a new one. Hell, I'm not sure I could afford to buy a recent model used one anymore.

i also think that ducati has priced itself out of a big segment of its market.
and i think a lower displacement hyper would be all kinds of fun.

+1 on a 696 HM.

As far as production cuts, they probably waited too long.

Just like the car market, consumers aren't buying.

It will hopefully help used bike pricing as the supply tightens up.

I think, as a "premium" brand, Ducati is out of reach for a big part of the market.  Just as BMW, MB, and other premium brands.  They don't make their money by volume.  They never will.  What they do is creating a premium and somewhat exclusive products that demand higher price.  They can create entry-level, "gateway", products that people with less means can afford - Boxster, MB B Class, etc.  But ultimately, they want the consumers to fork over big money for the big ticket items.

The problem for Ducati and Porsche is not that they are over priced.  Supply and demand will correct the pricing problem.  The problem is that the overall market is just not spending.  Toyota and Honda have the same problem, too.  The rest of the world is in the same boat.

Porsche is in the pooh because of a botched attempt to take over VW and a high-flying CEO

This is from LeftLane News

As for Ducati they definitely need 1 or 2 more models in the sub $10k price range

I do agree that Ducati need a few more "gateway" products to get people hooked to the brand.  Ducati has built a very loyal and devoted followers.  A few more bikes under 10K would create a bigger pipeline for future Ducatisti's. 

It would also help if they could shed their image of unreliable maintenance hogs, with over priced, unobtainable parts.

That is hard to do, since this is an Italian brand, it goes together.  Thanks to Ferrari and Lambo's the stereotype will stick, but to the people who do made the switch, 98% are 100% satisfied... [thumbsup] I hope that's correct... [cheeky]

Ducati is offering prices I'd expect to see on Bimotas. I'm afraid to even look at what Bimota is charging.


but in all seriousness, I'm going to keep on buying older bikes. I REALLY want a SC, but with the tank issues I'm not about to put dime one into an investment with such a known problem. I'll just wait for the right deal on a used 70s GT.

Not necessarily true - one US dollar buys .7 Euros right now, vs .68 Euros 12 months ago.  It's down from a high a few months ago though (.80)

There are, of course, larger macroeconomic factors at play here  :(

Cheers,
Adam

Agreed.  The Boxster did save Porsche and they were the most profitable car manufacturer until they lost sight of that fact and attempted a buyout of VW which backfired and now VW will absorb Porsche. Ah, irony.  Now VW will push Porsche prices higher still so AUDI can become equal priced to BMW & MB and Porsche will lose market share just as Ducati have.

My S2R was $7500 new and purchased purely as a plaything alongside my tour ready and dirt ready BMWs.  Ducati have priced themselves high enough that many shopping for a 2nd, 3rd, or simply a "fun bike" will look elsewhere. 

It isn't all about brand or performance either URAL prices have increased to the point that the only people buying them are people who actually want to ride & service them.  About 1/3 of their previous demogragraphic that included weekenders and shock/horror people who purchased a URAL as garage jewelry  ;D

I like the way we grumble about the high US prices - try to buy a Ducati in Europe, you will be really shocked. (I live in the US, but I am on vacation now in my home country and I checked out the prices... Crazy...) 

I agree with Ducati needing some lower level entry bikes. A 250 SBK would be a great thing. Priced around $5k. Usable as a daily driver and still sporting enough to hit the track. I know I would buy one. And as Lotus does, make a track series around it. Make it pretty much a "stock" class so it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to do it. How many of us would do it? I would! One East coast and one West coast series, the best X of each series goes to Indy for a club race before the MotoGP race.

And I agree - modern bikes are over powered. Here in the US we can afford them and can make use of them to a certain point. Other places around the world a 250 -IS- a big bike. Ducati has placed too much emphasis on the US market and 250's don't get a lot of respect, hence no engine smaller than the 696 now. If you look at India and China, two of the biggest growth markets, have tons of motorcycles due to the high cost of the fuel. While Ducati is a luxury brand ignoring those two markets would be a great mistake. A 250 Monster at a decent price might do well there. They used to make a 400 Monster.

Without knowing more about Ducati's global business it's hard to tell what strategy would work.

+1 well said.
The value of the 696, and any other hypothetical "entry level" product, is purely as a gateway product. The profit margin on those bikes is pretty darn low. I'd love to hear from Dave R or another new-Duc seller on this, but my local dealer will tell you he wishes he didn't have to carry the 848, as the margins just aren't there.
Duc could make a small displacement Hyper, but it wouldn't justify itself with high profits - it might even wind up as a loss leader. Duc just needs to ride this out, same as all the other manufacturers. And I agree with Randimus - they probably should have cut production earlier.

I want Ducati to bring back the single cylinder scrambler.  Put me down for a 450.

Which it is.  The S4R or Rs is a great bike.  Even the S2R is an astounding, real world usable bike.  The 696 and 1100 continue that lineage, aesthetics being as subjective as they are. . .

But I agree with a few points above.  Ducati shouldn't be going downmarket, since it would cheapen the brand.  What they need to do while getting caught in this economic downturn is FOCUS.

Where does the Streetfighter fit in the Ducati lineup without taking away from the Monster line or the 1198/848 line?  It's not a bargain exactly.

The Desmosedici is an astounding piece of technology and engineering, and I bet they sold every one. . . . but in both of these cases, were internal resources used, budgets allocated at the expense of keeping Ducati on track as far as what it needs to be as a company?  Did the 696 for another example need "skins" because that detail seems a little JC Whitney than Ducati to me.

And God knows that a BMW GS competitor would only muddy the waters even further. . . as it's been rumored.

Until the economy (and personal credit lines return to normal), people won't be able to borrow for a Streetfighter, much less a 1198. 

Sport Classics
Multistrada
Monster 696/1100
848/1198
Hypermotard

That's a broad enough range, IMHO to keep focused.  Then again, my name isn't on the building either. .

I hate to point out the obvious, but there is a segment of riders out there who think that these "entry level" Ducati's are more than sufficient bikes for the long term. I've been riding for over 20 years, and as soon as I test rode the 848, I had to have it, and have owned it for the past year. I'm now convinced that this is the last motorcycle I will ever buy, unless it gets destroyed, and then I will buy another 848.

My gf bought a 696, and she loves it when she can steal it away from the repair shop after they tell her that her CEL has been "fixed" (again). She's done with looking for a better bike as the 696 has everything that she wants, except that her particular bike has an electrical gremlin that needs to be rectified.

Neither of us look at the bigger versions of our Ducati's, and think we are missing anything from the upscale models.

If your dealer hates the 696 and the 848 because they don't have high enough profit margins during the initial sale, then your dealers are not thinking long term about having their customers as long term owners of Ducati motorcycles, and probably shouldn't be in business selling new bikes.

They can make up their profit margin losses on service and parts, quite easily.
And if a Ducati dealer can't get the owners to buy make-pretty parts for their Ducati, then they shouldn't be selling Ducati's at all. ;) Who here still has a bone stock Ducati? Anyone?

The real question that should be asked is how much does it cost Ducati to develop and produce an 848, and how much are they charging the dealers for the bike, and how much difference is there between those numbers, and the actual MSRP of the bike?

Then we can see how bad it is to be in the Premier bike business...

BC.

Yep. Cuz I'd throw the bike down the road before paying $2000 for a radiator  :-X

Point taken, though I'm not sure if an 848 is considered an "entry level" bike.  Entry to me comes into Buell Blast, Suzuki GS (though older), smaller displacement Ninjas.  Even a Suzuki SV650 or Kawasaki Versys is a bigger bike than entry level. 

Um, I think that ship is preparing to sail.  Like Porsche, Ducati is planning to boost sales volumes by selling a heavily street-biased "dual-sport" Multi.  (I doubt they'll ever use the term "dual sport" to describe the bike.)  And everyone knows that Porsche Cayenne owners and BMW GS riders seldom take their vehicles off-road.  (gravel doesn't count)

(http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/255862/images/01multistrada.jpg)

Despite their high price tags, bikes like the forthcoming 1198R are not going to generate enough sales volume to support development of the next generations of Supersport models.  Sales volumes (and revenue) grow by offering bikes that are accessible to a wider range of riders.  Even though we tend to glorify the 848 and 1198 rockets, there are many more riders in the world who prefer a bike that is actually comfortable yet still offers ample performance.  Hence the popularity of the Monster...

I highly disagree with this statement...of that's coming from someone who DOESN'T know what the heck is going on.  ;D

+1 with Michael, devalueing a model costs a company much more capitol than it would gain in marketshare. It's easy to produce shit. If you want that...Hyosung...etc. Give rise to an inferior product or way of  producing quality will benefit no one. Especially the ones who die trying to ride it like the old Ducati they owned before.

If you want cheap, go take your chances on another bike. But DO NOT MESS WITH DUCATI !!

They are the best (commercially available) bike made. Period. I don't mind paying for the best because the dividend return rate in peace of mind is priceless.

...and potential popularity of the new "Strada Aperta", or whatever it will be called. Slightly milder SBK motor, comfy seating position, great handling, decent wind protection, and luggage ability.

Could be a very popular bike if it isn't fugly...and way too expensive.  [thumbsup]

As far as needing entry level bikes, Look at H-D. How many sub-10K bikes do they have? How many over $20K ones? they were doing very well until the recent economic problem (which has affected all moto manuf.).

H-D is in a different fight for survival.  Other than the recent economic downturn, H-D is facing its target segment literally dying off.  Their struggle to find newer and younger customers will continue long after the economy recovers.  Currently, they only have one line targeting the younger crowd - the Sportster.  Even in that line, IMO, only a few models (ie Iron 883) would be appealling to a 20 something year old.  ANd I am not convinced that the purchase of Buell and MV Agusta is, or will ever, pay dividence...

Yes, but the Cruiser market is 50% of the total motorcycle market. It's easier to sell into that market especially with the loyalty & brand name they have. Sportbikes have a much smaller market. If Ducati had a smaller more affordable bike they could use the increase in sales to offset some fixed costs and increase utilization of plant & equipment. Now, if utilization isn't a problem for Ducati then it wouldn't make sense. I'm assuming that Ducati could produce more bikes with little need for expansion and I think that's a fair assumption. I high quality low displacement could help with the brand image (think of what the Ninja 250 does for Kawi), open sales to lesser markets and increase revenues.

True, but a different issue.


Ducati relies on brand loyalty as well. The utilization angle is a good point. It's hard to know without having more insight into the inner workings of Ducati.

The point is...volume isn't the only way to make money. Boutique is another way...and for the most part the one Ducati is following. Limited options to get into the brand...quite a wide range of options to keep you there.

I disagree on the high quality, low displacement. To be high quality it would be expensive...especially for it's power level, which would draw underpowered criticisms. If they keep the price low to compete with the Ninja250 and the like, then quality would also be low. Ducati isn't a large producer...they can't make very small margins on bikes, or break even/lose money on entry models to get people into the brand, because they don't sell enough of them...like the big 4.

Boutique is an option, but not one I would prefer in that market. Yes, it is what Ducati appears to be doing. It leaves less room for error. If a major Ducati model were to fail it could hobble Ducati.  And there is less incentive for dealers. Dealers like volume. They make about the same % of margin on all brands so a low volume performer doesn't get the attention as a high volume performer. A little sweetener, like a lower cost model, can go a long way with dealers. The higher price models tend to sit longer and cost more on the floorplan. If they sell well then yeah, the dealer's golden.

Without knowing more about Duc's finances all my ideas are pure supposition. They could be doing fine without needing volume.

As for a low displacement high quality version look at Aprilla. The RS125, a US non street legal bike costs $5500 or so. They appear to be selling well as they change it very little and have been selling it or and variations (RS50, RS250) of it for nearly 20 years. I don't think a lower displacement model would be the savior of Ducati by any means, but it could help pay some bills for them. I think it would do very well in Europe for various reasons - gas prices, MPG, licensing laws, etc. It might be a drop in the bucket in the US though - we like our bikes 600cc or more. It's a different place so it makes more sense that we like bigger bikes. It's much cheaper here in the US so a small engine isn't a real selling point here.

A lot of companies are doing the same, cutting production, locations, models offered, dealer network. Just a downturn in a recession with unemployment up, stock values down it's expected. I won't speculate or invest when things are tanked. Got my stock divident check today for $5.80 USD  [popcorn]

Boutique as in: Farrari (Owned now By Fiat)  ?
                      Lotus  (.................... Ford)  ?
                      MV      (...................  H-D)  ?

The list goes on. And that's sad.

R.P.M.  (if I have to explain, you wouldn't understand would puke) Tried to take control of the Ducati dealership where I was the GM.  Top 5 in the country...We decided to pass.

   

Not sure where most of you live, or what you do for a living, but how long do "Boutiques" survive in your town? ...Unless you live in So. Cal.  And that's questionable now. 

It's cool if you're already in "The Club", but it doesn't sell bikes.

The economic downturn is hurting every bike company... most people just aren't buying bikes.  Reducing production is just smart business.

However, Ducati is still around because of bikes like the 916 and Monster, both of which were revolutionary upon introduction.  Their current lineup is fantastic, but nothing "revolutionary".

I know, releasing a revolutionary product is really difficult.  But you have to keep brilliant designers around, keep investing in R+D, and keep having a willingness to try completely new things to get there.

that's why i think an well style, superlightweight aircooled SS with around 100hp would be a great thing for Ducati. NOBODY else is doing this.

say <350 lbs with 100hp
killer looking body work derivitive of the D16
and a price no higher than 13k.

throw in a 696 (or stroked 800) version for 9995

For innovation, Ducati needs to think a different direction than this superhighhorsepower war that's going on. Not that they ever would, but if Ducati started a second brand of bikes that would compete in the under 10k bike range with engine from 250 singles to 600 twins with trick body work and great handling, they might create a new niche.

WANT

+1

I also like the fact that everyone and their mother is not riding a Ducati. Keep them higher. Class has always cost more  ;D

A bigger threat than recession is the European goverments plans to kill off biking by stopping learners from progressing by huge costs of passing the test up to $1500 already in UK now ,delays for tests up to a year in Uk now....and learners being forced to ride with instructors on the back for up to 2 years from next year and a proposal to ban anyone below age 24  riding.slowly motorcycling will be strangled to death by bureaucracy and prejudice.

I heard Boutique bike term first with the Bimota using Ducati engines. Still Italian.
Must not be an american term used in motorcycles or the V-twin crowd building choppers would all be running boutiques.
A friend just bought a BMW G650 and the motor is aparrently a rotax design built in China.

gotta see that in writing. Europe has some of the best progression rules for riding and learning (even driving). Starting on small bikes with long term training (and they don't ride on the back, they have radio headsets and ride in a car behind) for lessons. The lessons cost and the tests cost but that's teh point. you tend to actually learn when you are paying for it and HAVE to pass.
Riding and driving are PRIVELAGES in Europe, not rights... it's the same in the states except we think we are born with the right. Despite what most Americans think the right to drive is NOT in the Constitution (kid's studying it so I threw that in there)

sure riding lessons and schools in EU have trained motorcyclists well but the bar is now being moved so much The nnew EU plan for instructor/passenger  only riding was published in all the news only a month ago and will be on statute by directive next year..the age related plans were also recently published by Brussels and UK wants to implement them even earlier..In Uk the Test centres are a shambles due to government mmistakes ..its good to train people but the longterm plan is death of motorcycling by bureaucratic strangulation. When no-one can ride in EU do you think Ducati,Triumph ,BMW will still be in business ?

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